[UNREAL] WBC Prez Supports Luis Nery, Does Not Believe He Was Doping

Yeah, and VADA follows WADA code.

But not its leadership, and is a separate independent organization. If you want overlap, that may be USADA but not VADA.

So you can't base exceptions in this body, based on the word-of-mouth in an entirely different body.

Furthermore, WADA is non-enforceable. They provide guidelines, and hope others follow it. People are free to form their own guidelines.
 
But not its leadership, and is a separate independent organization. If you want overlap, that may be USADA but not VADA.

So you can't base exceptions in this body, based on the word-of-mouth in an entirely different body.

Furthermore, WADA is non-enforceable. They provide guidelines, and hope others follow it. People are free to form their own guidelines.

WADA's edict isn't necessarily enforceable (of course, VADA itself claims to comply with WADA code), it's just the worldwide authority on anti-doping. VADA almost certainly would follow any suggestions made by WADA regarding any substance (seeing as they adopt WADA code). You can't just expect them to ignore WADA just because you really like Yamanaka.
 
He is most definitely a great of the Bantamweight division! I don't know what you're referring to.


Eh, I'm not going to get into the ins & outs of how guilty Nery is for being a steroid-cheating motherfucker, but it's laughable to call Yamanaka great. He was a very good fighter who was never, ever great.

Stack 'em up: Eder Jofre, Ruben Olivares, Manuel Ortiz, Panama Al Brown, Carlos Zarate, Lupé Pintor, Veeraphol Sahaprom/Nakornluang-Promotion, Johnny Tapia, Orlando Canizales, Jeff Fenech, Fighting Harada. These guys were bantamweight greats (or, you know, in a couple cases "greats who fought at bantamweight").

Yamanaka never beats any of them, ever.

Israel Contreras, Adolfo Zamora, Poison Junior Jones, Miguel Lora, Wilfredo Vazquez, Rafael Marquez, Timmy Austin, Khaokor Galaxy, Jhonny Gonzalez, Rodolfo Martinez, Sung-kil Moon, Nana Konadu, Abner Mares, Hozumi Hasegawa, Fernando Montiel, Joichiro Tatsuyoshi, Daniel Zaragoza...

All very good fighters, & not great. I think that I'd take every single one of them over Yamanaka, too.

We're talking about a division that goes back over one hundred years. Having a nice left cross & cool Animé-style hair does not greatness bestow in such company.

PS: Also, though he never won a title in this division, Toshiaki Nishioka was three or four times the southpaw Japanese counterpuncher that Yamanaka was, & head-to-head would stand Yamanaka completely on his head without any trouble whatsoever.

What does that make Nishioka, if you call Yamanaka a "great"? Super-duper great?

I'm not one of those curmudgeons who thinks language should never evolve, but to call Yamanaka anything approaching "great" is hyperbole, plain & simple.

PPS: Apart from SY's hair. His hair/'tache combo was truly great. Not as great as say Gushiken's Japfro/Imperial combo, but still, great.
 
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WADA's edict isn't necessarily enforceable (of course, VADA itself claims to comply with WADA code), it's just the worldwide authority on anti-doping. VADA almost certainly would follow any suggestions made by WADA regarding any substance (seeing as they adopt WADA code). You can't just expect them to ignore WADA just because you really like Yamanaka.


VADA could follow WADA if they chose to. But this isn't about the Yamanakas is it, you pulled out a quote from their honcho trying to excuse all Mexicans of having dope in their veins. I repeat, VADA is a totally private and separate group from USADA and WADA.

Nonetheless, lets say you're right. There is dope in their meat, drinking water, even radiation in the air they breathe. The fuck anyone else from the rest of the world should suffer for that. So are those items being taken off the banned list for Mexicans or for everyone? And when's the other lads getting their exceptions be universally implemented.
 
You wanna take a prohibited item off the banned list, you do it after the fact. Not retroactively.

No way how you try to split it, this was not a fair fight. If that drug was legal, Yamanaka was not given the opportunity to specially prepare for it, nor was he allowed to take it himself if he chose to do so. If it's legal.

These retroactive exceptions and rule-changes are pure corruption. Its creating separate rules for separate fighters.
 
VADA could follow WADA if they chose to. But this isn't about the Yamanakas is it, you pulled out a quote from their honcho trying to excuse all Mexicans of having dope in their veins. I repeat, VADA is a totally private and separate group from USADA and WADA.

Nonetheless, lets say you're right. There is dope in their meat, drinking water, even radiation in the air they breathe. The fuck anyone else from the rest of the world should suffer for that. So are those items being taken off the banned list for Mexicans or for everyone? And when's the other lads getting their exceptions be universally implemented.

It's not just about Mexico as it includes a bunch of other countries, as well, and what led them to the conclusion were several rigorous scientific studies, not just some whim. It's not nearly as simple as simply excusing someone with clenbuterol or a similar substance in their body; there is an entire process to go through before clemency is even suggested as an option. I don't know whether the WBC and VADA are going through this entire process (and I don't mean to suggest that the WBC isn't corrupt as they've proven time after time that they don't treat fighters equally), I'm just saying what the clear global authority on anti-doping has to say about the issue.
 
It's not just about Mexico as it includes a bunch of other countries, as well, and what led them to the conclusion were several rigorous scientific studies, not just some whim. It's not nearly as simple as simply excusing someone with clenbuterol or a similar substance in their body; there is an entire process to go through before clemency is even suggested as an option. I don't know whether the WBC and VADA are going through this entire process (and I don't mean to suggest that the WBC isn't corrupt as they've proven time after time that they don't treat fighters equally), I'm just saying what the clear global authority on anti-doping has to say about the issue.

If they want to remove it from the ban list, that's their call. Its all arbitrary at the end of the day.

But don't dare pass it retroactively and expect it to be anything other than corruption or favoritism. They want to lift it, then fine, it can take effect once they lift it. But anything before that due date, the rules were clear.
 
If they want to remove it from the ban list, that's their call. Its all arbitrary at the end of the day.

But don't dare pass it retroactively and expect it to be anything other than corruption or favoritism. They want to lift it, then fine, it can take effect once they lift it. But anything before that due date, the rules were clear.

So WADA is corrupt if Nery is shown any degree of clemency? Cool. Somehow I bet if the shoe was on the other foot (if Nery was Asian), you'd be lining up right behind any WADA guideline.
 
So WADA is corrupt if Nery is shown any degree of clemency? Cool. Somehow I bet if the shoe was on the other foot (if Nery was Asian), you'd be lining up right behind any WADA guideline.


If Nery was on the cusp of breaking a division record, and the first Ring BW champ in 30 years, then yeah.

Yamanaka was screwed out of his opportunity. If that was Nery in its place and Yamanaka was a dopehead, the shoe would indeed be on the other foot.

And if bears had jetpacks in their ass, they'd fly. So why even ask these type of rhetoricals?
 
If you want clemency, then Nery deserves a NC. Let both fighters fight again, Yamanaka knowing full well what he's up against and that he too has the option to chose if he wants to take said drug. Which he previously had no idea his opponent was allowed to.
 
If you want clemency, then Nery deserves a NC. Let both fighters fight again, Yamanaka knowing full well what he's up against and that he too has the option to chose if he wants to take said drug. Which he previously had no idea his opponent was allowed to.

I think that's a fairly reasonable way of solving the issue (if Nery can make a legitimate case for himself being a victim of tainted meat). Not the latter bit, but the NC and rematch.
 
Eh, I'm not going to get into the ins & outs of how guilty Nery is for being a steroid-cheating motherfucker, but it's laughable to call Yamanaka great. He was a very good fighter who was never, ever great.

Stack 'em up: Eder Jofre, Ruben Olivares, Manuel Ortiz, Panama Al Brown, Carlos Zarate, Lupé Pintor, Veeraphol Sahaprom/Nakornluang-Promotion, Johnny Tapia, Orlando Canizales, Jeff Fenech, Fighting Harada. These guys were bantamweight greats (or, you know, in a couple cases "greats who fought at bantamweight").

Yamanaka never beats any of them, ever.

Israel Contreras, Adolfo Zamora, Poison Junior Jones, Miguel Lora, Wilfredo Vazquez, Rafael Marquez, Timmy Austin, Khaokor Galaxy, Jhonny Gonzalez, Rodolfo Martinez, Sung-kil Moon, Nana Konadu, Abner Mares, Hozumi Hasegawa, Fernando Montiel, Joichiro Tatsuyoshi, Daniel Zaragoza...

All very good fighters, & not great. I think that I'd take every single one of them over Yamanaka, too.

We're talking about a division that goes back over one hundred years. Having a nice left cross & cool Animé-style hair does not greatness bestow in such company.

PS: Also, though he never won a title in this division, Toshiaki Nishioka was three or four times the southpaw Japanese counterpuncher that Yamanaka was, & head-to-head would stand Yamanaka completely on his head without any trouble whatsoever.

What does that make Nishioka, if you call Yamanaka a "great"? Super-duper great?

I'm not one of those curmudgeons who thinks language should never evolve, but to call Yamanaka anything approaching "great" is hyperbole, plain & simple.

PPS: Apart from SY's hair. His hair/'tache combo was truly great. Not as great as say Gushiken's Japfro/Imperial combo, but still, great.
I'm not going to say he beats the guys in the first lineup, because he doesn't, but in the second lineup? I have him beating several of them. IDK why you brought up nIshioka too, they're in totally separate divisions.

Yamanaka is no ATG, but he's definitely an ATG BW and he's definitely the best of the past ten years. And this fight should be N/Ced and redone. I want to see if Nery is a cheat or not. If he beats Yamanaka clean, then it'll be reasonable to let it go, but if he looks noticably worse? then it's going to be hard to believe him

One last thing (which hasn't really been discussed): Nery looked physically different vs Yamanaka than he had in the past. Maybe he's innocent, maybe he's not, but this is 1. clear favoratism and 2. it seems kinda hard to believe Nery since he not only failed the drug test, but also the eye test.
 
So WADA is corrupt if Nery is shown any degree of clemency? Cool. Somehow I bet if the shoe was on the other foot (if Nery was Asian), you'd be lining up right behind any WADA guideline.
I mean, Povetkin claims that the Meldonium in his system was while it was still legal (which is obvious shit), I don't see why it's reasonable to tear him apart of that but not to at least question a retroactive exemption for a drug when Nery failed a drug test.
 
I mean, Povetkin claims that the Meldonium in his system was while it was still legal (which is obvious shit), I don't see why it's reasonable to tear him apart of that but not to at least question a retroactive exemption for a drug when Nery failed a drug test.

Povetkin mostly gets torn apart for the ostarine he tested positive for after already testing positive for meldonium. All I'm really pointing out is that there is clear precedent set by the worldwide authority on anti-doping for clemency being shown to athletes who test positive for clenbuterol (or similar substances) due to contaminated meat. Nery might qualify as one of those athletes meaning that any clemency doesn't necessarily suggest corruption. That's my point.
 
I'm not going to say he beats the guys in the first lineup, because he doesn't, but in the second lineup? I have him beating several of them. IDK why you brought up nIshioka too, they're in totally separate divisions.

Well, there you go. I would happily bet against Yamanaka if facing any of those dudes in the second group. Whether we're talking depth of resume, best win achieved or the ol'-fashioned Eye Test, they're all miles more impressive than Shinsuke, IMO.

Your mileage may vary.

& dude, the reason I brought up Toshiaki Nishioka (apart from the obvious: southpaw Japanese counterpuncher with a lovely left cross, duh) is that he fought Veeraphol four times for the bantamweight title before moving up in weight, & was probably worth the decision in two of them. I think nearly fifty rounds at championship level in the same division is a decent enough yardstick, no? Particularly when those all came versus a far superior fighter than Yamanaka ever got in the ring with.

I would attest that his performances in (at the very least) the second & third Veeraphol bouts were superior to anything Yamanaka ever brought to the ring, & if he was facing Yamanaka those nights he'd've walked away victorious. I'd be surprised if Shinsuke could hit him with a handful of gravel, on that form.

Yamanaka is no ATG, but he's definitely an ATG BW

Just, no. I don't get it. I like him & like watching him, but he's always had a questionable chin, he's one-dimensional (left-hand happy), has a mediocre jab which he neglects, his fundamentals are basically awful (he pulls back in straight lines with his head in the air), he's terrible on the inside.

He has a lovely left cross & is totally committed to landing it. I get that, I enjoy watching him.

It's just utter fantasy to describe such a limited fighter with such obvious drawbacks & what, wins over one truly top-flight opponent (if we discount the 1,000 year old Darchinyan) as "an all-time great", particularly when, as I said, the division he's fighting in stretches back over one hundred years.
 
Well, there you go. I would happily bet against Yamanaka if facing any of those dudes in the second group. Whether we're talking depth of resume, best win achieved or the ol'-fashioned Eye Test, they're all miles more impressive than Shinsuke, IMO.

Your mileage may vary.

& dude, the reason I brought up Toshiaki Nishioka (apart from the obvious: southpaw Japanese counterpuncher with a lovely left cross, duh) is that he fought Veeraphol four times for the bantamweight title before moving up in weight, & was probably worth the decision in two of them. I think nearly fifty rounds at championship level in the same division is a decent enough yardstick, no? Particularly when those all came versus a far superior fighter than Yamanaka ever got in the ring with.

I would attest that his performances in (at the very least) the second & third Veeraphol bouts were superior to anything Yamanaka ever brought to the ring, & if he was facing Yamanaka those nights he'd've walked away victorious. I'd be surprised if Shinsuke could hit him with a handful of gravel, on that form.



Just, no. I don't get it. I like him & like watching him, but he's always had a questionable chin, he's one-dimensional (left-hand happy), has a mediocre jab which he neglects, his fundamentals are basically awful (he pulls back in straight lines with his head in the air), he's terrible on the inside.

He has a lovely left cross & is totally committed to landing it. I get that, I enjoy watching him.

It's just utter fantasy to describe such a limited fighter with such obvious drawbacks & what, wins over one truly top-flight opponent (if we discount the 1,000 year old Darchinyan) as "an all-time great", particularly when, as I said, the division he's fighting in stretches back over one hundred years.
Really? Against Tatsuyoshi? Gonzalez? Mares? Montiel? Even Tapia (whom I've always considered overrated)?

I agree that Nishi > Shinsuke. Still irrelevant.

I mean, there are plenty of limited fighters who are greats. LaMotta looks like shit to a lot of people. You could hear people bitch about how one dimensional Manny was every time he fought. They're still ATGs. I don't even think Vic is his best win (that would probs be Moreno I, which is one of those overblown "robberies"). Shinsuke, for all his technical faults, stands out on toughness (for entertainment reasons) and for the fact that he tucked away a reasonably solid profile of opponents for a long period of time. I don't see why he should be shy of BW greatness.
 
news
yamanaka is coming out of retirement to rematch neery

although published reports state
wbc turned a blind eye to Nery's actions and seemingly let him off without a punishment, despite reports suggestng that the amount of the chemical in his body being much more significant than one would have had just from typical beef consumption.
 
news
yamanaka is coming out of retirement to rematch neery

although published reports state
wbc turned a blind eye to Nery's actions and seemingly let him off without a punishment, despite reports suggestng that the amount of the chemical in his body being much more significant than one would have had just from typical beef consumption.


They didn't strip Nery either. Which makes me go... what's the rematch for?

If he did something wrong, then he should be stripped. But if not, then the rematch is pointless as well. You'd assume it was a KO that left no questions.

So which one was it, WBC?
 
They didn't strip Nery either. Which makes me go... what's the rematch for?

If he did something wrong, then he should be stripped. But if not, then the rematch is pointless as well. You'd assume it was a KO that left no questions.

So which one was it, WBC?

the fact is, because this banned substance is still used in some meats
in south american countries including mexico

some dishonest fighters like nery can get away with it,
and for some reason, seems like he got the benefit of the doubt from the wbc president (who's obviously on his side)
most non-mexicans feel neery is not the real champion, so they're giving both guys a second shot to clear the air
but yamanaka got the bum deal
 
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