P
Pugilistic
Guest
I was reading up about Italy during WWII and realized once again, how little I knew about some aspects of history. I learned that Italians in Japan were rounded up by the Japanese Kempeitai and put in concentration camps after Italy surrendered. Had no idea this happened and didn’t know the Japanese had their own version of the Gestapo, although the latter isn’t surprising. I also found out the Germans supplied weapons to the Ethiopians during their war with the Italians, and also to the Chinese nationalists that were eventually used against the Japanese. I also found it amusing that the Portuguese sold supplies to both the Axis and Allies lol. In addition I recently learned the Japanese and the Soviets had a brief conflict in 1939 in which the Soviets under Gen. Zhukov won! Holy shit there was so much stuff I didn’t know.
I was thinking in this thread we can briefly introduce a historical event that perhaps most posters aren’t familiar with and talk about which areas of history we are curious of but don’t know much of. I’m sure there will be some heated debate over the interpretation of some historical events.
I’ll start with the Korean war, which was a major conflict but I assume most American poster aren’t that familiar with due it being over shadowed by WWII and Vietnam in their collective memory. My highschool history teacher in the states didn’t even mention Korea when he talked about the Cold War although Vietnam was talked about in length. A lot of people in the States didn’t know of the conflict when I talked about it despite about 34,000 American soldiers having died in combat.
As far as historical events I don’t know much of but would like to know, I am unfamiliar with the Chinese resistance against the Japanese during WWII. What little I read of it makes it seem it was a clusterfuck of various factions fighting or siding eachother whenever it suited them, and it wasn’t quite as simple as the Nationalists and Communists banding together to fight a common enemy. I also am very curious about what life was like in Switzerland during the World Wars. It’s interesting to imagine the Swiss continuing their normal lives while world wars are erupting right outside their doorstep.
I was thinking in this thread we can briefly introduce a historical event that perhaps most posters aren’t familiar with and talk about which areas of history we are curious of but don’t know much of. I’m sure there will be some heated debate over the interpretation of some historical events.
I’ll start with the Korean war, which was a major conflict but I assume most American poster aren’t that familiar with due it being over shadowed by WWII and Vietnam in their collective memory. My highschool history teacher in the states didn’t even mention Korea when he talked about the Cold War although Vietnam was talked about in length. A lot of people in the States didn’t know of the conflict when I talked about it despite about 34,000 American soldiers having died in combat.
Of course, in Korea, it’s considered a huge historical event with the repercussions of the war having a direct effect on people to this day, especially since the war isn’t technically over still. Military service is mandatory for men (including yours truly) and you can see tank traps, barbed wire fences, and pillboxes litter the countryside. It’s quite the contrast from the first-world comforts South Koreans live in - eating live octopi notwithstanding - when you see the tools of war right outside the city. It’s a jarring reminder that we are still at war. The history of the war is also a battleground for an ideological conflict between the rightists and leftists, with both sides changing the narrative to fit their current view of the North Korea situation. Some liberal teachers teach students that the US was the one who started the war, despite there being no historical evidence that this was the case. As I’ve mentioned in my Liam Neeson thread, many in the film industry also spin a more sympathetic narrative towards the North Koreans. I’m not a conservative, but I cannot wrap my head around the pro-North Korean attitude of the left here.
To me, it’s a fascinating war because it was the first major war after WWII involving multiple countries and huge numbers of men. More bombs were dropped by the USAF on this tiny patch of land than during the entirety of the Pacific war. To my knowledge, it was the first time US and Soviet combatants engaged each other directly, in the first jet to jet aerial combat, pitting Sabres against MiGs. The only time Chinese and American forces fought each other in a large scale. Also the first major use of helicopters in combat zones was during this time. The newest American and British tanks of the time also saw their major use here, although the mountainous terrain made them more useful in providing indirect fire support for infantry. It was where the Americans and Soviets could “test” out their new weapons and doctrines in preparation for a potential war with one another. The US even toyed with the idea of using nukes against the Chinese.
This isn’t widely known but the Japanese were even involved in sending ships to carry supplies and disarm naval mines placed by the North Koreans. More direct Japanese involvement would’ve pissed off a lot of Koreans. The shadow left by the Japanese was felt as part of the reason the North Koreans were so successful in the beginning of the war was because most of Korea’s experienced combat vets from WWII sided with Kim Il-sung, because South Korea was more lenient with Japanese collaborators, keeping many of them in positions of authority after the Japanese surrender. Having Yaks and T34s supplied by the Soviets certainly did not hurt either.
One common interpretation of the War from westerners I’ve heard is that the Korean War was a civil war, and perhaps the US and UN did not have the right to be involved. In my opinion, this is a misinterpretation served to only villainize the US and its “policing of the world.” North Korea and the South already had two separate governments, constitutions, and militaries two years before the war even started. Not to mention the reason Kim Il-sung felt confident starting the war was because he had backing from Stalin and Mao. Foreign powers were already involved in this “civil” war before the US got involved.
In short, it’s a fascinating and tragic war, and it’s unfortunate how it barely registers as a blimp in the collective historical memory of Americans. The only Americans in the States I’ve met who knew anything of the war were those who had a family member who served in the war. The War Memorial (basically a museum full of pro-military propaganda) has a wall with all of the names of the American and UN troops who have died during the War, and every time I visit the Memorial, I make a point to pay my respects to the men who have served and gave their lives to this country that wasn’t even theirs. It was a great moment when I took my ex, who was from the States, there so she could find the names of her great uncles who died in the War.
To me, it’s a fascinating war because it was the first major war after WWII involving multiple countries and huge numbers of men. More bombs were dropped by the USAF on this tiny patch of land than during the entirety of the Pacific war. To my knowledge, it was the first time US and Soviet combatants engaged each other directly, in the first jet to jet aerial combat, pitting Sabres against MiGs. The only time Chinese and American forces fought each other in a large scale. Also the first major use of helicopters in combat zones was during this time. The newest American and British tanks of the time also saw their major use here, although the mountainous terrain made them more useful in providing indirect fire support for infantry. It was where the Americans and Soviets could “test” out their new weapons and doctrines in preparation for a potential war with one another. The US even toyed with the idea of using nukes against the Chinese.
This isn’t widely known but the Japanese were even involved in sending ships to carry supplies and disarm naval mines placed by the North Koreans. More direct Japanese involvement would’ve pissed off a lot of Koreans. The shadow left by the Japanese was felt as part of the reason the North Koreans were so successful in the beginning of the war was because most of Korea’s experienced combat vets from WWII sided with Kim Il-sung, because South Korea was more lenient with Japanese collaborators, keeping many of them in positions of authority after the Japanese surrender. Having Yaks and T34s supplied by the Soviets certainly did not hurt either.
One common interpretation of the War from westerners I’ve heard is that the Korean War was a civil war, and perhaps the US and UN did not have the right to be involved. In my opinion, this is a misinterpretation served to only villainize the US and its “policing of the world.” North Korea and the South already had two separate governments, constitutions, and militaries two years before the war even started. Not to mention the reason Kim Il-sung felt confident starting the war was because he had backing from Stalin and Mao. Foreign powers were already involved in this “civil” war before the US got involved.
In short, it’s a fascinating and tragic war, and it’s unfortunate how it barely registers as a blimp in the collective historical memory of Americans. The only Americans in the States I’ve met who knew anything of the war were those who had a family member who served in the war. The War Memorial (basically a museum full of pro-military propaganda) has a wall with all of the names of the American and UN troops who have died during the War, and every time I visit the Memorial, I make a point to pay my respects to the men who have served and gave their lives to this country that wasn’t even theirs. It was a great moment when I took my ex, who was from the States, there so she could find the names of her great uncles who died in the War.
As far as historical events I don’t know much of but would like to know, I am unfamiliar with the Chinese resistance against the Japanese during WWII. What little I read of it makes it seem it was a clusterfuck of various factions fighting or siding eachother whenever it suited them, and it wasn’t quite as simple as the Nationalists and Communists banding together to fight a common enemy. I also am very curious about what life was like in Switzerland during the World Wars. It’s interesting to imagine the Swiss continuing their normal lives while world wars are erupting right outside their doorstep.
