"UFC

[Mau]

I think TUF has been played out at this point. The main purpose of it was to draw attention to mma and the UFC, which it did, very effectively.
It still could function as an pre-view of up and coming prospects, but the idea of a reality show focusing not so much on talent but on bro's and meatheads acting crazy because of being cooped up in a house for a couple of months, is pretty much done. I'm guessing the next one will do better, but then if they don't change the production or something, it's just gonna keep declining until it's not worth it anymore.

It is what it is, a tv reality show, it has the same purpose of big brother, keeping dumb people in front of the tv. Most people grow tired of this shit with time, it shouldn't even be put into account.

 

[Polish Punisher]

Because they are bringing women's MMA to the UFC when there is no talent pool and nobody wants to watch it.

Even worse they are screwing over top ranked men to have women headline a PPV.

 

[Bleedforme**]

Started to read then...

tldr

 

[flanellograf]

Those threads are littered with the type of people I speak of.

I know that was the thread, and nothing it shows was something I didn't already explain.

All numbers for 155 at this point is speculation. In fact that's what all the numbers are, but that's all we have to go off of.

Are you purposefully trying not to get the point, or are you really just that dense? The point was: Even if they did worse (which is unlikely), they still did PRETTY FUCKING WELL, considering all other factors I mentioned.

 

[flanellograf]

It is what it is, a tv reality show, it has the same purpose of big brother, keeping dumb people in front of the tv. Most people grow tired of this shit with time, it shouldn't even be put into account.

Well, I was just saying that initially it had a lot to do with the success of the UFC, but now, yes, it is pretty much irrelevant.

 

[flanellograf]

Because they are bringing women's MMA to the UFC when there is no talent pool and nobody wants to watch it.

Even worse they are screwing over top ranked men to have women headline a PPV.

Then why did the women, Ronda specifically, do so well in Strikeforce?
They are still trying to build the sport and expand. Why do you think they are going into other markets so aggressively. There still is a world out there of untapped potential and interest.

 

[Mau]

Well, I was just saying that initially it had a lot to do with the success of the UFC, but now, yes, it is pretty much irrelevant.

I agree with you, it's just funny to see people bring up tuf ratings to show that the UFC is "dying" lol

 

[Bargey]

All I read was "Dana sucks....blah, blah, blah....Dana sucks...."

Sad when a piece of so called journalism is so transparently biased.

 

[Free your mind]

While I agree like most posters that the UFC is far from being in "bad shape" I still think that if the ufc is going to be the promotion that truly brings mma into the mainstream, it needs a major overhaul.

First and foremost tuf needs to be scrapped. In its place could be a show, showcasing up and coming fighters competing in a state by state format. Dana and co. are "gassing out" trying to make every card a blockbuster, attending every event, and pulling fighters from a shallow talent pool.

Why not have state and national level events? Simply meaning that winning a state title qualities you to enter the national ufc events. This would have several obvious advantages.

-First and foremost the ufc would be able to televise however many cards they want.

-Fighters would have a clear path into the big show, as it stands now there are probably hundreds of fighters that are more deserving of being in the ufc than some of the bums that are in there now.

-The "national" ufc would have an unlimited pool of fighters to pull from.

-Hopefully state level events would generate fans and support from each fighters home state, thus generating more fans in general.

Anyone who follows their local mma scence knows that these smaller shows can put on fights that are every bit as exciting as a ufc card. Why not pull the best fighters from the local shows and showcase them on televised state level ufc events?

 

[Mau]

Because they are bringing women's MMA to the UFC when there is no talent pool and nobody wants to watch it.

Even worse they are screwing over top ranked men to have women headline a PPV.

Ronda outdrew all the other SF champions including the HW GP finale. It's too much for your "nobody".

 

[JayElectra]

Then why did the women, Ronda specifically, do so well in Strikeforce?
They are still trying to build the sport and expand. Why do you think they are going into other markets so aggressively. There still is a world out there of untapped potential and interest.

Women's MMA should probably be allowed to grow organically. Realistically, it is right back to the Carano days where the whole sport is based on one woman (except Rousey is obviously a better fighter). The talent pool is pretty pathetic and there has never been an audience for females fighting each other. Hell, in boxing, maybe the most famous man in the world's good looking and charismatic daughter couldn't make the sport any more than a gimmick on the big stage and the talent pool for women's boxing is exponentially bigger than it is for MMA (and there is actually an ammie program).

Not that it is the reason for the UFC's lukewarm reception as of late, but I don't think it makes a lot sense. Time will tell, though.

 

[rosettastoned]

"given the public’s lamentable lack of interest in smaller fighters. Increasing the number of cards by nearly one-third in two years, and staging more bouts featuring either lower-quality or less-appealing fighters, makes for an inferior product"

Sick Ravden on this guy.

 

[ocfightfan]

The problem with Rios is that seems to go out his way to be negative, and a rude egotistical ass about it.

 

[flanellograf]

Women's MMA should probably be allowed to grow organically. Realistically, it is right back to the Carano days where the whole sport is based on one woman (except Rousey is obviously a better fighter). The talent pool is pretty pathetic and there has never been an audience for females fighting each other. Hell, in boxing, maybe the most famous man in the world's good looking and charismatic daughter couldn't make the sport any more than a gimmick on the big stage and the talent pool for women's boxing is exponentially bigger than it is for MMA (and there is actually an ammie program).

Not that it is the reason for the UFC's lukewarm reception as of late, but I don't think it makes a lot sense. Time will tell, though.

The comparison with boxing is a bit flawed though, because boxing has an older audience on average, and tolerance for women fighting should be a lot higher today than it used to be, considering what kids today are used to. Also, boxing relies more on fast-twitch muscle which women are not genetically gifted with, so females boxing won't ever look as skilled as men in general. Women grappling, might. There also never was a uniform platform such as the UFC for promoting women with boxing being so fragmented as it is.

With that said, yes it is still shallow, but I'm guessing that Ronda being such an extraordinary talent and front figure, and she already is opening doors in mainstream media that were previously closed, it might not be premature to try the waters now.

 

[koquerelle]

IMO, the UFC tries waaaay to hard to impress the casual viewers (fuck them).

They need to stop with all the BS marketing and cater to it's hardcore fans.

Youre either in or outside the fence(pun intended).

I agree with you, but businessmen are totally obsessed with new fans. The NHL doesn't care about you if you're already a fan. The UFC seems to be going that route too.

 

[JayElectra]

The comparison with boxing is a bit flawed though, because boxing has an older audience on average, and tolerance for women fighting should be a lot higher today than it used to be, considering what kids today are used to. Also, boxing relies more on fast-twitch muscle which women are not genetically gifted with, so females boxing won't ever look as skilled as men in general. Women grappling, might. There also never was a uniform platform such as the UFC for promoting women with boxing being so fragmented as it is.

With that said, yes it is still shallow, but I'm guessing that Ronda being such an extraordinary talent and front figure, and she already is opening doors in mainstream media that were previously closed, it might not be premature to try the waters now.

I don't see there ever being a significant amount of people that want to watch women fight. Also, when some of these female olympic wrestlers progress a bit, I can see the UFC being hesitant to put Rousey in there with them (unless her striking really has improved).

 

[emperor]

Oh look everyone, Tomas Rios is calling doomsday on the UFC again.

 

[flanellograf]

I don't see there ever being a significant amount of people that want to watch women fight. Also, when some of these female olympic wrestlers progress a bit, I can see the UFC being hesitant to put Rousey in there with them (unless her striking really has improved).

Maybe not, as you said, time will tell. Women are probably only going to be one fight per card, max, for the foreseeable future, so it won't be much of an issue yet.
And from what I understand, and if you are to believe Coenen and Carmouche, a lot of women actually get hooked on mma because they see women doing it and having success.

I don't really see the McManns of the world being much of a problem. I mean, sure, they have a great base, but you still need to have a shitload of training to defend the trips/throws and gazillion different setups for the armbar that she has. McMann hasn't done anything remotely impressive yet that would lead me to think she poses much of a threat. Rousey also trains her striking to set up her takedowns and subs.

 

[JayElectra]

Maybe not, as you said, time will tell. Women are probably only going to be one fight per card, max, for the foreseeable future, so it won't be much of an issue yet.
And from what I understand, and if you are to believe Coenen and Carmouche, a lot of women actually get hooked on mma because they see women doing it and having success.

I don't really see the McManns of the world being much of a problem. I mean, sure, they have a great base, but you still need to have a shitload of training to defend the trips/throws and gazillion different setups for the armbar that she has. McMann hasn't done anything remotely impressive yet that would lead me to think she poses much of a threat. Rousey also trains her striking to set up her takedowns and subs.

I learned long ago to not believe what fighters say about their own sport. I've heard countless sports be called the "fastest growing sport in the world". My point about Ronda facing a wrestler that she couldn't get down (you have to realize that worldclass freestylers train all types of takedowns and simply are not likely to be taken down in MMA by anyone) is that even if can outstrike her opponent and get a win, her striking for 3 or 5 rounds (because few women have finishing power in the first place and Ronda's strking looked very bad) isn't going to be very fan friendly. Anyway, I do legitimately find Ronda's fights exciting. When she fought Tate I was drunk and actually made a thread declaring I was a fan of Women's MMA now, lol. Not exactly true as I have a hard time really getting into a sport with such a shallow talent pool and generally low skill level, but some of the fights can be exciting.

 

[flanellograf]

Well, to be fair, we haven't really seen much of Ronda's boxing, and it might very well have improved a lot by now. Also, in general it seems like Judo-stylists have an easier time getting down wrestlers than vice versa. I mean Tate is a decent wrestler and she couldn't stop the td. I very much doubt McMann will be able to stop the takedown for 5 rounds. Ronda could always go for a flying armbar also, she already did it once.