UFC/Pride Heavyweight Champions with least-to-most Top 10 ranked wins at Heavyweight.

spannered said:
Well done, TS. Well researched and an interesting observation. If anything, it debunks a few myths. .
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To an extent. Let's not forget Fight Matrix isn't gospel. They didn't have Cain ranked when Werdum beat him for the belt. Vitor wasn't ranked when he fought Chris etc.

I'm not taking away anything from anyone on those lists on any of the weight classes. TS has worked super hard on these so I'm not taking anything away from him either but there's just one or two questionable ranking decisions from Fight Matrix.
 
sampuncher said:
They didn't have Cain ranked when Werdum beat him for the belt. Vitor wasn't ranked when he fought Chris etc.
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Velasquez was inactive for 20 months and Belfort was inactive for 18 months, as a result they were removed from the rankings.
 
I need resident historian @gono btw to help me understand how Igor was ranked #11 when he fought Coleman, being 42-2, with existing wins in Pride over Shoji and Goodridge.
 
cmw43 said:
The other divisions are irrelevant to what's going on at HW.


Most of the guys Stipe beat were closer to 40 and on the verge of retirement and were all much better fighters five years earlier if you're being objective.

I'll break it down for you.

  • #5 Mark Hunt - 40 years old, 70 pro fights wear and tear, coming off a KO loss into the Stipe fight at the tail end of his career.
  • #3 Andrei Arlovski - Arlovskis win streak was over a bunch of guys who very soon after retired or never won a fight again, prime Arlovski was his 2009 run not the shell Stipe faced.
  • #1 Fabricio Werdum - 40 years old and turned up out of shape and ran straight at Stipes fist, already retired once now
  • #3 Alistair Overeem - 40 years old, 20 years on the game, been KOd 15 times between K1 and MMA, more than anyone else in high level MMA, should already have retired for his own health
  • #5 Junior dos Santos - come on, JDS was shot, not been the same fighter since the Cain fights years before and he still got the best of Stipe the first time round.
  • #2 Francis Ngannou - hungry beast, great win
  • #1 Daniel Cormier - despite being the wrong side of 40 DC looked great
  • #2 Daniel Cormier - you can see why DC had already retired once and age had caught up to him.
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I like how you didn’t quote the ages for some fighters, exaggerated for others and took everything out of context:

#5 Hunt- was always a win one, lose one guy. We won the next two fights after Stipe via 1R KOs
#3 Arlovski- was just 36 years old and won 10 out of 11 fights prior to Stipe.
#1 Werdum- was the champion and the best HW in the world at that moment. It’s a great win for Stipe. And by the way Werdum submitted your boy Fedor
#3 Overeem- was just 36 years old as well and on a hot 4 fight win streak. He’s still very competitive 4 years later
#5 JDS- like it or not but JDS was only 33 years old. JDS wasn’t shot, truth is he just fought worse opponents when he was younger.

Ngannou and DC by far 2 best wins anyone has on their resume at HW.

Stipe is the HW GOAT
 
GOATtalks said:
I like how you didn’t quote the ages for some fighters, exaggerated for others and took everything out of context:

#5 Hunt- was always a win one, lose one guy. We won the next two fights after Stipe via 1R KOs
#3 Arlovski- was just 36 years old and won 10 out of 11 fights prior to Stipe.
#1 Werdum- was the champion and the best HW in the world at that moment. It’s a great win for Stipe. And by the way Werdum submitted your boy Fedor
#3 Overeem- was just 36 years old as well and on a hot 4 fight win streak. He’s still very competitive 4 years later
#5 JDS- like it or not but JDS was only 33 years old. JDS wasn’t shot, truth is he just fought worse opponents when he was younger.

Ngannou and DC by far 2 best wins anyone has on their resume at HW.

Stipe is the HW GOAT
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I agree with most of what you said, although I don’t see how you can have Ngannou as a better win than Big Nog. Prime Cro Cop is a better victory as well imo. But I agree that the notion that Stipe only fought washed up fighters is ridiculous. There are fighters on Fedor’s list that struggled before and after he fought them. It’s not all about age.
 
GOATtalks said:
I like how you didn’t quote the ages for some fighters, exaggerated for others and took everything out of context:

#5 Hunt- was always a win one, lose one guy. We won the next two fights after Stipe via 1R KOs
#3 Arlovski- was just 36 years old and won 10 out of 11 fights prior to Stipe.
#1 Werdum- was the champion and the best HW in the world at that moment. It’s a great win for Stipe. And by the way Werdum submitted your boy Fedor
#3 Overeem- was just 36 years old as well and on a hot 4 fight win streak. He’s still very competitive 4 years later
#5 JDS- like it or not but JDS was only 33 years old. JDS wasn’t shot, truth is he just fought worse opponents when he was younger.

Ngannou and DC by far 2 best wins anyone has on their resume at HW.

Stipe is the HW GOAT
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Cormier was old. Ngannou one trick pony without much experience. The rest have a lot of miles on them.

Stipe is an all-time great, but the greatest doesn’t get KO’d by Struve, out pointed by JDS, or KO’d by DC in their prime.

Fedor, Big Nog, Pre-Cain JDS, Cro Cop were all better in their prime and suspect if DC had stayed at heavyweight he would be considered better as well. Your boy Stipe is very good, but he’s not the goat. His lack of top 10 wins combined with losses in his prime proves this. I do think Stipe is starting to decline a bit, so any future losses do not hurt him as much imo.
 
Summoning said:
Fighting +40 years old people in the weakest HW era..

<Dany07>
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You’re like broken record, spitting the same bullshit over and over again.

Stipe
DC
Ngannou
Blaydes
Overeem
Jairzinho
JDS
Volkov
Gane
Black Beast

are a better top10 than any of Pride’s top10 heavies.

The pinnacle of that era was Fedor vs CroCop, where CroCop fought like an absolute amateur. Circling towards Fedor’s power hand throwing naked punches and kicks. And Fedor windmilling like a madman falling out of balance all the time. And CroCop blue belt level BJJ didn’t help as well. Golden age my ass
 
Natural Order said:
I need resident historian @gono btw to help me understand how Igor was ranked #11 when he fought Coleman, being 42-2, with existing wins in Pride over Shoji and Goodridge.
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BJ no.gif

Gono hespekts OG @acannxr but... not Fightmatrix.
Igor was considered top2 P4P back then.

I dont think Fightmatrix is the right tool when you want to assess that transitional era [OW to Div. belts].
If people wanna use it by default, I can dig it, but I see people jumpin´to conclusions without proper understandin´of the context...
 
WOLVERINEKILLS said:
Cormier was old. Ngannou one trick pony without much experience. The rest have a lot of miles on them.

Stipe is an all-time great, but the greatest doesn’t get KO’d by Struve, out pointed by JDS, or KO’d by DC in their prime.

Fedor, Big Nog, Pre-Cain JDS, Cro Cop were all better in their prime and suspect if DC had stayed at heavyweight he would be considered better as well. Your boy Stipe is very good, but he’s not the goat. His lack of top 10 wins combined with losses in his prime proves this. I do think Stipe is starting to decline a bit, so any future losses do not hurt him as much imo.
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How was CroCop better? He’s a one trick pony as well and got KOed cold many times. And those 3 weren’t even true HWs, but bloated MWs or LHWs at best. Yes they fought big guys like Schilt, Zulu or Hong Man Choi, but they had no MMA skills. They got steam rolled when they faced legit well rounded HWs.
 
WOLVERINEKILLS said:
Cormier was old. Ngannou one trick pony without much experience. The rest have a lot of miles on them.

Stipe is an all-time great, but the greatest doesn’t get KO’d by Struve, out pointed by JDS, or KO’d by DC in their prime.

Fedor, Big Nog, Pre-Cain JDS, Cro Cop were all better in their prime and suspect if DC had stayed at heavyweight he would be considered better as well. Your boy Stipe is very good, but he’s not the goat. His lack of top 10 wins combined with losses in his prime proves this. I do think Stipe is starting to decline a bit, so any future losses do not hurt him as much imo.
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Again, this thread has stipe with twice as many top 5 wins as fedor.

Point being, don’t just use stats to try to make a point, as there may be other stats that say the opposite.
 
GOATtalks said:
The pinnacle of that era was Fedor vs CroCop, where CroCop fought like an absolute amateur. Circling towards Fedor’s power hand throwing naked punches and kicks. And Fedor windmilling like a madman falling out of balance all the time. And CroCop blue belt level BJJ didn’t help as well. Golden age my ass
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Lol, this guy telling Fedor and Cro Cop how to fight.

<escalate99>
 
as usual, TS does great job on research,

and a shit job on being logical or flexible to adjust his own silly rules.
 
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