UFC/MMA should learn from boxing...

[Post 2 Decision]

We're not just having a discussion, we're having an online debate.
Who said anything about dick size? Sounds like someone is projecting to me.
I do have friends, and I read books. Now what?

Your mentality shows me you have little dick syndrome, I said nothing about your dick.

I can't fathom what kind of value you would ever bring to this forum with the shit takes you're coming up with.

 

[Utahraptor Ostrommaysi]

So If Oleinik wins his next 5 fights he shouldn't get a shot?

Nope, because he's never been the champ in the UFC.
Being the champ of some regional promotion doesn't count.

 

[Utahraptor Ostrommaysi]

Your mentality shows me you have little dick syndrome l, I said nothing about your dick.

I can't fathom what kind of value you would ever bring to this forum with the shit takes you're coming up with.

You were the one who accused me of having little dick syndrome.
Well I'm able to get under the skin of people like you, at least.
You should see my threads that I post in The War Room sometime. Lots of anti-Trump and pro-socialism threads. There is always so many triggered conservatives when I make those threads. <45>

 

[Jose Beehive]

Nope, because he's never been the champ in the UFC.
Being the champ of some regional promotion doesn't count.

The mans had 73 fights though, it's outrageous to say he's not allowed to fight for a belt if he deserves a shot. Not Overeem either then? who has beaten many many former champion.. This is madness.

The champ of another promotion doesn't count but the Wins do? You'd have to scrap every women's divison pretty much.

Izzy would still be fighting Cans

So many current ranked fighters would still be fighting cans.

 

[Post 2 Decision]

You were the one who accused me of having little dick syndrome.
Well I'm able to get under the skin of people like you, at least.
You should see my threads that I post in The War Room sometime. Lots of anti-Trump and pro-socialism threads. There is always so many triggered conservatives when I make those threads. <45>

Not under my skin, normal people don't get worked up from people online

 

[JAL]

But he's shown you he's at a higher level than the guys he's killing, so you have no idea what level he's at. Maybe he can't crack the top 15, maybe he could beat Usman. You have no idea because no one has seen it. And there's only 1 way to find out

true, what if we kept the same energy for Izzy.. dude became a champ in 2 years time, if we fed him bums he would still be outisde top 10 like this guy is suggesting

 

[Post 2 Decision]

true, what if we kept the same energy for Izzy.. dude became a champ in 2 years time, if we fed him bums he would still be outisde top 10 like this guy is suggesting

He doesn't understand the basic flaws in his system

 

[Utahraptor Ostrommaysi]

The mans had 73 fights though, it's outrageous to say he's not allowed to fight for a belt if he deserves a shot. Not Overeem either then? who has beaten many many former champion.. This is madness.

The champ of another promotion doesn't count but the Wins do? You'd have to scrap every women's divison pretty much.

Izzy would still be fighting Cans

So many current ranked fighters would still be fighting cans.

Oleinik is in his 40s, it's very unlikely that he is going win enough fights in a row to earn a title shot at this point. He is a good gatekeeper for Heavyweight, but that's about it.
Overeem deserves a title shot if he earns it because he is a former Strikeforce champ. I didn't say that being a champ of any other promotion besides the UFC doesn't count, just that being the champ of a regional promotion doesn't count.
I consider Strikeforce to be on par with the UFC, especially considering how many Strikeforce champs went on to become the champ in the UFC.
Overeem is also a decorated kickboxer, so we can make an exception to the rules for him.
Izzy is a decorated kickboxer like Overreem, so we can make an exception to the rules for him as well. Plus he is undefeated in MMA and he is the champ, so everyone knows he is an elite fighter at this point.

 

[Utahraptor Ostrommaysi]

Not under my skin, normal people don't get worked up from people online

Good, because I'm having a lot of fun.

 

[Sickbro69420]

I half agree with you. Let them develop with decent opposition but don't throw them into the shark tank so soon until they know how to swim In them deep waters. Some guys are making it to the big leagues with decent striking and grappling and aren't mixing it up intelligently.
Losses in MMA are more forgiving though and a lot of guys learn from the losses and go on pretty good streaks and stay on top. A steep learning curve for sure. I don't want to watch a MMA fighter beat 15 guys without actually being tested and then find out he didn't learn the lessons o become great or switch camps or make whatever adjustments were needed to gain that pro maturity and stamina.

 

[TeenageMutantLesnarTurtle]

As much as I like boxing, its an absolute shitshow. Ducking, corruption, record padding, tons of belts, building dudes up with undefeated records so you can cash them out, most of the biggest fights being stalled for literally years. Boxing is basically popular in spite of itself. Its an institution with a romanticized past, so it can get away with being completely incompetent to some degree. MMA is a far superior all round product and should not be following boxing in any way.

 

[Utahraptor Ostrommaysi]

true, what if we kept the same energy for Izzy.. dude became a champ in 2 years time, if we fed him bums he would still be outisde top 10 like this guy is suggesting

Izzy has a great kickboxing record, I think an exception could be made for him.
The same way Conor was allowed to box Floyd, even though he never had a pro-boxing match prior to that fight.

 

[Jose Beehive]

Oleinik is in his 40s, it's very unlikely that he is going win enough fights in a row to earn a title shot at this point. He is a good gatekeeper for Heavyweight, but that's about it.
Overeem deserves a title shot if he earns it because he is a former Strikeforce champ. I didn't say that being a champ of any other promotion besides the UFC doesn't count, just that being the champ of a regional promotion doesn't count.
I consider Strikeforce to be on par with the UFC, especially considering how many Strikeforce champs went on to become the champ in the UFC.
Overeem is also a decorated kickboxer, so we can make an exception to the rules for him.
Izzy is a decorated kickboxer like Overreem, so we can make an exception to the rules for him as well. Plus he is undefeated in MMA and he is the champ, so everyone knows he is an elite fighter at this point.

Unlikely sure, He's ranked 11th and beat Werdum in maybe his best win yet in the UFC. You shit on Randy Couture by this logic..
You are just using your subjective opinion, it's not impossible so you shouldn't write it off just based on your synopsis..

So Strikeforce counts, and Kickboxing achievements too? what is the basis that decorated kickboxing achievements contribute towards anything? Why favouritism towards that Martial Art(sport) but not others? .. seems wishy washy.. Does Bellator count? or Pride?

 

[Utahraptor Ostrommaysi]

Unlikely sure, He's ranked 11th and beat Werdum in maybe his best win yet in the UFC. You shit on Randy Couture by this logic..
You are just using your subjective opinion, it's not impossible so you shouldn't write it off just based on your synopsis..

So Strikeforce counts, and Kickboxing achievements too? what is the basis that decorated kickboxing achievements contribute towards anything? Why favouritism towards that Martial Art(sport) but not others? .. seems wishy washy.. Does Bellator count? or Pride?

I said unlikely, not impossible.
And Randy was a multiple time UFC champ when he beat Sylvia for the belt. And it's pretty obvious that Randy is an anomaly and a fighter in his mid 40s isn't going to become champ in most cases.
I think kickboxing counts because it is a sport that has records that we can keep track of and look at their wins, losses, who did they beat, what did they accomplish, etc. While something like Taekwondo or Karate doesn't necessarily have that. I think that someone with really impressive wrestling or BJJ credentials could receive the same kind of exception to the rules that kickboxers would receive for that reason.
Bellator is around the same level as UFC, or just a tier below the UFC so yes. And Pride was on the same level as the UFC, if not greater. So obviously it counts.



.

 

[Jose Beehive]

I said unlikely, not impossible.
And Randy was a multiple time UFC champ when he beat Sylvia for the belt. And it's pretty obvious that Randy is an anomaly and a fighter in his mid 40s isn't going to become champ in most cases.
I think kickboxing counts because it is a sport that has records that we can keep track of and look at their wins, losses, who did they beat, what did they accomplish, etc. While something like Taekwondo or Karate doesn't necessarily have that. I think that someone with really impressive wrestling or BJJ credentials could receive the same kind of exception to the rules that kickboxers would receive for that reason.
Bellator is around the same level as UFC, or just a tier below the UFC so yes. And Pride was on the same level as the UFC, if not greater. So obviously it counts.



.

So if it's possible for him to get a title shot, let's say he does win what ever amount of matches it takes say 3-6 from now, do you believe that in this current system he shouldn't be given a chance?

Randy was 35 when he won the first title in 97, in his 4th ever pro fight.. There seems to be quite a few anomaly's then, Lawler, Israel, Randy, Brock?.. Would Ben Askren have been liable for a belt shot if he'd have won the necessary amount of matches? probably 1 or 2 fights away had he beaten Masvidal.

I don't know do archaic promotions that used to be top level count higher than smaller ones that currently exist? I get the feeling there's going to be Grey areas in this subjectivity, especially if you start to regard High level Muay Thai fighters for example over regional MMA champs in who's allowed to fight for a belt... Saki fits your bill, but has proven to be shocking.


I do generally agree with the premise that giving fighters more chances on average to work their way towards better opportunities as opposed to being gifted on hype or reputation is a good thing, but find it hard to believe that some arbitrary number of 10 losses, and a subjective stance on what background is thumbs up and what is thumbs down works.

 

[Mahkor]

There is a huge thing called experience you know? that kind of thing wins fights.

Sure, but what experience would you get crushing cans? If you only fight mediocre wrestlers will you really develop a TD defence for the wrestling of a top 10 guy?

 

[Canarinha]

Sure, but what experience would you get crushing cans? If you only fight mediocre wrestlers will you really develop a TD defence for the wrestling of a top 10 guy?

You have to

Sure, but what experience would you get crushing cans? If you only fight mediocre wrestlers will you really develop a TD defence for the wrestling of a top 10 guy?

I stand by my point but i also agree what ur saying....either way this was a great learning experience for Edmen.

 

[Area809]

For those who don’t follow boxing closely, it’s very rare to see a young fighter with less than 20 fights be ready to fight a legit champ (not referring to one of the multiple sub belts). Someone like Loma is not the rule but the exception. He also had a guzillion amateur fights before turning pro. In my humble opinion, from being a boxing fan for 30 years and having been around gyms, 20 fights is a good bench mark for boxers, because it means they have spent the time and have enough training rounds. But like I said, there are exceptions to this when you get a generational talent like Loma.

I do appreciate boxing for this. Boxing has a legit system for developing fighters. MMA has too many disciplines and way too many variables to standardize anything. Your striking might suck but you can be a kickass grappler like Maia and make it very far. But at the end of the day, these are two very different sports and each have very different paths for fighters to succeed.

The problem with boxing is not “padded” records. The problem is that when fighters are in fact ready to fight each other (Spence/Crawford), they don’t make the fights. And let’s just say Spence and Crawford weren’t actual contemporaries and one was 25-0 and the other 12-0, I wouldn’t want to see that fight.

 

[El Fernas]

Best should fight the best, agree, this wasnt that, it was a new 22yo guy against a guy that might not be top 5 but has been in there with some of the best and could be considered dangerous, he should had been fighting a guy with a lesser record, or at least around the same number of fights, proof is it wasnt even a 5 round fight.

 

[Askafan]

Frankly all those unbeaten streaks in boxing are an embarrassment, it wasn't always like that.