UFC is making female fighters look bad

The UFC is not making them look bad. The lack of good fighters and Ronda Rousey combine to make female fighters look really fuckin bad.

And some of today's feminists do seem to think that martial arts dojos are filled women who could go toe to toe in full contact fighting with the top 5 UFC fighters in any weight class from MW on down and it is because of patriarchal sexism that the UFC is not looking for them and has not already found them. So I get where that mentality comes from.
 
And some of today's feminists do seem to think that martial arts dojos are filled women who could go toe to toe in full contact fighting with the top 5 UFC fighters in any weight class from MW on down and it is because of patriarchal sexism that the UFC is not looking for them and has not already found them. So I get where that mentality comes from.

Strawmen arguments certainly are useful sometimes.
 
Strawmen arguments certainly are useful sometimes.

It is not a strawman if it is an actual argument made by many people. I have heard similar things on a relatively frequent basis.
 
Nobody wanted a female division in the UFC. It got shoved down are throats, the fights have been as bad as everyone predicted, and nobody has changed their mind.
 
Strawmen arguments certainly are useful sometimes.

If you think I am making a pure strawman argument you may not quite understand what the modern feminist movement has transformed into. It's not your mother's and certainly not your grandmother's feminism. I can guarantee many of them are not satisfied with the UFC's conclusion of women because they feel that women's BW and StrawW should each have at least 10 more fighters who are just as proficient and capable as Ronda. Hell, some of them probably think that by now they should have women fighting male fighters n the 15-7 ranking and winning those fights regularly.
 
It is not a strawman if it is an actual argument made by many people. I have heard similar things on a relatively frequent basis.
I have literally never seen anyone say anything of the sort. And I've Sherdogged for some time. But fair enough, let's call it a coincidence.

Nobody wanted a female division in the UFC.
I did.

It got shoved down are throats
Nope, people are actually paying for Invicta cards now. A lot of the girls in the UFC came from Invicta too.

the fights have been as bad as everyone predicted
Cat Zingano vs Amanda Nunes
Cat Zingano vs Miesha Tate
Paige VanZant vs Kailin Curran
Joanna Jedrzejczyk vs Claudia Gadelha

I won't even mention Ronda's fights, which have been great. The fight mentioned above were awesome. It's not that there aren't good WMMA fights in the UFC. It's just that the UFC keeps padding their cards with shitty fights too.

and nobody has changed their mind.
I think a few people have.
 
Women's tennis has a very large fanbase.

Women's gymnastics is far more popular at the Olympics than is men's gymnastics.

So?

Hmmm...gymnastics and tennis are individual sports, just like MMA. Good analogy. Comparing women`s MMA to the WNBA (team sport) is a bad analogy.

Oh, and I`m totally pleased that the UFC now has female divisions. I`ve been an MMA fan for 17 years and I`m happy the UFC finally decided to join the 20th century (let alone, the 21st) and offer women`s divisions. I was waiting a long time for this to happen; great (and correct) move by the UFC.

People using one fight (and one fighter) as an excuse to condemn the sport (for women) are - I`m guessing - not very old or very wise. The fights and fighters will all get consistently better and Ronda Rousey`s effect/impact on the sport will be felt 7-8 years from now when waves of new fighters come in (all wanting to be like their hero, Ronda).

Jarl
 
CELS: The top female fighters in the UFC often display horrendous technique, especially in their defense. It is not the organization that is making them look bad, it is the fighters. The depth is simply not there, the talent is not there, and the drive to watch them is not there for many, if not most, people (biologically related, without a doubt).
 
This.

Same goes for smaller men's divisions. Except they look like 12-year-olds.

DirtyTerribleChital.gif
 
the fights have been as bad as everyone predicted

Oh? Paige VanZant vs Kailin Curran won "Fight of the Night" at Fight Night 57 in November.

The women strawweights are going to rock the UFC!
 
CELS: The top female fighters in the UFC often display horrendous technique, especially in their defense. It is not the organization that is making them look bad, it is the fighters. The depth is simply not there, the talent is not there, and the drive to watch them is not there for many, if not most, people (biologically related, without a doubt).
I do see where you're coming from. The top female fighters in the UFC are pretty much grapplers who learned striking late in their careers and sometimes their striking is cringeworthy. But the fights are still good when their grappling makes up for it. And there are several women in the UFC who are better strikers than some of the men. Though, granted, none of the best female strikers in the UFC are anywhere near the top 10 male fighters in most male divisions.

As for whether people have a hard time watching female fighters because of nature or nurture, genes or culture? I'm fairly sure it's both, and I'm leaning more towards culture than genes. I'm certainly no feminist, but it doesn't take a whole lot of research into our western culture to see if there's any kind of precedent with males who like to see women fight. If it's biological, it's certainly not a universal part of the human male genome.

 
As for whether people have a hard time watching female fighters because of nature or nurture, genes or culture? I'm fairly sure it's both, and I'm leaning more towards culture than genes. I'm certainly no feminist, but it doesn't take a whole lot of research into our western culture to see if there's any kind of precedent with males who like to see women fight. If it's biological, it's certainly not a universal part of the human male genome.



The reason we like watching fights is nigh entirely biological. Throughout our evolutionary history, we developed various modules aimed at the identifying and assessing of environmental cues. As a species, we ought to know who is and who is not an immediate threat/a dominant individual. Couple these together and you get to the notion that humans developed various techniques to assess the relative fighting capacity/dominance of conspecifics. From there, we simply need to ask ourselves who - more often than not - would partake in these physical confrontations (thus allowing us to make relativity-based judgements/gain ground in the environment)? Men, of course. You can see where this is going, I am sure. (It is worth noting that this argument also explains the lack of excitement for the smaller, male weight classes; weight classes that - without question - contain the most skilled MMA combatants in the sport yet receive little to no respect/admiration from a significant portion of the population.)

Seinfeld: Greatest sitcom of all-time.
 
The reason we like watching fights is nigh entirely biological. Throughout our evolutionary history, we developed various modules aimed at the identifying and assessing of environmental cues. As a species, we ought to know who is and who is not an immediate threat/dominant individual. Couple these together and you get to the notion that humans developed various techniques to assess the relative fighting capacity/dominance of conspecifics. From there, we simply need to ask ourselves who - more often than not - would partake in these physical confrontations (thus allowing us to make relativity-based judgements/gain ground in the environment)? Men, of course. You can see where this is going, I am sure. (It is worth noting that this argument also explains the lack of excitement for the smaller, male weight classes; weight classes that - without question - contain the most skilled MMA combatants in the sport yet receive little to no respect/admiration.)
Spoken like a representative of the evolutionary perspective of psychology.

The problem with this sort of argument, as indeed is often the case with the evolutionary perspective, is the circular reasoning.
1: We prefer to watch men fight.
2: Probably because evolution.
3: How do we know that? Because...
4: We prefer to watch men fight.

Of course the appetite for violence is a result of our genes. But clearly, culture is an important element if you can find any proof of differences between cultures. If it's just a random selection of violent and non-violent people in all cultures, then it's probably based on genetics, because there's no correlation between specific cultures and their affinity for violence. But that's not the case at all. Different cultures have, and have long had, entirely different views on combat.

For some people, the very notion of men grappling is disgusting and entirely unnatural. For the greeks, wrestling naked was considered beautiful and entirely natural. And what about past and present nations who have allowed or disallowed women from joining their armed forces?

I could easily counter by saying that many men are drawn to women who can fight because we are attracted to strong females who can defend their offspring. We are particularly drawn to beautiful women who can fight, because those are potential mates. And while no one likes to watch a woman get beaten by a man, I'm sure you can find plenty of examples of fictional female characters who slaughter countless men while looking really rather sexy doing it. Incidentally, this natural attraction to strong women could explain the recent western trend where it's popular for women to be strong and fit rather than anorectic with fake boobs. Women with visible abs have never been more popular.

But then again, maybe culture plays a large part in that as well.
 
Spoken like a representative of the evolutionary perspective of psychology.

The problem with this sort of argument, as indeed is often the case with the evolutionary perspective, is the circular reasoning.
1: We prefer to watch men fight.
2: Probably because evolution.
3: How do we know that? Because...
4: We prefer to watch men fight.

Of course the appetite for violence is a result of our genes. But clearly, culture is an important element if you can find any proof of differences between cultures. If it's just a random selection of violent and non-violent people in all cultures, then it's probably based on genetics, because there's no correlation between specific cultures and their affinity for violence. But that's not the case at all. Different cultures have, and have long had, entirely different views on combat.

For some people, the very notion of men grappling is disgusting and entirely unnatural. For the greeks, wrestling naked was considered beautiful and entirely natural. And what about past and present nations who have allowed or disallowed women from joining their armed forces?

I could easily counter by saying that many men are drawn to women who can fight because we are attracted to strong females who can defend their offspring. We are particularly drawn to beautiful women who can fight, because those are potential mates. And while no one likes to watch a woman get beaten by a man, I'm sure you can find plenty of examples of fictional female characters who slaughter countless men while looking really rather sexy doing it. Incidentally, this natural attraction to strong women could explain the recent western trend where it's popular for women to be strong and fit rather than anorectic with fake boobs. Women with visible abs have never been more popular.

But then again, maybe culture plays a large part in that as well.

The argument contains no circular logic (as the conclusion is not listed among the premises, if I lay the entire thing out). Instead, the conclusion follows the premises. (The argument you constructed to mirror my own is the definition of a straw-man.) Furthermore, I do not discount the effect that culture plays on the expression of our genes as it certainly plays a substantial and fundamental role. Without culture - the environment in which we find ourselves - our genes would lack the battleground that evolution by natural selection requires. (A side note, Memetics ought to focus on this - the manner in which culture affects genetic expression - but for some reason they seem more interested in pseudoscience.)
 
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wmma is there to make ronda rousey a lot of money. once she is gone dana will scrap wmma from the ufc
 
I completely disagree with the premise of this thread. Female fighters have never had a bigger spotlight. Ronda Rousey is one of the biggest stars in MMA and definitely wouldn't be if she was fighting in Invicta.
 
I have literally never seen anyone say anything of the sort. And I've Sherdogged for some time. But fair enough, let's call it a coincidence.


I did.


Nope, people are actually paying for Invicta cards now. A lot of the girls in the UFC came from Invicta too.


Cat Zingano vs Amanda Nunes
Cat Zingano vs Miesha Tate
Paige VanZant vs Kailin Curran
Joanna Jedrzejczyk vs Claudia Gadelha

I won't even mention Ronda's fights, which have been great. The fight mentioned above were awesome. It's not that there aren't good WMMA fights in the UFC. It's just that the UFC keeps padding their cards with shitty fights too.


I think a few people have.

I'm speaking on general consensus, not your personal beliefs. You've been around here long enough that you should be able to remember the polls before, during and after the creation of a female division in the UFC.
 
The argument contains no circular logic (as the conclusion is not listed among the premises, if I lay the entire thing out). Instead, the conclusion follows the premises. (The argument you constructed to mirror my own is the definition of a straw-man.) Furthermore, I do not discount the effect that culture plays on the expression of our genes as it certainly plays a substantial and fundamental role. Without culture - the environment in which we find ourselves - our genes would lack the battleground that evolution by natural selection requires. (A side note, Memetics ought to focus on this - the manner in which culture affects genetic expression - but for some reason they seem more interested in pseudoscience.)
Fair enough. When you said "The reason we like watching fights is nigh entirely biological", it sounded to me like you really discounted the effect that culture plays. It seemed to me grossly inaccurate unless you meant that ultimately, every human desire stems from biological conditions, as opposed to being metaphysical. At present, culture obviously has a huge impact on how people perceive both gender roles and unarmed combat as a recreational activity.
 
The UFC aren't making WMMA bad. It is [For the most part] bad. Female athletes in every sport are the equivalent of their 14-15yr old male counterparts.

It rarely takes off because the majority of fans have a superior version of the same sport in the male arena.

shut up
 
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