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News UFC Antitrust Lawsuit: Joe Silva's testimony

Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by vgff, Oct 21, 2019.

  1. vgff

    vgff Brown Belt

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    https://www.forbes.com/sites/paulgi...er-antitrust-testimony-mma-news/#494453294d2f

    Paul Gift and John Nash are some of the few professional economists in the mma media space.
    they're worth a follow.
    they have a regular show on Bloody Elbows youtube and podcast called "Showmoney"


    here are some highlights:
    most common questions were those trying to get Silva to confirm or deny – depending on which side was doing the questioning – the existence of essentially a pay scale in the UFC.

    According to Silva, he had discretion for making most of the early fights on a card, then President Dana White or former CEO L. Fertitta would need to sign off on “main events, co-mains, things like that.”

    Sage Northcutt’s Potential
    While explaining that fighters signing their second UFC contract would not always receive similar show and win money payments since it depended on what happened in their earlier fights and how exciting they were, Silva was asked for an example of a fighter who had losses but who might’ve received more than someone with a better record.

    “Off the top of my head, I'm not sure,” Silva replied. “There are so many that — to remember, had they that early on in their career, if they lost and come up. But we certainly had more popular people. There's examples like Sage Northcutt, who was signed to a multiplied deal, and way before his deal was up received a huge jump in pay simply because Dana just saw a lot of potential in him.”

    Wage Share
    As a UFC attorney was questioning Silva, she transitioned into the topic of wage share leading to an immediate objection from the plaintiffs’ side. The judge, not wanting “essentially a free-for-all,” sustained the objection and the UFC attorney moved on to the following questions:

    Q: So when you were negotiating contracts with athletes, did you know Zuffa's event revenues?
    Silva: I did not.


    Q: Were you ever told that you had a budget for negotiating with fighters?
    Silva: I was not.


    Q: Were you ever told that you were spending too much for compensation on fighters?
    Silva: I was not.


    Q: Now, plaintiffs have suggested that Zuffa tried to maintain a certain set of its revenues as compensation —

    The judge, believing the UFC attorney was asking the same prior questions just in a different way, struck Silva’s testimony as it related to revenues from the record.

    T
    he UFC has since filed a motion for the judge to reconsider his ruling and wants a Silva declaration related to his three answers above as well as the fact that he “never heard of the concept of paying athletes a share of revenues until he learned of this lawsuit” and “During the class period, no mixed martial arts athlete ever asked Mr. Silva for a contract where the athlete would earn certain percentage of the event revenue as payment” included in the record.

    How Locker Room Bonuses Worked

    When Silva was asked by a plaintiffs’ attorney about the “goal” of fight night bonuses, he agreed that they attempted to align fighters’ actual performance with their pay, an idea also supported by my prior research in the area.

    Silva then moved into discretionary bonuses, also known as locker room bonuses, and the process used by the UFC to determine their size.

    “Now, there was other bonuses, too, that were not discussed that were not fight of the night, and that's what I believe this chart references, that for a long period of time what would happen is after a show would end, the next day, for Monday, I would summarize the card to Dana, Lorenzo, Sean, and I'd say, here's what happened in every fight, and here's money that's not knockout of the night or fight of the night, here's extra bonuses that I think these guys are worth. And I would make suggestions, this guy lost, but it was a good fight, he did that, I think he should get 3,000 extra; I think that that guy should get 10,000 extra. And I'd go down the whole card.

    “Then Dana and Lorenzo would look at that, and they would decide did they agree with me, do they want to give more or do they want to give less. But that had nothing to do with knockout of the night or performance of the night, that was different bonuses.”
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2019
  2. suffersystem

    suffersystem Brown Belt

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    So, we finally have solid, concrete proof of backroom bonuses now.
     
  3. Airdack

    Airdack fighting out of Sylvan Learning Center

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    I wonder if the ring card girls get casting couch bonuses from Dana.
     
  4. genecop

    genecop Silver Belt

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    K
     
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  5. vgff

    vgff Brown Belt

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    yeah, i think most people had this figured out already but i guess this confirms it
     
  6. BsBan_Account#2

    BsBan_Account#2 Purple Belt

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    Was pretty fucking obvious for over a decade when all the fighters would talk about it. Was only morons on sherdog that disputed they ever existed and strictly looked at what the reported earnings were (not talking about you - just saying in general) .
     
  7. vgff

    vgff Brown Belt

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    yeah, fighters been mentioning it for quite a while, it wasn't really a secret
     
  8. Red Dragoniop

    Red Dragoniop Green Belt

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    ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
     
  9. Kafir-kun

    Kafir-kun Al Far'oun

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    I've always believed it but I still felt like the company would use them to try and dodge the issue of fighter pay even though the bonuses not being disclosed meant we still had no real idea how much these guys are making. The two numbers Silva throws out as examples are $3,000 and $10,000 so while they're not nothing they're hardly doubling the pay of these guys.
     
  10. judge wolf

    judge wolf 2

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    Not a single fighter ever asked for the percentage of the night earnings? Sure....
     
  11. Cooliox

    Cooliox Gold Belt Platinum Member

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    FACT:

    If you fought a certain entertaining but mindless way, which goes against the benefit of your long-term career and health, you were given back-room bonuses and job security- temporarily.

    If you fought in certain ways that was deemed 'less entertaining' by Dana White, despite it being safe for you to ensure your win and win bonus, and betterment of your career- you were openly 'punished' by Dana White... especially so with Grapplers: Shields, Fitch, Okami... etc


    It's just a matter of time before this whole shit show gets exposed. WAY too much fight manipulation for the longest time by Zuffa
     
  12. LeNoirNePasMerde

    LeNoirNePasMerde Those liberal freaks go to far

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    This is still a thing?
     
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  13. Candy Routure

    Candy Routure Brown Belt

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    Hah! Dana made the backroom bonuses sound like millions of dollars.. 3-10k later..
     
  14. vgff

    vgff Brown Belt

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    yes. i wonder if it changes at all with WME as new owners
     
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  15. kflo

    kflo Steel Belt

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    this has all been pretty known for a long time and it's never been a big issue, like you're suggesting it is. next thing you'll argue is that the ufc can't base pay on entertainment value and drawing power.
     
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  16. kflo

    kflo Steel Belt

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    derp. he gave 2 examples, and again we know for a fact that there have been much bigger bonuses as well.
     
  17. AtomicPanther

    AtomicPanther Brown Belt

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    Wonder if those 'back room bonuses' were disclosed? You know, like for taxes? Is the IRS in on this charade?
     
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  18. Lemmy Caution

    Lemmy Caution Purple Belt

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    That's not the criticism. It's that the undisclosed pay is used to keep salaries down. The UFC is the only one who wins with undisclosed pay.

    A child understands this. Why do sherdoggers pretend to be so special they don't even have the reasoning capacity of a child? What's the end game of this charade?
     
  19. 275others

    275others Purple Belt

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    It's a business, not charity.
     
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  20. paddy_da_pikey

    paddy_da_pikey Purple Belt

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    It’s very obvious that he is trying his best to marginalise the significance of the bonuses in relation to the amount it relates to fighter pay

    Eg. Many many years ago in an interview Sean McCorkle alluded to a $70k bonus he received from the UFC for his fight with Struve, a fight he lost and mentioned this as a reason he had no bad blood when the cut him
     
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