UFC 195: first all women PPV?

[Drake]

Who said they should give up? Do you even know how to argue? Rand clearly wanted to be champion, she fell short, so? Doesn't mean she can't be champion in the future. She's got the heart of a champion (so much for being a WMMA hater, huh?) Joanna could very likely be dethroned in her next fight by Claudia. Rose is only 23, nowhere close to her prime....but here's the bottom line: they have all faltered, and now they need to prove themselves. Attention, recognition, shot-calling, all these come after. Ronda Rousey's opponents were pulling out and missing weight badly early in her career, her BFF Edmond wouldn't even hold mitts for her, and now look at where she is.

Your favorite fighter isn't there yet. She is not entitled to anything, she doesn't deserve anything, she might one day, but not now, you need to deal with it.

That's all I wanted you to say.

If you're thinking i'm saying Randa deserves/should get a title shot, that's not at all what i've been getting at. I've been saying to just get her a fight in general. Because after reading the above, if you think she doesn't deserve a fight at all then most of this argument has been pointless.

 

[FutureBwChamp]

Day all suck in my opinion

 

[fightdonttweet]

No I'm not. Even with the loss, Rose was one of the favorites going into TUF. And after her performance on the show + episode info leaks she got a ton of hype.

She was the 7th ranked seed going in so there were 6 fighters thought to be better than her. She overachieved by getting to the finals.

And this was only out of the fighters that were actually on the show. Gadelha, Lima and PVZ were all recruited but couldn't participate.

And by "botched it" I meant they didn't live up to their expectations. Calderwood is the perfect example. Had so much hype and so many opportunities. If only she delivered. She'd be the first Scottish fighter with an exclusive Reebok deal. Instead she got exposed and her stock went down.

"Botched" implies they made a mistake. Calderwood simply isn't that good. So it was good for her to get some viewers through TUF. And these were your expectations, not mine. Many mma fans have the tendency to immediately leap on hype trains, no matter how much evidence there is. Which is really silly to do in a division as new as straw weight. Most of the top 10 are prospect level with 6 or less total fights. Expect a lot to change in the next year.

 

[LouisBolanos]

That's all I wanted you to say.

If you're thinking i'm saying Randa deserves/should get a title shot, that's not at all what i've been getting at. I've been saying to just get her a fight in general. Because after reading the above, if you think she doesn't deserve a fight at all then most of this argument has been pointless.

She doesn't deserve to ask when she's going to fight. WSW is not a particularly popular division and she's just one of the fighters. Shelby doesn't have to cater to her needs, she'll get a fight when she gets a fight, if that means waiting longer then tough shit. Like I said, the situation would be very different were she the champ, she got the opportunity but failed, that's life and she needs to deal with it and so do you.

She was the 7th ranked seed going in so there were 6 fighters thought to be better than her. She overachieved by getting to the finals.

Rose Namajunas went in that show to win it, and she believed she could do it. You don't "overachieve" by failing your goal and losing a ton of the hype built during the show with her loss to Carla.

"Botched" implies they made a mistake. Calderwood simply isn't that good. So it was good for her to get some viewers through TUF. And these were your expectations, not mine. Many mma fans have the tendency to immediately leap on hype trains, no matter how much evidence there is. Which is really silly to do in a division as new as straw weight. Most of the top 10 are prospect level with 6 or less total fights. Expect a lot to change in the next year.

I'm not going to argue semantics. If they got on the show thinking they'd be champion (maybe not someone like Magana, but most of the girls did) and failed, then they made a mistake, messed up, did badly, whatever you want to call it. I call it a botched attempt. They had this big platform to gain exposure and build momentum, and now look who has the most momentum at SW? A Polish chick who wasn't even on TUF, and it wasn't achieved through looks (puke) or trash talk, it was done 100% with in-cage performance.

 

[Scamrock]

I'm fine with an all female card. The one suggested looks pretty fun. I mean, I'm a fan of Invicta. If I'm fine with that, of course I'm good with Ronda, Joanna Champion, Miesha, maybe Cyborg, Gadelha, Nunes, etc.

 

[Scamrock]

Sure. And make UFC 196 all flyweights.

I'd watch it.

Main Card:

Johnson/Dodson
Benavidez/Bagautinov
Formiga/Cejudo
Makovsky/Reis
McCall/Moraga

Prelims:

Borg/Ortiz II
Horiguchi/Camis
Smolka/Holohan
Scoggins/Benoit
Cariaso/Pettis
Kelades/Beal

 

[Scamrock]

exactly - who want's to watch the can crusher arm bar another hopeless opponent in under a minute.

Tate, Davis, Zingano, Kaufman, and McMann aren't cans. They are good, top ranked opponents. Ronda is just that good.

 

[Rational Poster]

The mid-tier males absolutely are helping to sell the card to anyone who isn't casual. Yes the UFC owes me a good card top to bottom if they want me to pay $60.

I would not buy an all women card because I simply don't care about any of them and the one female fighter ANYONE cares about will have her whole 20 second fight in gif form on sherdog the next day.

I find it hard to believe you buy any cards.

 

[Scamrock]

Last Mighty Mouse PPV = 125k buys.

You know who's taking a dump on "MMA fans who know what they're watching"? MMA fans themselves. Again and again you prove to the world that none of you can afford to buy cards worth a crap. None of you can put food on the table for your favorite fighters who actually show technique instead of drama. You talk the talk, but when it comes down to putting your money where your mouths are, the casuals destroy you with the numbers they bring. YOU are the reason decent fighters like Mighty Mouse are paid peanuts compared to can crushing drama queens like Rousey. Wanna blame someone? Stand in front of a mirror and slap yourself in the face a couple of times then shut up.

This is solid gold.

 

[Scamrock]

The mid-tier males absolutely are helping to sell the card to anyone who isn't casual. Yes the UFC owes me a good card top to bottom if they want me to pay $60.

I would not buy an all women card because I simply don't care about any of them and the one female fighter ANYONE cares about will have her whole 20 second fight in gif form on sherdog the next day.

UFC 169 had two title fights, a title eliminator, two top ten HWs, and a barn burner for a curtain jerker. It only did 230k. Where was your $60? The casuals will pay in droves to watch Ronda. The hardcores who allegedly will pay for a good undercard won't won't even roll more than 230k deep for a stacked card.

 

[Barteh]

As a women MMA hater I would fucking love it for obvious reasons.

 

[Scamrock]

What does me (some guy) buying cards or the UFC owing anyone anything have to do with the UFC charging people for an Invicta card being a horrible idea?

UFC 195: You don't buy it anyway; we owe you nothing.
Cain/Bigfoot III
Penn/Edgar IV
Tito/Forrest IV
Arlovski/Buentello II

Invicta never had a division as strong as UFC's current WBW or WSW divisions.

Having an all female card isn't the equivalent of an Invicta card any more than a card with all UFC FWs and BWs is to a WEC card.

Aldo/McGregor
Dillashaw/Cruz
Edgar/Mendes
Faber/Swanson
Holloway/Oliveira

"WEC cards used to be free...now they want us to pay for it?"

 

[Scamrock]

Big gamble by the UFC. They're lucky casuals are so dumb they'll get the PPV just to see one fighter.

Casuals are dumb. Hardcores are cheapskates. At least one of them is supporting the product so that the sport can flourish.

 

[fightdonttweet]

Rose Namajunas went in that show to win it, and she believed she could do it. You don't "overachieve" by failing your goal and losing a ton of the hype built during the show with her loss to Carla.

I'm not going to argue semantics. If they got on the show thinking they'd be champion (maybe not someone like Magana, but most of the girls did) and failed, then they made a mistake, messed up, did badly, whatever you want to call it. I call it a botched attempt. They had this big platform to gain exposure and build momentum, and now look who has the most momentum at SW? A Polish chick who wasn't even on TUF, and it wasn't achieved through looks (puke) or trash talk, it was done 100% with in-cage performance.

What a fighter went in to do doesn't matter jack if they don't have the ability to in the first place. Nothing to do with "botching" and you know it.

If I right now decided I want to be the UFC lightweight champion and failed at that goal it wouldn't be a "botched" job. In fact if I even made it to the UFC it would be an amazing accomplishment. If you would consider that me botching my opportunity you're completely delusional.

But I have a feeling you're not delusional. You just don't like admitting when you're wrong.

 

[Towelie by TKO]

Would pay $60 for Joanna vs anybody on any card.

That woman gets me hyped as fuck.

 

[fightdonttweet]

Invicta is an all WMMA promotion. I (and others in the thread) likened a hypothetical all female PPV to an Invicta card, with the added bonus of paying $60 for it. If you can't see the similarities and think a comparison to Strikeforce would be just as apt, you shouldn't be calling anyone's logic retarded.

Besides the arbitrary fact it would be all females, there is no comparison. Invicta has never had a card as stacked as in the OP. They feature prospects and low-tier fighters on their cards regularly. They have never had anything close to a star like Ronda. And they have never had a fighter as popular as even Tate.

There is no logic to your thinking. You might as well compare an all-male UFC card to the next Cage Warriors card if all you are going to compare is gender.

 

[Ragnarocker]

Casuals are dumb. Hardcores are cheapskates. At least one of them is supporting the product so that the sport can flourish.

I disagree with the hardcores being cheapskates. I own several MMA shirts and paid for several PPVs back when cards were worth the price. If the UFC wants to cater to casuals we'll see how long they stick around when their favorites like Ronda and Conor Mc leave for greener pastures or lose a fight. They'd be smarter to build a loyal hardcore following but with Dana and LoFert in charge its probably too late to ever achieve that.

 

[Rational Poster]

What does me (some guy) buying cards or the UFC owing anyone anything have to do with the UFC charging people for an Invicta card being a horrible idea?

UFC 195: You don't buy it anyway; we owe you nothing.
Cain/Bigfoot III
Penn/Edgar IV
Tito/Forrest IV
Arlovski/Buentello II

I think the point he's trying to make is that if you're not a paying customer what you think really doesn't matter.

I disagree with the hardcores being cheapskates. I own several MMA shirts and paid for several PPVs back when cards were worth the price. If the UFC wants to cater to casuals we'll see how long they stick around when their favorites like Ronda and Conor Mc leave for greener pastures or lose a fight. They'd be smarter to build a loyal hardcore following but with Dana and LoFert in charge its probably too late to ever achieve that.

Please tell me about the greener pastures that you speak of.

I'm very interested.

 

[Scamrock]

I disagree with the hardcores being cheapskates. I own several MMA shirts and paid for several PPVs back when cards were worth the price. If the UFC wants to cater to casuals we'll see how long they stick around when their favorites like Ronda and Conor Mc leave for greener pastures or lose a fight. They'd be smarter to build a loyal hardcore following but with Dana and LoFert in charge its probably too late to ever achieve that.

I consider myself hardcore. I still support the product. I used to buy dvds. Now I have Fight Pass. I have a few shirts. I get PPVs (sometimes I go out to watch or chip in with friends).

My point was, if hardcore fans want to have their way over casual fans, they are going to have to support the fighters they like as much as the casuals support the ones they like. If not, of course they will cater to casual fans. But in reality, there are plenty of hardcore fans who like the same things as the casuals do. I want to watch Rousey and McGregor. But I just also will put down some to watch something like UFC 169 with two title fights, a title eliminator, two top 10 HWs, and a barn burner to open the main card.

It's funny, before Rousey and McGregor were a big deal, fans talked about how bad the UFC needed superstars to cross over into mainstream and bring in casual fans. They need superstars, they need superstars. Then all of a sudden, they have some, and some fans get pissed. I would think people would be happy. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

 

[Ragnarocker]

I consider myself hardcore. I still support the product. I used to buy dvds. Now I have Fight Pass. I have a few shirts. I get PPVs (sometimes I go out to watch or chip in with friends).

My point was, if hardcore fans want to have their way over casual fans, they are going to have to support the fighters they like as much as the casuals support the ones they like. If not, of course they will cater to casual fans. But in reality, there are plenty of hardcore fans who like the same things as the casuals do. I want to watch Rousey and McGregor. But I just also will put down some to watch something like UFC 169 with two title fights, a title eliminator, two top 10 HWs, and a barn burner to open the main card.

It's funny, before Rousey and McGregor were a big deal, fans talked about how bad the UFC needed superstars to cross over into mainstream and bring in casual fans. They need superstars, they need superstars. Then all of a sudden, they have some, and some fans get pissed. I would think people would be happy. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Some fans may have said that, but more (the hardcore) don't care about mainstream and casual fandom. The problem was and always will be with the greed of the UFC brass. They expanded too much, held too many cards with too few marquee fighters, and are looking for the quick payday, all while screwing the fighters who helped make them, all of which has turned off hardcore fans. Now they have this super-promotion of select fighters and try to sell cards based just on their star power. That's not how you build a fanbase.