ufc 126-standup breakdown (what say you)

devante

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we got four fights on the main card, all of which have some very competitive fights; an some very interesting storylines *stylistically technically physically strategically philosophically* in regards to the standup.

feel free to break it down-

silva v belfort

franklin v griffin

bader v jones

torres v banuelos


what say you

we did this awhile ago w/the evans/machida fight-evans/page fight-page/jardine; an had some very good analysis, hoping to get something like that this go around. Break down any you want or all of them....
 
I'm afraid the silva-belfort fight is going to be terribly boring. They are both notorious for not really being willing to be the first to engage. I see Silva outpointing Vitor with his kicks in a really slow paced fight.
 
silva v belfort
Two southpaws with identical reach.

Silva picks him apart on the feet - provided he withstands the early aggression and can avoid being taken down for the duration of the fight. Question over his psychology after Chael - will he doubt himself or come out looking to make a point?

Belfort - Question mark of ring-rust hanging over his head - question mark on conditioning - he should be fine, unless these 'uncertainties' upset his focus. He's got to really go after it. He's a huge confidence and momentum fighter.


Fighting is always extremely psychological. But in my opinion, this fight more so than others. These two are the best of the best. But there are a lot of external factors to this fight.



I'm afraid the silva-belfort fight is going to be terribly boring. They are both notorious for not really being willing to be the first to engage. I see Silva outpointing Vitor with his kicks in a really slow paced fight.
I disagree. Vitor is pretty aggressive. He'll come out swinging. IMHO.
 
I disagree. Vitor is pretty aggressive. He'll come out swinging. IMHO.

I think he has his moments where he is aggressive, he obviously is extremely explosive and fast. In his last few fights however he has seemed reluctant to engage IMO. I hope he can take out Silva though, that would be great :D Thats just my opinion. I also definitely agree with your talk about external factors, both these guys are going to have psychological issues with this fight.
 
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franklin v griffin:

griffin gonna look to lead with low kicks off of pawing jabs and jab/straight feints, if rich shells up near the fence he'll probably clinch up and work knees against the cage. franklin gonna go for the low kick counters, mix up the left to the body and head with takedown attempts. franklin's got the technical ability to land clean lefts on forrest a couple times a round and drop him, I expect him to win a decision even tho forrest will probably outland him.


bader v jones

jones wants to stay half the ring away doing spinning attacks or be super close range and use elbows, knees and mix them with clinch grappling. bader wants the mid range to mix his straights and overhands with his bullrush moves. expect bader to keep up a better work rate while looking like the more gassed guy. jones doesn't have the timing, form or accuracy to keep bader out of his favoured range consistently. hard to predict what happens because no one has put pressure on jones yet.

torres v banuelos

banuelos throws crazy wide punches and loads up a lot, also he likes to chase. torres has a huge reach as everyone knows and some good stiffness on his straight. also if banuelos comes in too fast torres is composed enough to take an angle and get a body lock and maybe a trip or some knees out of it. banuelos can win if he uses lots of feints and gets torres to play a defensive style and not have so much work rate
 
In his last few fights however he has seemed reluctant to engage IMO.
Hmm. If this is true, I'm not sure if it's good or bad for Vitor. I think he needs to go after Anderson, and I think he needs to be fluid and feel 'natural' doing it. I think if he is reluctant there's more of a chance he'll have one of those days when things just don't 'click' - every athlete has them, either sparring on the tennis court or football field (lol).
 
My predictions have sucked lately, but whatever, I am bored.

Silva v Belfort
Anytime Sivla fights a primarily stand-up fighter, we have seen the results. Belfort is a different animal, true, but nobody has the timing and footwork of Silva. Not to mention the power in every limb. I think he can control the range in this fight, and if Belfort gets too aggressive he'll be countered. Belfort on the other hand is very fast and powerful, even if his movement is less than spectacular his timing is great. I feel like he'll still be overmatched by Silva. Depending on Belforts conditioning I could see it going the distance... but I expect Silva to win by stoppage.

Franklin v Griffin
Last time Franklin fought (Chuck) I said he might be able to grind it out but couldn't generate the power to get a KO, and would be roughed up and eventually stopped by the tougher Liddell. Obviously Rich read that and got pissed. Now he is fighting a grinder that does not possess quite the handspeed or slick movement that Rich has. Both can put together good combinations but Rich tends to be tighter and crisper. Griffin is bigger and will try to maul Rich's legs. It will probably be a high output standup fight. Griffin has a pretty good clinch which has been a problem for Rich in the past. But Rich has more class overall and I think he'll get the SD.
 
wanted to reup for last sec opinions-commentary-analysis
 
im kinda curious how silva approaches belfort, in that rarely does anderson have to deal w/speed-explosiveness of anywhere near or superior to his caliber; shogun jones evans vera machida, are probably the only guys who have comparable ability and are close to his weight and he never faced any of them.

i know he is the more diverse-def skilled and tougher striker; but speed is always an issue and now its an issue for him, how does he react when a guy can get to him. Like how mayweather had issues w/judah-augustus; guys who weren't nearly as good, but guys whose attributes caused obv problems for him..at least until he adjusted.

i think this time we might have to see anderson make some adjustments standing, unlike other times where whatever he does works; i think belforts hands are more eff and vitor is big strong and physically tough, only question is he mentally tough and his conditioning.

most guys aren't good enough, fast enough to get in on silva and even if they do by some chance they lack the skills or ability to do much other than grapple; belfort should be able to do work mid/close range, at distance its not much of a competitive fight in my eyes.

will anderson drop his hands..etc; this aint forrest or rich franklin
 
Maybe. But Anderson's Countering ability will dominate anything that Vitor brings to the table. Yes he has incredible handspeed. But Anderson has in human reflexes and super human timing. And as we all know Timing > speed

true enough

BUT.........

in boxing we have two examples of speed trumping timing, at least initially; as i stated the mayweather/judah fight, judahs explosiveness-handspeed gave mayweather all sorts of fits UNTIL floyd got acclimated and adjusted. Another example is marquez v pacquiao one, where mannys explosiveness-handspeed gave marquez fits; until juan got acclimated and adjusted.

in both instances mayweather/marquez the far superior technicians w/ very good physical skillsets and timing; were really pushed/tested/hurt by guys who weren't their mental or technical equals, just because those guys had great great physical abilities (power-handspeed-footspeed-explosiveness).

an while vitor isn't as skilled, he is skilled; an he does have the advantage in regards to boxing, somewhat..those two things put together present issues for anderson.. so my question is will he have to adjust his initial approach or have to make infight adjustments. Since most of the time he does do either.
 
Point. Anderon really has only countered the Striking of Franklin, Irvin, Forrest, Damian, Cote, and Hendo. All who are slow as hell. So the question of the night is will Vitor's handspeed trump Anderson's counterpunching skill/ timing. I think the first few minutes are key for Vitor. He aint gonna last a 5 round war.

What about Forrest V Franklin? and Jones V Bader?

bader to me is pretty limited in his standup; he has all the tools of all round striking, but hasn't developed any fluidity or diversity in how he uses them or consistency in when he uses them.

his advantages are strength power durability and explosiveness, in the standup and his wrestling; but his holes, especially in his standup are numerous. He almost exclusively uses his hands, an he honestly isn't good enough w/them to get by w/that; from what i have seen his other tools are rudimentary at best, so his off repetoire is both predictable and counterable. Defenisively he is a liability at best, he gets hit by everyone; an by everyone i mean less than technical dynamic or refined strikers, keith jardine-eric schafer.

jones isn't a technician; but he seems to developing a pretty good foundation, more importantly he has exceptional timing-explosiveness-balance-reach-agility which allows him to circumvent his lack of tech/experience. Offensively to me he isn't consistent or steady, more of a fight in spots guy; def he is pretty aware..good sense of range..timing..counters and angles, not to mention his build helps support these things.

basically jones is gonna potshot, pick him off at range; an pick his spots to explode w/spinning back kicks, high kicks, backfists, spinning elbows, lead elbows, leaping knees and lead rights/etc. Baders only chance is to get inside, or at least midrange where he can bring his power to bear; as he has legitimate ko power and a decided strength adv over most at lhw. The problem w/that is that bader has no def; meaning he is gonna have to eat every single shot jones throws, while chasing him or trying to cut him off and while bader is durable..he isn't unstoppable and w/his poor conditioning i don't know that he can keep the pace or workrate necessary to get in stay in or land on jones.

At some point he will land, an we will find out what jones is about; if he can take a shot well or recover, then its a wrap for bader. This should be similar to the hammil fight, the diff being bader is more comfortable throwing, hits ALOT harder and isn't as adverse to getting hit as hammil.

Bader could catch him; but i think he lacks the refinement to put together the shots, set them up to breakdown jones def, or shutdown his off. More importantly i think he lacks the mobility and conditioning to do it the hard way, i.e. pressure and throw and take the punishment til he can land his own.

if jones can't take it though, its a wrap; same w/machida

sidenote-if bader attacks the body or can attack the body; then jones is really in for it,
 
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I could compare this to Vernon White vs Chuck Liddell.. White looked so much quicker light footed then Liddell and was causing Liddell some minor problems, but once Liddell adjusted, his accuracy/timing prevailed, with a one shot right cross ko..

I have a feeling this is how Belfort vs Silva may turn out, with Belfort very light and trying to keep Anderson from settling in to time Belfort, but sooner or later his guna get caught.. lights out..

my 2cents
 
I'm picking Silva to out-box Belfort to a decision.
 
yeah silva belfort is gonna be disappointing, a circle fest with Silva outpointing belfort
 
and Franklin v forrest?

Unless Forrest has gotten light years better/faster, or the broken arm really messed up Franklin, Ace has this one.

Ace has better timing than Forrest and has the mobility to use it. Even though Forrest is rugged, Franklin has enough pop in his hands to produce a KO.
 
Maybe. But Anderson's Countering ability will dominate anything that Vitor brings to the table. Yes he has incredible handspeed. But Anderson has in human reflexes and super human timing. And as we all know Timing > speed

you were right,

the one thing i can't believe is vitor decided to try to be patient and control dist w/ a guy whose whole game is timing, setups, execution, accuracy; didn't vitor learn anything from the sonnen fight, you don't potshot and technically strike w/anderson. You push the pace..you press him and keep him from finding the range, angles, timing he needs to dismantle you.

Its the equivalent of trying to box mayweather jr at range, or trying to fight lyoto machida at range; i don't know if vitor is just that arrogant or his team sucks at gameplanning, w/his phys and tech skillset he shouldve pressed anderson, gone for broke. But he decided he was gonna play the waiting game and outpoint outslick and out tech ANDERSON SILVA, great job on that one.

vitor w/all his physical abilities and standup skills got handled in a much quicker manner than two "wrestlers" henderson and sonnen were more effective in the standup and lasted longer on the feet than vitor belfort. WOOOOOOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SHAWN TOMPKINS IS LAUGHING HIS ASS OFF SOMEWHERE
 
bader to me is pretty limited in his standup; he has all the tools of all round striking, but hasn't developed any fluidity or diversity in how he uses them or consistency in when he uses them.

his advantages are strength power durability and explosiveness, in the standup and his wrestling; but his holes, especially in his standup are numerous. He almost exclusively uses his hands, an he honestly isn't good enough w/them to get by w/that; from what i have seen his other tools are rudimentary at best, so his off repetoire is both predictable and counterable. Defenisively he is a liability at best, he gets hit by everyone; an by everyone i mean less than technical dynamic or refined strikers, keith jardine-eric schafer.

jones isn't a technician; but he seems to developing a pretty good foundation, more importantly he has exceptional timing-explosiveness-balance-reach-agility which allows him to circumvent his lack of tech/experience. Offensively to me he isn't consistent or steady, more of a fight in spots guy; def he is pretty aware..good sense of range..timing..counters and angles, not to mention his build helps support these things.

basically jones is gonna potshot, pick him off at range; an pick his spots to explode w/spinning back kicks, high kicks, backfists, spinning elbows, lead elbows, leaping knees and lead rights/etc. Baders only chance is to get inside, or at least midrange where he can bring his power to bear; as he has legitimate ko power and a decided strength adv over most at lhw. The problem w/that is that bader has no def; meaning he is gonna have to eat every single shot jones throws, while chasing him or trying to cut him off and while bader is durable..he isn't unstoppable and w/his poor conditioning i don't know that he can keep the pace or workrate necessary to get in stay in or land on jones.

At some point he will land, an we will find out what jones is about; if he can take a shot well or recover, then its a wrap for bader. This should be similar to the hammil fight, the diff being bader is more comfortable throwing, hits ALOT harder and isn't as adverse to getting hit as hammil.

Bader could catch him; but i think he lacks the refinement to put together the shots, set them up to breakdown jones def, or shutdown his off. More importantly i think he lacks the mobility and conditioning to do it the hard way, i.e. pressure and throw and take the punishment til he can land his own.

if jones can't take it though, its a wrap; same w/machida

sidenote-if bader attacks the body or can attack the body; then jones is really in for it,

an i was right on this---

man bader really is limited, his striking limited, wrestling overrated and his submission game/ground game off his back is non existent...outworked...outclassed and outdone.
 
you were right,

the one thing i can't believe is vitor decided to try to be patient and control dist w/ a guy whose whole game is timing, setups, execution, accuracy; didn't vitor learn anything from the sonnen fight, you don't potshot and technically strike w/anderson. You push the pace..you press him and keep him from finding the range, angles, timing he needs to dismantle you.

Its the equivalent of trying to box mayweather jr at range, or trying to fight lyoto machida at range; i don't know if vitor is just that arrogant or his team sucks at gameplanning, w/his phys and tech skillset he shouldve pressed anderson, gone for broke. But he decided he was gonna play the waiting game and outpoint outslick and out tech ANDERSON SILVA, great job on that one.

vitor w/all his physical abilities and standup skills got handled in a much quicker manner than two "wrestlers" henderson and sonnen were more effective in the standup and lasted longer on the feet than vitor belfort. WOOOOOOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SHAWN TOMPKINS IS LAUGHING HIS ASS OFF SOMEWHERE

Honestly, I thought Belfort was being a little overrated coming into this. He's always a threat because of his physical skills, but has been inactive and hasn't beaten anyone noteworthy in recent time. Also, Belfort relies a lot on his physical game, you rarely see him out think his opponents in fights. It's just charge and use his speed/power to overwhelm people. Hard to go against one of the p4p best in the game when you've been inactive and untested in you're most recent fights.
 
All these fights make me want to work on my stand up and quickness of my strikes. Some amazing stuff!

Anderson silva is like the Muay Thai MMA king!! He reps it and looks spectacular again. My front kick doesnt look like that..yet.

On a different note, cerrone was sorta out of it tonight in victory of course which makes me angry because you can usually learn a lot when you watch his footwork and kicks
 
That front kick was much more karate than muay thai.
 
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