Tyson: Why wasn't he as successful as an amateur?

Discussion in 'Boxing Discussion' started by Footwork333, Oct 14, 2013.

  1. Footwork333

    Footwork333 Blue Belt

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    Hey guys, I've been wondering this for a long time. I know he won the National Golden Gloves so before anyone says "He was successful as an amateur' and he was, but he wasn't as successful as he was in the pro ranks. As a pro he stormed through everyone so why didn't he have this kind of success as an amateur? In the amateurs he still had D'Mato with him. What stood out to me is that Tyson lost to Henry Tillman twice as an amateur but he clobbered him in one round in their rematch in the pro's...

    I have a feeling it was because of Tyson's style which didn't lend itself for success in the amateurs. The best amateur style seems to be the point based style used by the K-Brothers where they use jabs and straight punches from a distance to continually score points.
     
  2. barmyone45**

    barmyone45** Banned Banned

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    According to Holyfield he was juiced up in the pro ranks it's difficult to say when precisely he started on the performance enhancers but he might not have been as well acquainted with them as an amateur and hadn't refined his use.
     
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  3. HOLA

    HOLA Red Belt

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    Probably because he was so young. Going for the 84 Olympics Tillman was 24 and Tyson was still a HS aged kid. When he fought Tillman as a pro he was around 24 himself by that point.
     
  4. Cracky

    Cracky Fanny Pack

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    He wasn't as successful because he had less time to get to people... got penalized for dipping to low which was crucial to his style.. had a pro style in a sport that rewards quantity over quality....That said, 24-3 in the ams aint bad... everybody in the ams loses..and most lose a lot... 3 losses aint bad.

    and I dont buy Tyson being on peds for a sec.. since he was a kid he was huge and fast... since he was first discovered.. he stayed around the same size and stayed fast.. he simply had better technique as he became more of a professional.
     
  5. soggyfist

    soggyfist Silver Belt

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    Agreed on the PEDs talk. When you get someone like Atlas whose despised Tyson for a long time now stating he was huge as kid in the early days that adds some legitimacy.
     
  6. Cracky

    Cracky Fanny Pack

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    [YT]SnIommJdbl0[/YT]


    Yeah.. I mean he looks every bit as big as Floyd Patterson ever was in this vid imo.. and he was just 16..

    Also.. he never really changed physique after he matured.. Holyfield was on the sauce to get to heavyweight.. but Tyson fought around the same weight his entire career..

    also.. he just wasn't committed enough to his body to do anything extra.. Tyson is the perfect example of somebody that relied on skill and natural abilities over outworking and out training his opponents.. PEDs for the most part, simply assist you in recovering more quickly so you can train more often and more strenuously. That work is what actually increases your performance..Tyson wasn't the hardest worker out there at any point in his career.. so peds don't make sense for him imo.. just doesn't fit
     
  7. soggyfist

    soggyfist Silver Belt

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    From what I remember Teddy stated Mike was 190lbs around 16-17 years old in his book.
     
  8. Maroli

    Maroli Brown Belt

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    Not only that, he was that weight with mostly muscle having had a s***** diet most of his life
     
  9. SuperLuigi

    SuperLuigi Black Belt

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    Didnt that guy go to HS with Randy Couture?
     
  10. Nal**

    Nal** Banned Banned

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    Yes, I was a teacher at that high school. Randy Couture and Mike Tyson had history in my class. Together they held an in-depth presentation about the french revolution and the impact it had on Europe. I gave them an A+, because they would always accompany me after school to the parking area. It was rough in the hood, but Mike and Randy would dish out some vicious takedowns and knockdowns in order to protect me.
     
  11. Jonny Ninja

    Jonny Ninja Brown Belt

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    Without knowing too much about his Ami career I would guess that it is to do with his fighting style. Ami is pretty much point fighting, 16oz glozes, headguards overly protective refs make it much more difficult to get the KO. With these things in place it is more than possible for a fighter with good technical ability and tight defence to outpoint him, as I cant see Mike fighting any other way than he did as a pro, head hunting! Imo amatuer and pro boxing are almost 2 different sports. You can be a great amatuer, but you need heart and durability in the pros (heavy hands help as well). This is why many technically sound Amis dont necessarilly make great pros
     
  12. Minowafanatic

    Minowafanatic Black Belt

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    They dont use 16oz gloves in the amateurs. It's 10 or 12oz.
     
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  13. Jonny Ninja

    Jonny Ninja Brown Belt

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    When I was an Amatuer I thought we did but that was between 15 - 20 years ago.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2013
  14. Cracky

    Cracky Fanny Pack

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    that's ludacrisp
     
  15. Cracky

    Cracky Fanny Pack

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    Yeah.. maybe you were super heavy division or something.. I know I never had to use training gloves in the ammies... I would train with 16-18 oz gloves just to make life easier on me when I was fighting for real though
     
  16. Spirit Breaker

    Spirit Breaker Purple Belt

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    He didn't spend much time there with under 30 fights and his age probably had a bit to do with it. I can't speak for how things were 30 years ago, but amateurs can be very different in subtle ways. The dipping below a certain level point deduction that was mentioned is one, shorter/fewer rounds, no points for body shots, and headgear and glove construction. The amateurs have been 10oz. or 12oz. as far as I know but the gloves have much more padding located in the knuckle portion. It's even more difficult to make a tight fist. Not sure if that makes a difference, but everything about Tyson's style was suited for the pro game.

    That's interesting. I have heard conflicting reports on how Tyson was as a teenager once he got with Cus, good and bad. Your version seems to be he was a good kid. What about Couture?
     
  17. Sano

    Sano Red Belt

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    I'm not entirely sure if it's my sarcasm meter that's broken or yours. That story is way too outrageous to be true.
     
  18. Spirit Breaker

    Spirit Breaker Purple Belt

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    Yeah I thought that perhaps I'm misinterpreting forum sarcasm, but I mean, it's just a question. If it isn't true then so what?

    I just googled Couture and saw he was from Washington. So most likely I was duped. Oh well.
     
  19. mozfonky

    mozfonky We oughta be fightin' a bottle of Geritol.

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    You already have the answer, a brawling style like Tyson's is not made for the ammies, not then and especially not now. Also, Tyson didn't have a long amateur career and didn't really give the ammies much time (smart) I think he had less than 40 ammie fights. Compared to most guys at that level in the era that was nothing. Cus thought the powers that be had it in for him and would shortchange tyson to get to him, he thought Tyson won the tillman fight hands down. That was cus' paranoia. I still, oddly enough, think Tyson could have been a fighter like camacho as a heavyweight and I always thought he stole some of his moves. Like Macho, he often fought guys four or five inches taller, now had he learned to use that phenomenal leg and hand speed to confuse and box guys instead of just to clobber them, he would have been a much more complete fighter. Maybe him learning to be a better boxer would have been good in the long run. The Tillman fight couldv'e went either way I thought. The gold for Mike, hmmm....maybe that would have made america accept him as less the neanderthal than they did from the git go. I mean, he couldn't have been bigger but people really looked at him as inhuman, maybe the gold wouldv'e softened that image.
     
  20. Lovci

    Lovci Green Belt

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    Because he wasn't as good as some make him out to be.
     

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