Tyrone Spong squats

[Phlog]

Serious?

Yeah. Just strength has little to do with it, you only push through a strike with bad form. Its about getting every mover in the kinetic chain to be at its fastest point all at moment of impact.

Training large weights relatively slow teaches the CNS to fire slow, even using 10 oz gloves all the time is bad, ya gotta shadow box to bring back up the speed.

So yeah, powerlifting compound movements are definitely good for fighting but not so much specifically for the striking part of it. IMO.

 

[Eric Brown]

Yeah. Just strength has little to do with it, you only push through a strike with bad form. Its about getting every mover in the kinetic chain to be at its fastest point all at moment of impact.

Training large weights relatively slow teaches the CNS to fire slow, even using 10 oz gloves all the time is bad, ya gotta shadow box to bring back up the speed.

So yeah, powerlifting compound movements are definitely good for fighting but not so much specifically for the striking part of it. IMO.

By powerlifting movements, I assume you mean the squat, bench press and deadlift, all of which were around long before powerlifting?

Only maximal weights are slow, because well, it is hard to move them quickly. That being said, I have no idea where you came up with the above.

One: bone strength. Relationship between increases in bone mineral density and loads lifted. No surprise there.

Two: CNS. You do not teach it to fire slow. This is utter horseshit. Greatest improvements in motor unit recruitment, rate coding and inter- and intra-muscular coordination are all seen at weights in excess of 90% of the 1rm. This is so clearly documented I do not know where to start. You might wish to start with Science and Practice of Strength Training, by Zatsiorsky.

You could not be more wrong.

 

[Dan O]

Pffffft nonsense.

Stronger = slower.

C'mon Eric. Elementary shit here

 

[Eric Brown]

Sorry, forgot.


Mea culpa.

 

[Phlog]

By powerlifting movements, I assume you mean the squat, bench press and deadlift, all of which were around long before powerlifting?

Only maximal weights are slow, because well, it is hard to move them quickly. That being said, I have no idea where you came up with the above.

One: bone strength. Relationship between increases in bone mineral density and loads lifted. No surprise there.

Two: CNS. You do not teach it to fire slow. This is utter horseshit. Greatest improvements in motor unit recruitment, rate coding and inter- and intra-muscular coordination are all seen at weights in excess of 90% of the 1rm. This is so clearly documented I do not know where to start. You might wish to start with Science and Practice of Strength Training, by Zatsiorsky.

You could not be more wrong.

OK, will check it out, thanks.

 

[KnightTemplar]

Why is it hard to believe he can squat 405? I cannot see the video, so I can't really comment, but 405 seems like a pretty reasonable number a pro athlete to hit.

Pro Athletes will train to the specific demands of their Sport. If that means heavy Squatting, then so be it. But many Sports, including MMA, do not require high levels of Maximal Strength.

Just because someone is a Pro Athlete, it doesn't mean they are going to Squat 2 x BW. In terms of his domination of the sport, Michael Jordon is one of the greatest athletes in history, but that doesn't mean he was Lifting heavy during his playing career.

 

[miaou]

Explosiveness in powerlifting movements and explosiveness in striking are two completely different things.

One is going from relaxation to explosive tension, then relaxation again. The other is working on the rate of force development. Not to mention that power production in striking involves very specific motor recruitment and inter-muscular coordination patters.

Squatting could certainly help you in the acceleration phase of a sprint, and it could help you in your standing vertical. But beyond the max strength work making sure your muscles are firing properly (i.e. not inhibited), you being able to stabilize your core well and helping you increase your leg muscle mass if you're looking to gain weight, they don't help that much in the striking department. That is clearly attested by actual sports practice (elite strikers and kick-boxers don't devote much time to heavy lifting).

 

[Tosa]

Not to mention the difference in training power for unloaded movements, like striking, versus power with moderate or heavy loads. I'd see squatting, or any other heavy lifting, as being generally more important for grappling than striking.

 

[miaou]

Not to mention the difference in training power for unloaded movements, like striking, versus power with moderate or heavy loads.

This is also true.

Striking and powerlifting are almost on the exact opposite sides of the strength-speed curve.

 

[KnightTemplar]

Not to mention the difference in training power for unloaded movements, like striking, versus power with moderate or heavy loads. I'd see squatting, or any other heavy lifting, as being generally more important for grappling than striking.

This is also true.

Striking and powerlifting are almost on the exact opposite sides of the strength-speed curve.

Agreed. Technique is king, in both Grappling and Striking Arts. But there is more opportunity to apply strength through the techniques of Grappling than of Striking.

Traditionally, Boxers have rarely done any Strength Training beyond Body Weight exercises. Although I recall seeing photos of Ali training in the Catskill Mountains by chopping down trees with an axe.

 

[Sano]

Agreed. Technique is king, in both Grappling and Striking Arts. But there is more opportunity to apply strength through the techniques of Grappling than of Striking.

Traditionally, Boxers have rarely done any Strength Training beyond Body Weight exercises. Although I recall seeing photos of Ali training in the Catskill Mountains by chopping down trees with an axe.

Chopping wood/chopping trees is oldschool martial arts S&C. Especially chopping wood simulates punching reasonable. I mean, you work your lats and delts, not to mention bracing/stabilizing your core, you are moving relative light weight(the axe) and you are going from relaxed, to tension, to relaxed. Simular to sledgehammering on a tire, without the bounce. Or medicine ball slams.

I still think working on proper punching and the neurological pathways in that regard is more effective, but I guess that you can recruite a higher number of motor units with chopping wood.

 

[Deleted member 382931]

I'd imagine chopping wood and sledge work are similiar to a rotational throw. You accelerate all the way through the strike and then have to absorb the recoil by bracing when you hit resistance, similiar to an olympic lift.

Altough the pattern would have better carry-over for punches than kicks. I don't have enough experience with punching to make a devinitive claim, but this is my observation from years of kicking and chopping wood.

 

[Chungungo]

Not to mention the difference in training power for unloaded movements, like striking, versus power with moderate or heavy loads. I'd see squatting, or any other heavy lifting, as being generally more important for grappling than striking.

I have seen that , once I did a powerlifting routine while eating like a pig, got bigger but slower as hell for punching while my grip was strong in Judo ...

Chopping wood/chopping trees is oldschool martial arts S&C. Especially chopping wood simulates punching reasonable. I mean, you work your lats and delts, not to mention bracing/stabilizing your core, you are moving relative light weight(the axe) and you are going from relaxed, to tension, to relaxed. Simular to sledgehammering on a tire, without the bounce. Or medicine ball slams.

I still think working on proper punching and the neurological pathways in that regard is more effective, but I guess that you can recruite a higher number of motor units with chopping wood.

Interesting that I heard somewhere that there is something very little I can not explain that makes chopping wood better than sledgehammer---

 

[Sano]

Interesting that I heard somewhere that there is something very little I can not explain that makes chopping wood better than sledgehammer---

Maybe because there is no rebound, a hard stop and you have to brace your core more with wood chopping? I'm wondering if there is some helpful myotatic reflex or stretch shortening cycle work going on with the slegdehammer on a tire though. In reality, I'm guessing and don't know. Would be cool to hear some of the more knowledgable chime in.

 

[Chungungo]

Maybe because there is no rebound, a hard stop and you have to brace your core more with wood chopping? I'm wondering if there is some helpful myotatic reflex or stretch shortening cycle work going on with the slegdehammer on a tire though. In reality, I'm guessing and don't know. Would be cool to hear some of the more knowledgable chime in.

Yeah something like that, something technical haha but sledgehammer is still very effective to get power as the starting movement is similar...

 

[Tosa]

I have seen that , once I did a powerlifting routine while eating like a pig, got bigger but slower as hell for punching while my grip was strong in Judo ...

I'd suggest that maybe it was the eating like a pig, and other training elements that made you slower. Powerlifting won't do much to make a striker faster, but it shouldn't make someone slower.

 

[Eric Brown]

I'd suggest that maybe it was the eating like a pig, and other training elements that made you slower. Powerlifting won't do much to make a striker faster, but it shouldn't make someone slower.

Amazing how adding mass to move makes you move slower.

I imagine that if one were to wear a weighted vest they might move more slowly too. Nah, only powerlifting does this, not the added weight.

 

[Chungungo]

I'd suggest that maybe it was the eating like a pig, and other training elements that made you slower. Powerlifting won't do much to make a striker faster, but it shouldn't make someone slower.

Yeah I understand but the lifting is kind of slower and by eating got bigger, stronger but slower, after that I lost some weight and started doing olympic weightlifting and there I gain some explosiveness for Judo

 

[Fenderson]

Yeah I understand but the lifting is kind of slower and by eating got bigger, stronger but slower, after that I lost some weight and started doing olympic weightlifting and there I gain some explosiveness for Judo

So you put on weight, got fatter became slower and you think it was the powerlifting that did it? Ok.

 

[bad seed]

Every time I see this thread, that guy talking in the vid gets stuck in my head and my god hes so annoying.

IM TRYINNA TELL YOU, ALL WE DO IS GRIIIIIIIND! ALL WE DO IS WORK, BOY O MOMMA ALL WE DO IS GRIND! LETS GO T!