Crime Two LASD Deputies shot in the head; BLM protestors try to go in hospital

[Social Distance Warrior]

There is direct evidence of corruption within LASD, let’s not pretend like bad cops getting shot over drugs is a unicorn event. I’m not saying that’s what happened, but you can’t say the motivation was BLM either.

ok then. $500 dollar wager? via Paypal?

which is more likely?

answer that.

 

[moosaev]

I mean, you can say that's the "vibe" you're getting but if you read what I wrote, I think some of the things you mentioned (which of course I've seen piecemeal in other places) are ideas that can be implemented. On the flipside, you don't want to seem to acknowledge (or at least that's the "vibe" I'm getting) that the pure nature of the job and dealing with people daily who are NOT abiding by society's rules IS incredibly difficult. And if you make the wrong choice, it's not like other professions. You might not get a tomorrow. And the current climate is so anti-police that they're viewed as the enemy, even if the majority are trying to help. Their authority isn't even recognized by plenty of people at this point (especially among those who do break the law or are having the cops called on them). Yet they are still expected to go into these situations and deal with them.

So yes, some changes in certain areas are a good idea. But throwing the baby out with the bathwater? You completely and utterly neuter a cop's ability to do their job, who will actually agree to DO the job? Good cops will leave and find something to do that doesn't put their safety in jeopardy all the time. You'll be left with the worst and least capable of them. Which benefits...nobody.

And your line about rioting vs lawfully changing things...how is that frustrating for you? I'm literally watching giant corporations advertise for BLM nonstop on my TV. This movement has all the attention that any movement could possibly hope for, and the changes that you are advocating for come about by voting in politicians that believe in that cause. So...here's the moment, vote. Don't go burn down a black owned business to "make your point". You think it's frustrating for YOU?? How about the couple who have dealt with racism their whole lives and still succeeded in creating a happy life and thriving business only to see it ruined by rioters who would make more lasting change by organizing ways to "Get out the vote" and things like that.

Corporate piggy back riding on BLM is absolutely meaningless.

“Get out the vote” is also meaningless because our political structure is not designed for substantive change, it’s designed only for incremental change. Therefore the only way substantive change can happen is if a significant portion of “the other side” has a change of heart and decides that a change MUST happen. Right now there are swathes of complacent right of center white people who need to be on board for anything to happen, but they literally do not give a shit. In fact a good portion of them are gleeful about the notion of black folks getting shafted. So we’re at an impasse.

 

[moosaev]

ok then. $500 dollar wager? via Paypal?

which is more likely?

answer that.

Right now I’d have to say the Rampart scenario is most likely. But I’m not really a bettor, sorry man.

 

[BehindTheShadows]

Nobody forced them to become cops bud. Black folks on the other hand didn’t choose to get profiled.

Stupidest answer possible without putting yourself in their shoes bud

 

[moosaev]

Stupidest answer possible without putting yourself in their shoes bud

Ok bud.

 

[mkess101]

Corporate piggy back riding on BLM is absolutely meaningless.

“Get out the vote” is also meaningless because our political structure is not designed for substantive change, it’s designed only for incremental change. Therefore the only way substantive change can happen is if a significant portion of “the other side” has a change of heart and decides that a change MUST happen. Right now there are swathes of complacent right of center white people who need to be on board for anything to happen, but they literally do not give a shit. In fact a good portion of them are gleeful about the notion of black folks getting shafted. So we’re at an impasse.

Sometimes incremental change is the best you can hope for. You think rioting and burning (and again I'll repeat, often BLACK OWNED) businesses is going to "change hearts and minds" to the point where these "right of center white people" agree that ripping police departments across the country down to the studs is a good idea?

I live in a mostly white, upper middle class suburb. For the last 2 years, across our entire area we have a large group of youths who roam around and steal cars. They are mostly black kids, there may be a couple that are white or latino. (I say kids, the ages range from 13 to 25 evidently). They steal cars from people's garages and driveways. They'll use garage door openers from unlocked cars in driveways, then enter the house through the garage if that door is open. They'll then take keys off hooks, etc. They joyride the cars, most of the time completely trash them, then ditch them. They've been caught a bunch of times, arrested, then let go within hours. The DA simply refuses to prosecute. They haven't caught all of them, but I know for a fact one 17 year old has been arrested SIX times for it and never charged. Recently, they escalated things. They dropped a cell phone on the lawn at a house they'd stolen a car from. When they went back for it, the people who lived in the house "confronted them" by yelling at them from their porch. How did the kids respond? By opening fire at these people. Luckily they were bad shots and missed them, though one shot only missed the lady by about a foot as she scrambled back inside. So...now it's attempted murder and they have pretty good images on the doorbell camera, but of course no arrests made on this one.

The reason I'm telling this anecdotal story is because I wonder how you think those people (affluent white folks), and people in their neighborhood and this entire town (hell this whole area) feel about the situation? Do they want less police authority? Do they feel these car thieves that don't even get charged with crimes and get to keep doing the same thing over and over are being "shafted"? When the ante is upped to now being shot at by this group while yelling at them from your front porch because they stole your car, are you feeling deep sympathy for how they'd be treated if they were to be caught and arrested?

These are likely some of the EXACT people you think need to have a huge change of heart (I say some because the area probably leans a bit to the left despite it being mostly white and somewhat affluent). Do you think seeing the same people get to do the same crimes over and over without ever being charged is going to bring sympathy to the cause from those that are needed to be "on board"?

 

[moosaev]

Sometimes incremental change is the best you can hope for. You think rioting and burning (and again I'll repeat, often BLACK OWNED) businesses is going to "change hearts and minds" to the point where these "right of center white people" agree that ripping police departments across the country down to the studs is a good idea?

I live in a mostly white, upper middle class suburb. For the last 2 years, across our entire area we have a large group of youths who roam around and steal cars. They are mostly black kids, there may be a couple that are white or latino. (I say kids, the ages range from 13 to 25 evidently). They steal cars from people's garages and driveways. They'll use garage door openers from unlocked cars in driveways, then enter the house through the garage if that door is open. They'll then take keys off hooks, etc. They joyride the cars, most of the time completely trash them, then ditch them. They've been caught a bunch of times, arrested, then let go within hours. The DA simply refuses to prosecute. They haven't caught all of them, but I know for a fact one 17 year old has been arrested SIX times for it and never charged. Recently, they escalated things. They dropped a cell phone on the lawn at a house they'd stolen a car from. When they went back for it, the people who lived in the house "confronted them" by yelling at them from their porch. How did the kids respond? By opening fire at these people. Luckily they were bad shots and missed them, though one shot only missed the lady by about a foot as she scrambled back inside. So...now it's attempted murder and they have pretty good images on the doorbell camera, but of course no arrests made on this one.

The reason I'm telling this anecdotal story is because I wonder how you think those people (affluent white folks), and people in their neighborhood and this entire town (hell this whole area) feel about the situation? Do they want less police authority? Do they feel these car thieves that don't even get charged with crimes and get to keep doing the same thing over and over are being "shafted"? When the ante is upped to now being shot at by this group while yelling at them from your front porch because they stole your car, are you feeling deep sympathy for how they'd be treated if they were to be caught and arrested?

These are likely some of the EXACT people you think need to have a huge change of heart (I say some because the area probably leans a bit to the left despite it being mostly white and somewhat affluent). Do you think seeing the same people get to do the same crimes over and over without ever being charged is going to bring sympathy to the cause from those that are needed to be "on board"?

Sometimes incremental change is the best you can hope for. You think rioting and burning (and again I'll repeat, often BLACK OWNED) businesses is going to "change hearts and minds" to the point where these "right of center white people" agree that ripping police departments across the country down to the studs is a good idea?

I live in a mostly white, upper middle class suburb. For the last 2 years, across our entire area we have a large group of youths who roam around and steal cars. They are mostly black kids, there may be a couple that are white or latino. (I say kids, the ages range from 13 to 25 evidently). They steal cars from people's garages and driveways. They'll use garage door openers from unlocked cars in driveways, then enter the house through the garage if that door is open. They'll then take keys off hooks, etc. They joyride the cars, most of the time completely trash them, then ditch them. They've been caught a bunch of times, arrested, then let go within hours. The DA simply refuses to prosecute. They haven't caught all of them, but I know for a fact one 17 year old has been arrested SIX times for it and never charged. Recently, they escalated things. They dropped a cell phone on the lawn at a house they'd stolen a car from. When they went back for it, the people who lived in the house "confronted them" by yelling at them from their porch. How did the kids respond? By opening fire at these people. Luckily they were bad shots and missed them, though one shot only missed the lady by about a foot as she scrambled back inside. So...now it's attempted murder and they have pretty good images on the doorbell camera, but of course no arrests made on this one.

The reason I'm telling this anecdotal story is because I wonder how you think those people (affluent white folks), and people in their neighborhood and this entire town (hell this whole area) feel about the situation? Do they want less police authority? Do they feel these car thieves that don't even get charged with crimes and get to keep doing the same thing over and over are being "shafted"? When the ante is upped to now being shot at by this group while yelling at them from your front porch because they stole your car, are you feeling deep sympathy for how they'd be treated if they were to be caught and arrested?

These are likely some of the EXACT people you think need to have a huge change of heart (I say some because the area probably leans a bit to the left despite it being mostly white and somewhat affluent). Do you think seeing the same people get to do the same crimes over and over without ever being charged is going to bring sympathy to the cause from those that are needed to be "on board"?

Firstly, you seem to think I support burning down businesses as a strategy to affect change, I don’t. I’m only explaining to you that the pent up anger will predictably be let out if all avenues of substantive change are closed off, even if only for the temporary catharsis it brings.

As far as the neighborhood you’re referring to, please tell me why a middle class black doctor has to get pulled over and harassed for the folks in your particular neighborhood to feel safe? Specific anecdotes around very limited geographical areas simply do not compare to the nation wide systemic abuse of power minority communities have endured in this country for decades upon decades. Is it acceptable to give cops unfettered authority so that some folks in the suburbs feel safe? I assure you that your neighborhood police department that absolutely refuses to arrest a kid who discharges a weapon at someone, is a statistical outlier. Discharging a weapon at someone is a serious serious offense. You have black kids in many neighborhoods across this country that are arrested for absolutely frivolous reasons. By most indications that is closer to the norm than your neighborhood. Also, I don’t accept the false choice being peddled by conservatives that it’s either 100% support for the police or total anarchy and lawlessness. We can have police reform AND still have cops that have enough authority to enforce the law.

Finally, incremental change just won’t cut it. Insisting on only incremental change is a tacit acceptance that things won’t really change much at all, and essentially the black community will just have to accept the constant harassment and targeting. We all know where that’s gonna lead.

 

[mkess101]

Firstly, you seem to think I support burning down businesses as a strategy to affect change, I don’t. I’m only explaining to you that the pent up anger will predictably be let out if all avenues of substantive change are closed off, even only for temporary catharsis it brings.

As far as the neighborhood you’re referring to, please tell me why a middle class black doctor has to get pulled over and harassed for the folks in that particular neighborhood to feel safe? Specific anecdotes around very limited geographical areas simply do not compare to the nation wide systemic abuse of power minority communities have endured in this country for decades upon decades. Is it acceptable to give cops unfettered authority so that some folks in the suburbs feel safe? I assure you that this neighborhood police department that absolutely refuses to arrest a kid who discharges a weapon at someone, is a statistical outlier. You have black kids in many neighborhoods across this country that are arrested for absolutely frivolous reasons. By most indications that is closer to the norm than your neighborhood.

Finally, incremental change just won’t cut it. Insisting on only incremental change is a tacit acceptance that things won’t really change much at all, and essentially the black community will just have to accept the constant harassment and targeting. We all know where that’s gonna lead.

This group is associated with a much larger group. The affiliation is loose, but they've captured social media messages among a huge group that are doing this throughout the entire midwest. Indiana, Illinois, Wisconsin, Iowa, Minnesota confirmed. Probably Michigan and Ohio too. They brag about what type of car they boosted on Facebook, then brag about how quickly they were released after being arrested and not charged.

For the record, I didn't say the cops won't arrest the ones who were shooting at those people. They just haven't yet. I'd like to believe it's because they haven't found them.

And there's a middle ground between "unfettered authority" and gutting every police dept to the point where it's not just us whities in the burbs, but everyone who doesn't feel safe. And if you think the police are the biggest threat specifically to the safety of black people, you are delusional as well. Multitudes more black people are murdered every year by other civilians than by cops. If you neuter the police, you really think there won't be negative consequences for black people like there are for other races?

 

[therealdope]

Fucking hell. Hope its not anyone I know. Got a handful of friends there.

Its shit times to be in Law Enforcement. Sadly there will be plenty of assholes cheering their deaths in this current climate.

(Rumor mill is they succumbed to their injuries, but not confirmed.)

Stay safe brother.

 

[moosaev]

And if you think the police are the biggest threat specifically to the safety of black people, you are delusional as well. Multitudes more black people are murdered every year by other civilians than by cops. If you neuter the police, you really think there won't be negative consequences for black people like there are for other races?

See, this is a completely erroneous statement that derives from a crass stereotype many white people have that most black folks must live in the ghetto around gangbangers. This is utterly false. South side Chicago is not representative of the average black experience, it’s important for white people to know this. Most black people are more afraid of the police than they are of gangbangers, that is a FACT. Most black people will never get caught in an urban crossfire, but they will get stopped/harassed by cops, that is a FACT. So this suggestion that blacks need cops to save them from “black on black crime” is completely silly notion based on a misunderstanding of the average black experience.

These harmful stereotypes you have are honestly indicative of the social discord we’re subsumed in. Some of your earlier points are now making sense to me based on what I gather is your default image of black society.

Also, I’m extremely skeptical of this so called multi state organized joyriding gang made up of 12 to 17 yr olds that somehow has law enforcement befuddled. It does not sound credible at all. Keep in mind there are a lot of myths about crime out there, much of them rooted in racist stereotyping. The knockout game a few years ago comes to mind (see below).

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/3729635

 

[Brodels]

Nobody is condoning anything buttercup. Now behave yourself or you’ll get banned.

You did and are you personally going to ban me?

 

[KnightTemplar]

Corporate piggy back riding on BLM is absolutely meaningless.

“Get out the vote” is also meaningless because our political structure is not designed for substantive change, it’s designed only for incremental change. Therefore the only way substantive change can happen is if a significant portion of “the other side” has a change of heart and decides that a change MUST happen. Right now there are swathes of complacent right of center white people who need to be on board for anything to happen, but they literally do not give a shit. In fact a good portion of them are gleeful about the notion of black folks getting shafted. So we’re at an impasse.

Fair point. That's exactly my view on racism; I don't give a shit because I got my own problems.

 

[Ramon Antonio]

Nobody forced them to become cops bud. Black folks on the other hand didn’t choose to get profiled.

Groups that are being profiled are a victim of people of that same group committing a disproportionate amount of crimes. If you have limited resources, you have to focus your efforts on those places / people who are most likely to commit crimes.

If black people stopped committing crimes at that rate, the resources would be focused elsewhere after a while.

 

[ElKarlo]

Corporate piggy back riding on BLM is absolutely meaningless.

“Get out the vote” is also meaningless because our political structure is not designed for substantive change, it’s designed only for incremental change. Therefore the only way substantive change can happen is if a significant portion of “the other side” has a change of heart and decides that a change MUST happen. Right now there are swathes of complacent right of center white people who need to be on board for anything to happen, but they literally do not give a shit. In fact a good portion of them are gleeful about the notion of black folks getting shafted. So we’re at an impasse.

No real change was on the table in may and June. Riots made reasonable people say no. BLM whale warred their movement and made it awful. Now instead of change, reasonable don't want what BLM is smoking

 

[milkmandanl]

notice how he won't take my bet?

these anti cop folk are utterly despicable.

im thinking about taking it...need a little time to research...dirty cops have always existed...groups of dirty cops have always existed....Serpico, Rampart Division...hell, my ole stomping grounds in NOLA had a female cop rob a store with another gang banger and shot and killed her partner who responded...lemme chew oN this...In the meantime... no to a cash bet...explain how a sig bet works...i get the gist of it but enlighten me...perhaps soMething like..."The milkman always delivers his milk to my back door while i squeal with joy"

 

[Fox by the Sea]

@moosaev having a meltdown in here over people not cheering for those cops to die?

 

[ImCertainOfCirkunov]

So, let me get this straight: because there are historical examples of some cops (very small percentage) being "bad" and "dirty", some of you ITT feel its most likely that these two random cops were shot specifically for that reason? Yet you have nothing else to back your reasoning?

Yeah that's fucking retarded. And to those who are dead sure this crime was committed by "BLM", you're no better. None of you fuckwits has any clue why this crime occurred nor who committed it.

I will say though, anyone justifying this shooting or snickering about it because "fuck the pigs", you are total and complete scum.

 

[ImCertainOfCirkunov]

Double post

 

[moosaev]

No real change was on the table in may and June. Riots made reasonable people say no. BLM whale warred their movement and made it awful. Now instead of change, reasonable don't want what BLM is smoking

Lmao, change was never coming. Even if BLM was all milk and honey kumbaya, nothing was/is ever going change. Pressure busts pipes, uncontrolled anger and despair will let itself out one way or another.

 

[moosaev]

Groups that are being profiled are a victim of people of that same group committing a disproportionate amount of crimes. If you have limited resources, you have to focus your efforts on those places / people who are most likely to commit crimes.

If black people stopped committing crimes at that rate, the resources would be focused elsewhere after a while.

As has been mentioned before, the majority of blacks don’t live in high crime areas like the south side of Chicago, that’s a myth. The huge numbers of middle class black people who live in low/moderate crime areas deal with bullshit from police also. As do rich black people in extremely low crime areas. Your logic doesn’t hold water bud.