turning your back on an opponent after missing a kick

[SpineBreaker]

It drives me crazy. It's such a needlessly risky thing to do...but no one ever tries to use it to their advantage.

Just last week or so, I did several matches against a black belt that I practice with regularly, and 2 or 3 times, I somehow ended up with my back turned, and he ended it there. I didn't know how I got spun around, and one time he even had a hand on my back to prevent me from turning around right away.

It is absolutely necessary to keep your eyes on your opponent in a fight. You wouldn't turn your back on a highly skilled fighter, and you sure don't want to underestimate someone and think you can get away with it, then end up getting clocked, do you? So don't do it. Learn how to control your body and still throw a powerful kick. You'll only get better.

And don't worry about that spinning back fist. The ref told you to protect yourself at all times, remember?

 

[Snubnoze707]

I have never seen a Thai spin completely around after a missed kick.

This.

If only Payak was here to back us up!

 

[Discipulus]

I think the full spin is more of a carry-over into the Dutch style from Japanese kickboxing and Kyokushin. Honestly, a lot of people spin more gracefully than they stop, and their recovery is quicker. Sometimes I spin if I completely whiff a hard kick. I prefer to stop part way through, though, to set up the side kick.

 

[DivineComedy]

I think the full spin is more of a carry-over into the Dutch style from Japanese kickboxing and Kyokushin. Honestly, a lot of people spin more gracefully than they stop, and their recovery is quicker. Sometimes I spin if I completely whiff a hard kick. I prefer to stop part way through, though, to set up the side kick.

This. I use the miss of a circular kick, chamber the leg to really help drive the linear sidekick!

 

[sourdiesel209]

Isnt it the classical Muay thai way of shadowboxing, throwing a roundhouse, spinning with it then check as soon as u finish the spin??

 

[Cyclone Mike]

Buakaw never spins more than 180 degrees. This is how I've seen the Thais do it, although having started muay thai in the US I was confused the first time I was told not to spin all the way around.

 

[Discipulus]

Isnt it the classical Muay thai way of shadowboxing, throwing a roundhouse, spinning with it then check as soon as u finish the spin??

No, it's a westernized Muay Thai thing. I believe it comes from Karate. I've seen Kyokushin guys spin around after kicks.

 

[SummerStriker]

I guess he's shadow boxing 4 people, because he spins 180 and has no problem finding something to hit in the new direction. It doesn't solve the problem.

 

[NAKMUAY18]

I guess he's shadow boxing 4 people, because he spins 180 and has no problem finding something to hit in the new direction. It doesn't solve the problem.

Spinning 180 then stopping shows control, not randomly whipping his kicks and unable to stop his motion.
Nearly every top level Muay Thai practitioner I've ever seen has done it this way, if you feel like you can do better, by all means continue with what your doing

 

[Bay Area]

Sometimes I spin around twice after the roundhouse. Not for strategic purposes mind you. It just looks really cool.

 

[Ryukyu Damashi]

So many things wrong with this kick.



See the difference between Coban's shadowboxing and the American?

 

[Bay Area]

This.

If only Payak was here to back us up!

He was this forum's premire source and its cofirmation on anything Thai related. If he confirmed it, than it was true. I mean afterall, the man was born and raised there. What's the point of arguing right?

 

[Muay o Muay]

turning your back on an opponent is a big no no in muay thai in any way its seen as a sign of weakness from a scoring perspective in a missed kick scenario by turning you are also emphasising the fact you miss timed and your opponent evaded your kick which makes you look bad to the judges plus against a decent thai you will get countered im sure payak would agree!

 

[SAAMAG]

So many things wrong with this kick.

It looks...aw nevermind. It's just not a thai kick period.

See the difference between Coban's shadowboxing and the American?

I like Coban's style, because he's shorter and stockier. The guy in the middle on that vid was actually making the "mistake" that's being discussed even after Coban corrected him over and again.

 

[SummerStriker]

Took me a half an hour of watching pro muay thai to find even one kick miss, teep or otherwise.

The guy hops his support foot away while stopping the kick to make the circle wider and keep his kick from passing too far in front.

I was starting to think missing a kick in MT was just an academic discussion, but once in a blue moon someone does dodge it.

If I can find some better quality images, I'll be able to practice it. What this guy managed in the ring doesn't seem to be from practice though - not from spinning through, nor from imagining a fight with 4 helpfully placed men.

 

[SAAMAG]

I guess he's shadow boxing 4 people, because he spins 180 and has no problem finding something to hit in the new direction. It doesn't solve the problem.

Took me a half an hour of watching pro muay thai to find even one kick miss, teep or otherwise.

The guy hops his support foot away while stopping the kick to make the circle wider and keep his kick from passing too far in front.

I was starting to think missing a kick in MT was just an academic discussion, but once in a blue moon someone does dodge it.

If I can find some better quality images, I'll be able to practice it. What this guy managed in the ring doesn't seem to be from practice though - not from spinning through, nor from imagining a fight with 4 helpfully placed men.

Who exactly are you speaking of? Buakaw? Or Thai fighters in general?

 

[SummerStriker]

Who exactly are you speaking of? Buakaw? Or Thai fighters in general?

I'm not sure I was watching anyone inpartcular. Buakaw was in one of the videos, and no, neither he nor his opponent failed to make contact with a single kick.

Here is the first and only miss I've seen so far.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0LqhyX6j34&t=1m41s

And it isn't what I thought it was. He sort of steps into the pivot and never commits any rotation to it anyway, like he knew it was going to miss when he threw it. If I was going to kick like that I'd just use a TKD kick.

 

[SAAMAG]

You can kick with power...miss, and not 180* spin in the Thai method of kicking. There's a simple bio-mechanical reason and something that hasn't been mentioned yet. What did you notice about the kickboxer's TKD version of an angle kick vs Coban and Buakaw's in shadowboxing?

 

[SummerStriker]

You can kick with power...miss, and not 180* spin in the Thai method of kicking. There's a simple bio-mechanical reason and something that hasn't been mentioned yet.

What did you notice about the kickboxer's TKD version of an angle kick vs Coban and Buakaw's in shadowboxing?

Edit - You know what's different about how I was taught this sort of kick vs. how they seem to do it? I don't reserve the shoulder. By the time my kick is in the hitting position, my shoulder is in front and covering my chin, pointed straight at the opponent. They don't seem to do that. They twist at the hips and keep their upper body mostly where it was, and only commit the shoulder during impact, if at all.

hmmmmmm.

Edit two - to answer your question, Coban's is more parallel to the floor?

 

[SAAMAG]

Think about the name...Angle kick. The kick travels from the ground at an angle of about 35-45* from vertical. If done in the air, it creates a oval like arch...not a parallel line to the floor. Look at the hips...they are sitting diagonally as well. Watch when Coban and Buakaw shadowbox their kicks...or any thai for that matter. This is why I'm saying that those that do it are doing it "on purpose". It's not the bio-mechanics that force someone to spin...it's the person wanting to do it or because his kick was indeed more parallel with the ground. Both of which aren't what's being practiced in those videos.

Even when done with full power...the kick will naturally stop when the range of motion stops...in this case because of the upper angle it stops just past the point of impact, whereby the kicks descends and the fighter either turns around because he's shadowboxing or he quickly resets because he's fighting and is about to get punched or kicked.

This is also why a very good tactic off the angle kick is to throw a side kick...the bio-mechanics lend themselves perfectly for this and it's simply a good way to counter someone rushing in after a missed thai angle kick. I personally like to kick the guy's thigh, but sometimes I'll go with the gut too.