International Turkey announces invasion of Syria

[luckyshot]

You are falsely assuming that the entire city had upward mobility. You are limited by a subjective interpretation of what "metal" your soul is made up of and the only people who are able to move up are down are arguably the guardians and that's it.

I mean, you're wrong. Just, basic familiarity with the text shows this.

And as you are all akin, though for the most part you will breed after your kinds,222 [415b] it may sometimes happen that a golden father would beget a silver son and that a golden offspring would come from a silver sire and that the rest would in like manner be born of one another. So that the first and chief injunction that the god lays upon the rulers is that of nothing else223 are they to be such careful guardians and so intently observant as of the intermixture of these metals in the souls of their offspring, and if sons are born to them with an infusion of brass or iron [415c] they shall by no means give way to pity in their treatment of them, but shall assign to each the status due to his nature and thrust them out224 among the artisans or the farmers. And again, if from these there is born a son with unexpected gold or silver in his composition they shall honor such and bid them go up higher, some to the office of guardian, some to the assistanceship, alleging that there is an oracle225 that the state shall then be overthrown when the man of iron or brass is its guardian. Do you see any way of getting them to believe this tale?”
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:1999.01.0168:book=3

Or hell, if that's too tough, you could just at least read the SparkNotes on the section you are trying to quote:

The people must be told that though for the most part iron and bronze people will produce iron and bronze children, silver people silver children, and gold people gold children, that is not always the case. It is critical to observe the next generation to discover their class of soul. Those who are born to producers but seem to have the nature of a guardian or an auxiliary will be whisked away and raised with other such children. Similarly, those born to guardians or auxiliaries who seem more fit as producers will be removed to that class of society. Although the just society is rigid in terms of adult mobility between classes, it is not as rigid in terms of heredity

https://www.sparknotes.com/philosophy/republic/section3/page/3/

Which is a far cry from your interpretation of the Republic being a "meritocracy" you are literally the only person who has ever deduced it as such.

I am literally the only one who has ever interpreted The Republic as describing a meritocracy?

So, I guess, Wikipedia doesn't literally say this:

In contrast to historical aristocracies, Plato's resembles a meritocracy or proto-technocracy of sorts. In it, a big government state keeps track of the innate character and natural skills of the citizens' children, directing them to the education that best suits those traits. In this manner, a child with a gold soul born to parents with silver, bronze or iron souls will not be held back by his inferior birth and will be educated to levels above his kin according to his golden qualities. Conversely, from parents with gold and silver souls, a child born with a bronze or an iron soul is educated to only the level earned by his natural aptitudes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plato's_five_regimes

Actually it's not and also telling you didn't understand what you read when you read it.

So, yeah, I'll be happy to accept your apology.

 

[EL CORINTHIAN]

I mean, you're wrong. Just, basic familiarity with the text shows this.

Or hell, you could just at least read the SparkNotes on the section you are trying to quote to prove your point:

It's funny that you don't realize you are reinforcing the idea that your class is predetermined with the exception where certain children are allocated to other classes based on what the state says you are if you happen to have superior metals associated with your soul. If you are deemed to be innately guardian material (Gold) you have the chance to work in a meritocratic structure other wise you are shit out of luck.

Again you are falsely interpreting this to mean the entire city and not a small subset of the population (the political elite) are privy to a meritocracy.

And let's be real here. Sparknotes is the reference point in which you rely.

Oh look just above the quote you mentioned:

The aristocratic state that Plato idealizes is composed of three caste-like parts: the ruling class, made up of the aforementioned philosophers-kings (who are otherwise identified as having souls of gold); the auxiliaries of the ruling caste, made up of soldiers (whose souls are made up of silver), and whose job in the state is to force on the majority the order established by the philosophers; and the majority of the people (souls of either bronze or iron), who, in contrast to the first two classes, are allowed to own property and produce goods for themselves, but are also obliged to sustain with their own activities their rulers' — who are forbidden from owning property in order to preclude that the policies they undertake be tainted by personal interests.

it's like you didn't even bother to read what you cited.


Lets just use the quote you thought helped your case how ever

In this manner, a child with a gold soul born to parents with silver, bronze or iron souls will not be held back by his inferior birth and will be educated to levels above his kin according to his golden qualities. Conversely, from parents with gold and silver souls, a child born with a bronze or an iron soul is educated to only the level earned by his natural aptitudes.

Notice how only Gold has upward mobility while bronze and iron (aka the majority) are stuck right where they are? Maybe next time open your fucking eyes when you play pseudo intellectual.

 

[EL CORINTHIAN]

So, yeah, I'll be happy to accept your apology.

Any ways enough with the derailment. If you want to continue this im happy to take it to the philosophy thread or you can DM me.

 

[BarryDillon]

it’s as if it was written by a twelve year old.

*slow 12 year old

 

[Damien Karras]

Hilarious if true

I read that he paraded around after sending it, distributing copies around to people to boast about how tough he had just been with Erdogan.

This is the leader of the free world ladies and gentlemem

 

[JDragon]

Breaking:

Pence and Erdogan announce truce from Turkish side. YPG fighters get 120 hours (or 5 days) to get lost.



In other words, the United States back Turkey and Erdogan will have achieved his goal.

 

[GhostZ06]

Been a few attacks on the city with Kurdish fighters using tunnels, Turkey is using air strikes to back their Jihadists.



Party buses to kill some Turks lol.

lmao at the epic military party bus.

 

[Hoof Hearted]

obama let our CIA give money, weapons, and send jihadists to al qaeda/al nusra. It’s a fact.

obama let our gulf allies and turkey ship money and weapons and fighters as well. And then looked the other way as they created ISIS.

then he went as far as calling ISIS the JV squad, to justify doing absolutely nothing to stop this murderous horde of savages.

The isrealis were delighted, they thought this groups of mass murdering rapists was gonna end Assad, then go destroy hezbollah for them. And then go destroy the Iraqi Shi’a, and then go attack Iran.

don’t forget what Obama did to Libya either. So much innocent blood on that mans hands. And the media literally blew him the entire time. No fake outrage, only love and adoration while hundreds of thousands were being slaughtered in Both nations.

a few hundred Kurd fighters die, and the media lose their minds.

Bullshit hypocrisy.

I'm not defending Obama and the same failed foreign policy we've seen for decades.

I'm just saying it's not as straightforward as saying Obama or the CIA armed/founded ISIS or AQ. Yes they armed, who they thought were 'moderate', islamic fighters but they never armed ISIS or AQ.

The 'modertate' rebels, who the US armed, defected and joined groups like Al Nusra Front. Plus, the weapons and other military equipment sent to Syria ended up being handed off to extremists, not to the intended recipients.

Obviously it was a fuck up and extremely short sightned (like most of the foreign policy decisions in the middle east) and I can understand why people make these claims, especially after the likes of Operation Cyclone in Afghanistan and the United States role in the 'Dirty War' in South and Central America (i.e history of radicalising islamic fighters and getting their hands dirty with right wing death squads).

 

[Confucamus]

Pompeo and Vice President Pence helped negotiate a Cease Fire. Pretty impressive news.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/pe...in-syria-after-meeting-with-turkish-president

 

[JDragon]

Pompeo and Vice President Pence helped negotiate a Cease Fire. Pretty impressive news.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/pe...in-syria-after-meeting-with-turkish-president

Again, this is the US giving Erdogan what he wants. The terms of the truce are exactly what he set out to achieve: cleansing the 20 mile strip of the Kurds.

 

[Mendacious]

Again, this is the US giving Erdogan what he wants. The terms of the truce are exactly what he set out to achieve: cleansing the 20 mile strip of the Kurds.

At least it will be without the bloodshed. Though this wouldn’t be an issue if we didn’t just abandon them out of nowhere in the first place.

 

[djacobox372]

You explain your support for forever wars, Barry. You know there will always be allies left behind in these things, right? Gotta pull the band aid off sooner or later, otherwise they become, ya know, forever wars. There will always be an excuse to stay.

Japan, South Korea and Germany all still have US troops and things have worked out pretty well.

The only war the US "won" and then pulled out completely was the first Iraq war--and our lack of engagement after the fact is what led to 911.

 

[JDragon]

At least it will be without the bloodshed. Though this wouldn’t be an issue if we didn’t just abandon them out of nowhere in the first place.

Exactly.

 

[Arkain2K]

Once the Turkish/Syrian side make any significant move beyond the current stale mate, I'll start a v2 for those who truly are interested in discussing the events happening on the grounds between the regional players and leave this thread to the full-time Trump-tweet analysts.

That would be much appreciated.

V2 has been created after the Ceasefire.

 

[Trotsky]

Again, this is the US giving Erdogan what he wants. The terms of the truce are exactly what he set out to achieve: cleansing the 20 mile strip of the Kurds.

Rachel Maddow with the rare dunk

 

[method115]

At least it will be without the bloodshed. Though this wouldn’t be an issue if we didn’t just abandon them out of nowhere in the first place.

You could also say it wouldn't have been an issue if we followed US and international law and stayed out of Syria.

 

[BarryDillon]

Again, this is the US giving Erdogan what he wants. The terms of the truce are exactly what he set out to achieve: cleansing the 20 mile strip of the Kurds.

Only the best annexation, believe me.

 

[Stoic1]

Trump has the unique ability to turn a bad situation worse.

Holy shit.

This letter was cringy.

The past 30 days he appears to have lost the military.

 

[Happy Man]

I'm not defending Obama and the same failed foreign policy we've seen for decades.

I'm just saying it's not as straightforward as saying Obama or the CIA armed/founded ISIS or AQ. Yes they armed, who they thought were 'moderate', islamic fighters but they never armed ISIS or AQ.

The 'modertate' rebels, who the US armed, defected and joined groups like Al Nusra Front. Plus, the weapons and other military equipment sent to Syria ended up being handed off to extremists, not to the intended recipients.

Obviously it was a fuck up and extremely short sightned (like most of the foreign policy decisions in the middle east) and I can understand why people make these claims, especially after the likes of Operation Cyclone in Afghanistan and the United States role in the 'Dirty War' in South and Central America (i.e history of radicalising islamic fighters and getting their hands dirty with right wing death squads).

they knew the arms were going to al qaeda. And didn’t care. And the “moderate jihadists” were just as bad. Still murdered and raped and pillaged.

they knew what was happening there, and didn’t care. So they gave weapons that’s went to al qaeda and kept on doing . Month after month, year after year.

first thing trump did when he was sworn into office was out a stop to that evil bullshit.

He enraged the murderous establishment from day one. That’s nothing short of a heroic move

 

[Happy Man]

Trump has the unique ability to turn a bad situation worse.

Holy shit.

This letter was cringy.

The past 30 days he appears to have lost the military.

only a handful of corrupt millionaire corporatist establishment brass. They are all heavily invested in forever war, for whatever reason, and they know they aren’t “defending America”. I mean, they have so intertwined with the military industrial complex it’s criminal.

The troops still love trump, and the patriotic top brass.