TUF 20 OFFICIAL PBP DISCUSSION - EPISODE 2: CALDERWOOD vs. KAGAN (7pm PST, 10pm ET)

It was definitely frustrating to see Kagan throw 5% punches instead of trying to escape.

I do feel like Randa would be a tough opponent for JoJo, if both fought to their best that could be a great fight. Based on what we've seen I'd have to go with Randa.

I wish Calderwood could channel some Anderson Silva for her next fight, hopefully she will be less tentative and let it fly.

Agreed on Rose, I think Dana's best outcome would be for her to win. Clearly the job description this season called for the best fighters they could find who are also as attractive as possible.
 
I didn't think the fight was as bad as some people said. Sure maybe JoJo didn't exactly blow her out of the water, but I do think she won both rounds.

The weird was was obviously the second round. What struck me as odd was Kagan choosing to use her free hand to throw tiny rabbit punches rather than try to peel JoJo's foot out from the triangle so she could escape. I see why JoJo held her there, if she let go she would give up the pass. But Kagan, rather than concentrating her efforts on escaping, decided to clam smash JoJo. I think once Kagan got caught in that position, it was on her to escape. JoJo tried to Kimura, tried to sweep. That's probably why it didn't matter if Kagan was on top or not.

Yeah, it was pretty much a neutral position in the end.
 
Just saw it, thought it was pretty clear that Jojo edged out both rounds.

Also, wtf nudity!?
 
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Jojo won both rounds. I thought she was losing at the start of round 1 but then she turned it up in the 2nd half and was controlling the octagon and getting the better of the striking.
I thought so too, but after re-watching on my DVR she still landed 2 times the amount of strikes than Kagan in the first 2 minutes. There really wasn't a moment of this fight where JoJo was losing.
 
No she isn't.

Kish and Hill are on the same level as Calderwood when it comes to Muay Thai. We also saw last night that even in her strongest discipline, Jojo is still far from perfect. She's great at kickboxing range and clinch range, but at boxing range she is reluctant to let her hands go and is too easy to hit.

She would shred anyone of these girls in pure Muay Thai. Muay Thai isn't fought at boxing range, which is why she's not as comfortable there.

Kagan hit her with like two good shots in 10mins and they didn't even phase JoJo, yet somehow you've concluded she's too easy to hit. She took the shots and kept pressing forward and making Emily run. Emily was scared and JoJo was tentative, not a great fight to really asses her abilities, especially not so harshly. Watch her fight with Katja (the current 115 invicta champ) if you really want to get a sense of what JoJo is capable of.
 
Why was there any discussion about the decision, when they were like we may get a third round I was like what? Jojo clearly won both rounds and I'm not a Jojo obsessed fan like a lot of people around here.
 
I wonder if Team Pettis feel they have to coddle the ladies more, hence the over coaching. He said he's never trained women before so he might be giving them more attention than they need. I've been over coached before and its a fucking pain in the ass. Sometimes you have to let people make there own mistakes and learn by themselves.
 
She would shred anyone of these girls in pure Muay Thai.

Kish is every bit as accomplished and decorated at Muay Thai as Jojo. Saying Jojo would 'shred' someone of her caliber is pure fanboyism.

Muay Thai isn't fought at boxing range, which is why she's not as comfortable there.

I know. That is why I said she had to work on her skills at that range.

Kagan hit her with like two good shots in 10mins and they didn't even phase JoJo, yet somehow you've concluded she's too easy to hit. She took the shots and kept pressing forward and making Emily run.

It was more like four or five. Basically every time Jojo closed into boxing range on her way into clinch range, Kagan cracked her. As far as her taking the shots and still coming forward, that just means she has a good chin. It doesn't negate the fact that she was easy to hit. Chuck Liddell had a great chin too, but that didn't change the fact that he was always easy to hit, and it wound up costing him later in his career.

Emily was scared and JoJo was tentative, not a great fight to really asses her abilities, especially not so harshly. Watch her fight with Katja (the current 115 invicta champ) if you really want to get a sense of what JoJo is capable of.

I don't think I was harsh at all. I said she was excellent at the ranges you would expect a muay thai fighter to be good at and still needed some work elsewhere. That's realistic, not harsh. And I have seen the Kankaanpaa fight, and Jojo had some of the same problems in that fight (particularly her reluctance to let her hands go).
 
I wonder if Team Pettis feel they have to coddle the ladies more, hence the over coaching. He said he's never trained women before so he might be giving them more attention than they need.

Nope.

That's just Duke's coaching style. He emphasizes perfect technique and doesn't want people drilling/sparring without it. So if a coach sees you using sloppy technique, they will stop you and fix it before letting you continue. It's the old adage "practice doesn't make perfect ... perfect practice makes perfect". You have to practice perfect if you expect to be perfect when the fists start flying for real.

Thug Rose talked about it on the UG (she trained with Duke before moving to Grudge). She said it was frustrating for her at first but once she got used to it it really helped ingrain perfect technique into her.
 
jojo was able to keep her head in a triangle, take her down twice, get some elbows on side control, and went for a submission which was the kimura...

tell me what kagan did in that round to justify a draw.

She was on top for half the round. Calderwood had her caught in a triangle but you couldn't really call it a submission attempt. It was just holding on.
 
Anyone else annoyed by the fact they said Randa won against Tecia via split decision? It was an unanimous decision.
First they spoiled the result then they can't even announce it correctly. :icon_evil
 
Yeah, it was pretty much a neutral position in the end.

I agree. Also weird that Gil was telling her to get on top rather than coaching her on how to escape. Being on top in that position meant nothing, but had Kagan escaped she would've been in a good position to establish real top control
 
Speaking of Thai boxers fighting from the outside, look at Buakaw when he first went to K1. He had shit punch defense, and his punch offense was pretty basic compared to his kicks. Lots of Thai boxers are like that, either all the way outside or all the way inside with the clinch. Few guys like Pornsaneh really look to do damage with punches
 
I agree. Also weird that Gil was telling her to get on top rather than coaching her on how to escape. Being on top in that position meant nothing, but had Kagan escaped she would've been in a good position to establish real top control

Getting on top is the first step in defending the submission. That was good advice. Problem was, Gil was more concerned with having her 'score points' with weak punches from that position rather than concentrating on breaking Jojo's grip and escaping.
 
Getting on top is the first step in defending the submission. That was good advice. Problem was, Gil was more concerned with having her 'score points' with weak punches from that position rather than concentrating on breaking Jojo's grip and escaping.


I think she should've tried going knee on belly, or reverse KoB if you want to call it that, for leverage.
 
I would have gone shin on jaw, but I'm a dick like that.

Yeah shin on the jaw or neck if she could get in under the chin. It's a fight so it's all good, but I could never go shin on any face during a roll lol. I weigh 235lbs and I feel bad enough going knee on belly on anyone smaller than me
 
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