Trump is our last hope at stopping the debt

Trump cannot save America. We are too far gone. We need to humble ourselves and turn back to God. God is the only one who can save us from the path we are going.
 
Great Angus said:
Do my American friends really believe this foolishness?
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Depends. How dumb are your American friends?

kpt018 said:
LMAO! What are we, the Roman empire? Are we going to start making our conquered foes perform slave labor too?

Also, can the TS explain why the debt is unsustainable? Or can Trump? For a guy who was highly leveraged his whole career and understands the differences between governments, businesses and people as it relates to debt and spending, he probably should know that this is really just people panicking over nothing.
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Mhmm
 
ripskater said:
Trump cannot save America. We are too far gone. We need to humble ourselves and turn back to God. God is the only one who can save us from the path we are going.
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what a master plan. betting on an invisible being. excellent.

GWB said god spoke to him about attacking iraq. wonder why he never mentioned anything about his piss poor handling of the economy?
 
kpt018 said:
It's a little old, but Krugman talks about some of the things people get wrong about debt:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/02/opinion/krugman-nobody-understands-debt.html?_r=0
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I agree with Krugman but I also believe he is a partisan on the matter. I believe that the debt growth has come down considerably since the end of 2010 to today. I also believe the size of the increase has become smaller and smaller every year. The reason why it continues to still be a problem is because of slower economic growth largely caused by problems overseas. We as a country require strong economies to work together in order to bring in more taxable income.

The US needs the rest of the world to be in better shape because less then 2 percent growth is not providing enough jobs and stabilizing the economy.Too many people require government aid in some form or another and that is due to lack of higher paying jobs and weak economic growth.

The point is that President Obama really has no control over this aspect of the economy. He would be the beneficiary if China and the rest of the world started to grow their economies again at their normal levels. I believe that US banks and many foreign banks need to be held accountable to the size of the debt.

Much of the bank bailouts where to shore up the trillions of dollars in borrowing the banks made overseas. Some estimates put the number at over 100 trillion dollars spread all over the world. This is where too big to fail has become the mantra of many in the US and in congress. The reserve system is so large an integrated to all worlds economies it is the place that has dominated all world banking.

Here is a place where the US can shore up 10 to 20 percent of its debt by putting more pressure on banks to repatriate some of these trillions. The US basically on the hook for upwards of several trillion dollars if Europe or China where to suddenly implode. This is the reason why the stock market has been on a roller coaster the last few weeks do to this problem.

As some bankers keep saying we paid back all the loans!! Not really the Fed transferred much of the borrowing the banks did overseas to federal insured accounts. These actions are not recorded on the debt but I don't know why the US is not charging interest on this borrowing instead of making it interest free.
 
PEB said:
I agree with Krugman but I also believe he is a partisan on the matter.
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What does that mean to you? There's nothing in that piece that is remotely partisan.

PEB said:
I believe that the debt growth has come down considerably since the end of 2010 to today. I also believe the size of the increase has become smaller and smaller every year.
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You don't have to say "I believe" there. Those things are uncontroversial, factual statements.

PEB said:
The reason why it continues to still be a problem is because of slower economic growth largely caused by problems overseas. We as a country require strong economies to work together in order to bring in more taxable income.
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Wait, what? It's good if economies are booming around the world, but in constant dollars, federal gov't revenue passed the pre-recession peak in 2013 and then took a big jump for there.

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=200

PEB said:
The US needs the rest of the world to be in better shape because less then 2 percent growth is not providing enough jobs and stabilizing the economy.
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We've been adding 200,000-plus jobs every month for a long time now. And even if job growth were weak, the relation to debt would be that debt is too low.

PEB said:
Too many people require government aid in some form or another and that is due to lack of higher paying jobs and weak economic growth.
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Well, the first part of this sentence is a matter of opinion, but as for the second, it's due to us mostly using markets to distribute income, which inevitably leaves people in certain groups (mostly children, the elderly, and the disabled) without enough income to survive.

... and then it really gets nutty from there.
 
You are still letting them distract you with 'the debt?' We have debt and China has surplus because they are the store and we are the consumer. That dynamic has to somewhat change. If no 'made in America' movement, no real sustained improvement in our economy, only band aids on gunshot wounds. Much of what they have been distracting us with concerning the nonsense politics has literally been a distraction from this issue. We are almost resigned to international economic defeat as you don't even hear that many people complaining about the 60 million wealth creating jobs the super rich shipped off to get a little richer in the short term. Their investments in 'hate the fed' political parties has been their way to make us hate our only tool to stop the suicide of our economy by these short sighted lucked into money idiots that have zero loyalty in their country and sell out to other countries that are viewing it as economic war. We STILL need to force corporations that want to suck money out of America selling their crap to make at least some of the crap here, or of course we will eventually end up broke and in horrid debt.
 
TRUMP! Change we can believe in. YES WE CAN.
 
I have a laugh when people try and compare government to business. They are totally different. Government isn't in business to make a profit. You guys complain about debt then complain about taxes being raised. You can't have one without the other.

Also government can run at a deficit to benefit citizens while a business running at deficit means the end of the business.
 
I say he should be border team leader but a whole country not a good idea. Look how much time he spends battling ladies on his spare time he should be planning for America. If he fights every little battle how can he be victorious for all of America. He likes to counter punch feverishly which would put us in more debt. I say let him handle the immigration process if he succeeds vote him in as president next term. You must first succeed in what you claim you can do if not you should not lead such a massive nation.
 
I will laugh my ass of if we build a wall. Gofers will be watching illegal immigrants on tips for digging better holes!
 
IngaVovchanchyn said:
Then what does it mean for a government to own all of its citizens' assets? Because you said that.c
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I am saying when comparing nations you can make that argument. Because the citizens of the nations are its 'serfs' the government is an 'entity' that in a way is the true owner of all our property. Hence that is why we pay taxes and will go to prison and have our assets seized if we threaten to rebel/not pay taxes.



IngaVovchanchyn said:
And now you say it again. Let's be clear: the government doesn't own my land and it doesn't own me.
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I like how you IGNORED my statement regarding implict debt, intragovernmental debt and the role of public/federal debts. All I wanted was an explanation

By you not answering I think it reveals the gaps that you have. Plus the fact you ignored the bit by Rogoff also shows you are more interested in bashing people whom you disagree with (like myself). If you were such an 'economic wiz' like you try to falsely portray than maybe you'd have answered something as simple as explaining to me why I am wrong and what and how Implicit debt and Intragovernmental debt factor into the 'impending doomsday debt' scenario.

IngaVovchanchyn said:
And now again you conflate the aggregate wealth of American citizens with the wealth of the American government. They simply aren't the same thing.
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This is an OLD and outdated figure. But my point is that the citizens wealth can (if need be) act as collateral. Another point I was making is that the government isn't or shouldn't be accountable for the debt that Americans/American businesses owe to one another. Therefore, my point is that from one perspective it can be argued that the 'government' as an entity is the true owner of all that we possess and this is the price we pay for safety/security/services and for having a functioning government. For some reason however, you seem REALLY hung up on the word/use of the word 'government'.

total-assets-pie-chart-600x377.jpg


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_position_of_the_United_States
 
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If we owe most of our debt to ourselves, like some of you say, then is the credit card debt or small B2B pending invoices included in this? I dont see what we can owe ourselves. And if we do, are the creditors evenly spread out across the whole demographic, or is most of the money owed to a select group of individuals.

Or are we talking about some kind of welfare like Social security that the government mandates everyone must pay into, so we can receive ourselves later on in the future?
 
Dogstarman said:
I have a laugh when people try and compare government to business. They are totally different. Government isn't in business to make a profit. You guys complain about debt then complain about taxes being raised. You can't have one without the other.

Also government can run at a deficit to benefit citizens while a business running at deficit means the end of the business.
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I would laugh at people who cannot see the parallels and completely ignore the direct correlations between business and government. Also your last statement caused a real LOL. As if businesses cannot run for extended periods in the red, completely subsidized, continuing to borrow hoping to get back into the black.
 
Stoic1 said:
Obama proved it can be done.
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Plus all you really need is money to pull off anything Trump is harping. Where will we get that money? Where did we get the TARP and all the other money we gave to bankers over the previous years? I am not saying Trumps ideas are good, but if we need the money to pay for it, we can get it.
 
Trump thinks your current minimum wage is too high right now...that it's a global market and you should all be competing globally...


Have fun with that.
 
I dont think our govt has a rich daddy that can solve everything like Trump did.
 
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