Trump blames California wildfires on environmental protection laws.

[Kindacrazy]

I honesty don't know. If I did, I would have provided a source to debunk it.

I'm only aware of government mandated conservation efforts during dry spells so that they don't exhaust the aquifers and reservoirs. California is more concerned with saving fresh water than throwing it away.

Does he not think that rivers and streams should be allowed to flow into the ocean? Is that a thing that right wingers against now?

Ya, maybe. I have no idea what hes talking about off the top of my head.

 

[TribalDrumz]

what a freaking fool. Ya so lets just keep sweeping up natural tree rubbage to the highest degree. That's really going to stop fires?

 

[GhostZ06]

No trees, no forest fires



No forest fires, no carbon dioxide fueling global warming

Checkmate Liberals! #MAGA

Listen hereyou fuck, you dont get it! if we had clean coal none of this would happen!

 

[jk7707]

So does anyone actually know what hes referring to? Usually when he says something like this, right or wrong, hes referring to some actual program or behavior.

I'm assuming it's some half assed reference to the fact that there are environmental regulations for how much water (in terms of cubic feet per second) has to flow through certain rivers by the time they enter the ocean. Which is incredibly important to anyone who is employed as a fisherman or anything related to that.

Confirming that Trump is a fucking idiot.

 

[Bald1]

I thought his point would be about not allowing controlled burns or repressing the natural cycle of burn/regen of the underbrush. Should have known better.

 

[xcvbn]

So does anyone actually know what hes referring to? Usually when he says something like this, right or wrong, hes referring to some actual program or behavior.

Yeah I know exactly what he's referring to: policies in place that protect the Sacramento-San Joaquin River Delta
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacramento–San_Joaquin_River_Delta)

It's one of if not the most diverse ecosystem in North America and what Trump fails to understand is the ramifications if we stopped "diverting water to the Pacific Ocean". First and foremost, we can't divert water to a place it has been going naturally for 10,000 years. The Delta is a river system that spans hundreds of miles of waterways and is home to many different species of plants, animals, fish, and birds. It acts as a natural air purifier and air conditioner, passively cooling cities nearby and providing the famous "Delta Breeze" as far inland as Modesto and Lodi. As well as provides endless recreation and local activity- the Delta was a huge part of my upbringing and the impending destruction of it to please foreign businesses and politicians who live hundreds of miles away has me pissed the fuck off.

Jerry Brown, a cohort of sleazy politicians(both Dem and Repub), and the scummiest, greediest "investors" on Earth are hellbent on diverting all water out of the Delta. The plan is to install massive 33' in diameter tunnels that pump all of the snowmelt from the American River straight down south to water almond orchards and millions of lawns in the desert. Foreign and SoCal investment has been buying up dozens of islands in the Delta in order to drill for oil once the Delta has completely dried up.

If you want an idea of what their plan will result in Google 'Owens Lake/Valley'. Now consider that millions of people live within 1hr of the Delta while nobody lived within 3 hours of Owens Lake.

 

[xcvbn]

By the way, it's not clear whether or not Trump is actually suggesting we turn the Delta into a dust bowl in order to water remote forestland. Because it wouldn't get much dumber than that. And as for clearing trees- sure that's a great idea but prepare to pay(out the ass, fed money status) to clear miles worth of trees to prevent devastating fires like the one in Redding. When 100 foot tall trees fully catch on fire with enough wind they can send embers much further than you'd think.

 

[ocean size]

Does he not think that rivers and streams should be allowed to flow into the ocean? Is that a thing that right wingers against now?

Bingo, they think more water should be allocated for farming and ranching and shit and less to conservation and endangered species.

 

[ocean size]

Yeah, I've never heard of environmentalists protesting controlled burns and counter fires. They're strategies to prevent even more damage.


...and the lack of funding is why they've literally been using slave prison labor to fight the fires for the last few years.

It would be kind of cool to get to go fight wildfires and shit instead of sit in jail. I have plenty of buddies when I was younger that did it willingly

 

[tonni]

He thinks they're......dumping fresh water into the Pacific?


JFC, he's so fucking stupid.

Must be referring to rivers running to the sea. "dumping fresh water". Or does that make too much sense?

 

[Madmick]

@VivaRevolution
Pay attention to this post. This is how one properly "sees through" media narratives to the truth. It doesn't require fabulous, unfounded conspiracy theories. It requires reading, logic, and concrete figures. Mostly, it's just work, not screenwriting.

I'm assuming it's some half assed reference to the fact that there are environmental regulations for how much water (in terms of cubic feet per second) has to flow through certain rivers by the time they enter the ocean. Which is incredibly important to anyone who is employed as a fisherman or anything related to that.

Confirming that Trump is a fucking idiot.

Which depends on how much rain we get. That's why these same lakes-- Shasta and Whiskeytown-- were nearly exhausted just several years ago. Lowest they'd been in decades. Then we got the heavy rains which caused the floods that tore the Oroville Dam apart (further to the south).

If rain and snow-pack are low for a year, we slowly drain our lakes to keep up that river flow so the salmon and trout don't die (generally speaking, because sometimes we retain more water as in the Shasta Dam to keep it cold enough for the salmon to survive, but that's only an issue because the Dam is there in the first place). If rain and snow-pack are high, we end up releasing water intermittently as a precaution to avoid less controlled flooding that could wipe out towns and infrastructure because an unexpected torrent of precipitation pushes the water level over the dam, and suddenly you're not in control anymore. This is partly what contributed to them needing to release so much water so quickly that exacerbated the "unknown" structural flaw in the Oroville Dam, and caused it to blow out.

Meanwhile, back when it was parched, we already stopped damming the river in several places, and while they pitched it as a way to save the fish populations, it actually has more to do with necessary diversions (during these times of drought) to our agriculture locally, and further southwest towards central California in the West Sac valley. This is why they selected dams in sparsely populated areas like Red Bluff to shut down instead of, you know, the Shasta Dam itself. This less populated stretch of the river doesn't get to hold all that extra water during crucial summer months (which is used for river recreation). In the meantime, Shasta Lake draws a lot more recreation dollars, and crowns a county to the north with much more political and economic pull.

See how this played out:
Red Bluff sues Canal Authority over plan for agricultural pumps (2008)

On Tuesday, the council directed City Attorney Richard Crabtree to file a lawsuit in federal court challenging the adequacy of the Bureau or Reclamation’s Environmental Impact Statement and the Tehama-Colusa Canal Authority’s Environmental Impact Report, according to a press release issued by the city late Thursday.

Both environmental reviews are required as part of the process for the Canal Authority’s Fish Passage Improvement Project, which would install a series of pumps along the Sacramento River to divert water for agricultural use.

That would replace the current system, in which gates are lowered into the river creating a seasonal lake that feeds the irrigation canal.

The city and the canal authority had in some respects shared similar interests until recently regarding an Endangered Species Act suit filed in the U.S. District Court regarding three species of salmon.

Both sides had hoped a federal judge would allow operations of the Red Bluff Diversion Dam to continue unchanged.

This last part is a lie. Only the city wanted dam operations to continue as they were before. I guarantee you the TCCA was part of the effort to undermine this, and to sway the below judge to the other ruling. They wanted their pumps. Read on.

But last month, Judge Oliver Wanger ruled the dam’s operations were jeopardizing the salmon, leaving a dim future for the dam’s current operations and the existence of Lake Red Bluff...

The canal authority has relied on the dam to supply water for a multimillion-dollar agricultural community and the city benefited from the recreational lake created by the dam....

The project [to put in the new pumps] was given the final go-ahead in July and is estimated to be completed in three years. Once in place, the pump project would leave only the city with an interest in seeing the dam s operation continue unchanged.

The city’s lawsuit challenges the adequacy of the review regarding failure to analyze the impacts from the loss of Lake Red Bluff on the Sacramento River and fisheries, and challenges the public review process for both reports drafts.

The city will ask the court to direct the Bureau of Reclamation and the canal authority to adequately analyze those impacts and adopt sufficient mitigation measures for those impacts.

Such mitigation measures could include a financial obligation, compensating the city for its financial losses. The city has estimated it will lose $4 million annually if the lake is drained for good.

The Canal Authority estimates its management of irrigation leads to a $250 million direct annual economic benefit and $1 billion overall benefit to the area.

Those two figures juxtaposed above sort out everything that is confusing about the mess. Read on.
http://www.sacriver.org/aboutwaters...-bluff-diversion-dam-fish-passage-improvement

Sacramento Valley Region
Red Bluff Diversion Dam Fish Passage Improvement

• Location: Sacramento River at Red Bluff
• Project Sponsor: Reclamation, TCCA
• Time Frame: 2010–2012
• Cost: $220 million (American Recovery and Reinvestment Act, Reclamation, TCCA)
• Project Objectives:
  • Improve reliability to safely pass anadromous fish and other species of concern
  • Improve reliability and reduce cost of water diversion to TCCA district users

This is all that anyone every talked about in the press. This is the angle they pushed. This is how you get rural Californians to go along with something against their interests without any political resistance; without glancing just a bit upriver, or asking questions.

This is the real reason they "reclaimed" that temporary seasonal water diversion. The drought is over, but "reclamation" isn't going away. They don't want to be at the mercy of seasonal underflow, and times of drought. Ag wants to pull that liquid gold out of the river every year regardless of how much water nature is giving back. They wanted their pumps.

Yeah, the Memorial Day boat races never came back to Red Bluff. No ribbons were cut. The impact on local summer recreation was catastrophic. They're never lowering that dam again. Oh well. Small town, and $4m ain't shit. That's how the cookie crumbles. The problem is...the fish weren't doing any better toward the tail end of that drought over half a decade later in 2015.

Why would they? The Red Bluff Diversion Dam displaces a tiny amount of water compared to the Shasta Dam, and only seasonally. Tangentially, neither of these dams is part of the Feather River tributary which accounts for over 3/4 of our commercial ocean salmon industry, and roughly 2/3 of our recreational industry. That is the true spawning ground. Furthermore, those pumps they installed so the fish would no longer have to pass through the arduous locks of the dam turned out to be even more lethal, and didn't contribute anything to helping the Salmon.

Measures to Boost Salmon Are Working, but Some Fear They Could Backfire

The successful fishing caught fishers by surprise, especially after the drought conditions and sloppy management of reservoir outflows killed millions of fertilized salmon eggs in 2014 and 2015. There was every reason to expect a generational gap in the adult salmon population.

Guess what those "reservoir outflows" refer to?

Fish Without a River

While enhanced efforts to produce salmon in hatcheries are proving successful, Smith warns that they don’t solve the underlying issues that have made the Sacramento River – once an astoundingly productive Chinook salmon river – such a hostile environment for small fish.

Frequent water shortages, driven by human demand, have compromised upstream spawning habitat, while in the middle reaches of the Sacramento River system, farmers have converted critical floodplain habitat, where fish find food and refuge, into orchards and fields. In the southern Delta, powerful pumps that send large volumes of water to farms and cities have contributed to the decline of numerous native fish species, according to scientists. The pumps sometimes reverse river flows so that young salmon trying to reach the sea end up lost in remote backwaters instead, where they are often eaten by predators. In fact, research has shown that few naturally born salmon escape the river system most years.

“Barging is just a band-aid,” Smith says. “The river still has to flow in the right direction.”

He says “a fine line” separates solutions to the problems plaguing the state’s salmon fishery and the forces – mainly related to human water use – that threaten it.

“It’s a double-edged sword,” he says. “If you promote the barging as the way to have a productive fishery, the water agencies might feel they can take more water. We have to keep in mind that the barging doesn’t make a healthy river again.”

...and...
Salmon Still Under Threat Due to Mechanical Issues at Shasta Dam
A temperature control device at Shasta Dam is designed to ensure cold water is released downstream for fish, but the device doesn’t appear to work properly when lake levels are low.

Environmentalists have argued that, even in 2014 and 2015, the federal agency could have avoided the huge mortality events experienced by the winter-run Chinook – even in spite of the leaking TCD.

“We know when these fish come back, we know where they spawn, we know how much cold water they will need to spawn, and we know it gets hot in the Central Valley,” says Jon Rosenfield, a senior scientist with the Bay Institute. “The bureau has a big reservoir to store this water,” he said, but instead the agency released too much water to its customers early in the year and failed to retain enough cold water in storage.

He believes there simply isn’t a will within the agency to protect fish. Rosenfield and other environmental advocates say the agency’s top priority is delivering water to farmers even though the Central Valley Project Improvement Act and other laws make very clear that fish and ecosystem protection must be at least as high on the Bureau’s priority list.

Yep, and if you read about this, they have known about it since 2004. But Shasta needs that lake for recreation and tourism in the summer, and those downstream farmers need the bureau to bleed them water (even in winter)-- salmon be damned.

If you talk to old timers around here who lived before the Shasta Dam was installed they speak of walking across the shallows of the Sacramento River in Red Bluff during those summer months, prior to any of this damming, and literally having to pick their steps because the salmon were so thick they could barely find a footing. Dams aren't about fish, they're about food and floods. So what is really happening is that piece by piece the claims to California's fresh water is being staked before we ultimately reach a cultural event horizon where there isn't enough to go around, and the actual fighting arrives alongside that scarcity. They are slicing up California water like the Godfather sliced up Cuba as a cake. Red Bluff was one of the first, and the poorest, to be cut out.

So I guess my grand point to all this, and what I really want to say is....what in the blue fuck does any of this have to do with wildfires, Mr. President?

 

[xcvbn]

@VivaRevolution
Pay attention to this post. This is how one properly "sees through" media narratives to the truth. It doesn't require fabulous, unfounded conspiracy theories. It requires reading, logic, and concrete figures. Mostly, it's just work, not screenwriting.

Which depends on how much rain we get. That's why these same lakes-- Shasta and Whiskeytown-- were nearly exhausted just several years ago. Lowest they'd been in decades. Then we got the heavy rains which caused the floods that tore the Oroville Dam apart (further to the south).

If rain and snow-pack are low for a year, we slowly drain our lakes to keep up that river flow so the salmon and trout don't die (generally speaking, because sometimes we retain more water as in the Shasta Dam to keep it cold enough for the salmon to survive, but that's only an issue because the Dam is there in the first place). If rain and snow-pack are high, we end up releasing water intermittently as a precaution to avoid less controlled flooding that could wipe out towns and infrastructure because an unexpected torrent of precipitation pushes the water level over the dam, and suddenly you're not in control anymore. This is partly what contributed to them needing to release so much water so quickly that exacerbated the "unknown" structural flaw in the Oroville Dam, and caused it to blow out.

Meanwhile, back when it was parched, we already stopped damming the river in several places, and while they pitched it as a way to save the fish populations, it actually has more to do with necessary diversions (during these times of drought) to our agriculture locally, and further southwest towards central California in the West Sac valley. This is why they selected dams in sparsely populated areas like Red Bluff to shut down instead of, you know, the Shasta Dam itself. This less populated stretch of the river doesn't get to hold all that extra water during crucial summer months (which is used for river recreation). In the meantime, Shasta Lake draws a lot more recreation dollars, and crowns a county to the north with much more political and economic pull.

See how this played out:
Red Bluff sues Canal Authority over plan for agricultural pumps (2008)

This last part is a lie. Only the city wanted dam operations to continue as they were before. I guarantee you the TCCA was part of the effort to undermine this, and to sway the below judge to the other ruling. They wanted their pumps. Read on.

Those two figures juxtaposed above sort out everything that is confusing about the mess. Read on.
http://www.sacriver.org/aboutwaters...-bluff-diversion-dam-fish-passage-improvement

This is all that anyone every talked about in the press. This is the angle they pushed. This is how you get rural Californians to go along with something against their interests without any political resistance; without glancing just a bit upriver, or asking questions.

This is the real reason they "reclaimed" that temporary seasonal water diversion. The drought is over, but "reclamation" isn't going away. They don't want to be at the mercy of seasonal underflow, and times of drought. Ag wants to pull that liquid gold out of the river every year regardless of how much water nature is giving back. They wanted their pumps.

Yeah, the Memorial Day boat races never came back to Red Bluff. No ribbons were cut. The impact on local summer recreation was catastrophic. They're never lowering that dam again. Oh well. Small town, and $4m ain't shit. That's how the cookie crumbles. The problem is...the fish weren't doing any better toward the tail end of that drought over half a decade later in 2015.

Why would they? The Red Bluff Diversion Dam displaces a tiny amount of water compared to the Shasta Dam, and only seasonally. Tangentially, neither of these dams is part of the Feather River tributary which accounts for over 3/4 of our commercial ocean salmon industry, and roughly 2/3 of our recreational industry. That is the true spawning ground. Furthermore, those pumps they installed so the fish would no longer have to pass through the arduous locks of the dam turned out to be even more lethal, and didn't contribute anything to helping the Salmon.

Measures to Boost Salmon Are Working, but Some Fear They Could Backfire

Guess what those "reservoir outflows" refer to?

...and...
Salmon Still Under Threat Due to Mechanical Issues at Shasta Dam
A temperature control device at Shasta Dam is designed to ensure cold water is released downstream for fish, but the device doesn’t appear to work properly when lake levels are low.

Yep, and if you read about this, they have known about it since 2004. But Shasta needs that lake for recreation and tourism in the summer, and those downstream farmers need the bureau to bleed them water (even in winter)-- salmon be damned.

If you talk to old timers around here who lived before the Shasta Dam was installed they speak of walking across the shallows of the Sacramento River in Red Bluff during those summer months, prior to any of this damming, and literally having to pick their steps because the salmon were so thick they could barely find a footing. Dams aren't about fish, they're about food and floods. So what is really happening is that piece by piece the claims to California's fresh water is being staked before we ultimately reach a cultural event horizon where there isn't enough to go around, and the actual fighting arrives alongside that scarcity. They are slicing up California water like the Godfather sliced up Cuba as a cake. Red Bluff was one of the first, and the poorest, to be cut out.

So I guess my grand point to all this, and what I really want to say is....what in the blue fuck does any of this have to do with wildfires, Mr. President?

It's just fucking shameful. Worst of all the party with the most power in CA steam rolls the propaganda while the other party couldn't care less. Trump is completely out of his fucking element on this one but CA Dems don't mind- he's speaking their language.

Sacramento still hasn't explained how they intend to keep the native salmon(and sturgeon) from going extinct when they divert the entire American River past the Delta. Or what the plan is for when salt water encroaches on land suitable for agriculture. Or what the next solution is gonna be when SoCal still doesn't have enough fresh water.

If the DWR starts construction on the tunnels I think it will mark the start of the largest water war in modern history. At least it should. And I will be there to do whatever I can to stop that project from being completed.

 

[VivaRevolution]

@VivaRevolution
Pay attention to this post. This is how one properly "sees through" media narratives to the truth. It doesn't require fabulous, unfounded conspiracy theories. It requires reading, logic, and concrete figures. Mostly, it's just work, not screenwriting.

Which depends on how much rain we get. That's why these same lakes-- Shasta and Whiskeytown-- were nearly exhausted just several years ago. Lowest they'd been in decades. Then we got the heavy rains which caused the floods that tore the Oroville Dam apart (further to the south).

If rain and snow-pack are low for a year, we slowly drain our lakes to keep up that river flow so the salmon and trout don't die (generally speaking, because sometimes we retain more water as in the Shasta Dam to keep it cold enough for the salmon to survive, but that's only an issue because the Dam is there in the first place). If rain and snow-pack are high, we end up releasing water intermittently as a precaution to avoid less controlled flooding that could wipe out towns and infrastructure because an unexpected torrent of precipitation pushes the water level over the dam, and suddenly you're not in control anymore. This is partly what contributed to them needing to release so much water so quickly that exacerbated the "unknown" structural flaw in the Oroville Dam, and caused it to blow out.

Meanwhile, back when it was parched, we already stopped damming the river in several places, and while they pitched it as a way to save the fish populations, it actually has more to do with necessary diversions (during these times of drought) to our agriculture locally, and further southwest towards central California in the West Sac valley. This is why they selected dams in sparsely populated areas like Red Bluff to shut down instead of, you know, the Shasta Dam itself. This less populated stretch of the river doesn't get to hold all that extra water during crucial summer months (which is used for river recreation). In the meantime, Shasta Lake draws a lot more recreation dollars, and crowns a county to the north with much more political and economic pull.

See how this played out:
Red Bluff sues Canal Authority over plan for agricultural pumps (2008)

This last part is a lie. Only the city wanted dam operations to continue as they were before. I guarantee you the TCCA was part of the effort to undermine this, and to sway the below judge to the other ruling. They wanted their pumps. Read on.

Those two figures juxtaposed above sort out everything that is confusing about the mess. Read on.
http://www.sacriver.org/aboutwaters...-bluff-diversion-dam-fish-passage-improvement

This is all that anyone every talked about in the press. This is the angle they pushed. This is how you get rural Californians to go along with something against their interests without any political resistance; without glancing just a bit upriver, or asking questions.

This is the real reason they "reclaimed" that temporary seasonal water diversion. The drought is over, but "reclamation" isn't going away. They don't want to be at the mercy of seasonal underflow, and times of drought. Ag wants to pull that liquid gold out of the river every year regardless of how much water nature is giving back. They wanted their pumps.

Yeah, the Memorial Day boat races never came back to Red Bluff. No ribbons were cut. The impact on local summer recreation was catastrophic. They're never lowering that dam again. Oh well. Small town, and $4m ain't shit. That's how the cookie crumbles. The problem is...the fish weren't doing any better toward the tail end of that drought over half a decade later in 2015.

Why would they? The Red Bluff Diversion Dam displaces a tiny amount of water compared to the Shasta Dam, and only seasonally. Tangentially, neither of these dams is part of the Feather River tributary which accounts for over 3/4 of our commercial ocean salmon industry, and roughly 2/3 of our recreational industry. That is the true spawning ground. Furthermore, those pumps they installed so the fish would no longer have to pass through the arduous locks of the dam turned out to be even more lethal, and didn't contribute anything to helping the Salmon.

Measures to Boost Salmon Are Working, but Some Fear They Could Backfire

Guess what those "reservoir outflows" refer to?

...and...
Salmon Still Under Threat Due to Mechanical Issues at Shasta Dam
A temperature control device at Shasta Dam is designed to ensure cold water is released downstream for fish, but the device doesn’t appear to work properly when lake levels are low.

Yep, and if you read about this, they have known about it since 2004. But Shasta needs that lake for recreation and tourism in the summer, and those downstream farmers need the bureau to bleed them water (even in winter)-- salmon be damned.

If you talk to old timers around here who lived before the Shasta Dam was installed they speak of walking across the shallows of the Sacramento River in Red Bluff during those summer months, prior to any of this damming, and literally having to pick their steps because the salmon were so thick they could barely find a footing. Dams aren't about fish, they're about food and floods. So what is really happening is that piece by piece the claims to California's fresh water is being staked before we ultimately reach a cultural event horizon where there isn't enough to go around, and the actual fighting arrives alongside that scarcity. They are slicing up California water like the Godfather sliced up Cuba as a cake. Red Bluff was one of the first, and the poorest, to be cut out.

So I guess my grand point to all this, and what I really want to say is....what in the blue fuck does any of this have to do with wildfires, Mr. President?

 

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

Donald Trump, forestry and environmental sciences expert

 

[curryjunkie]

"stable genius"

 

[Madmick]

You attributed the sarin gas attacks on Douma, Khan Sheikhoun, and Ghouta to the wrong side for the same reason.

 

[snakedafunky]

I am with Trump on environmental issues.
I mean the guy brought back clean coal he obviously knows what he is talking about.

 

[cincymma79]

I honesty don't know. If I did, I would have provided a source to debunk it.

I'm only aware of government mandated conservation efforts during dry spells so that they don't exhaust the aquifers and reservoirs. California is more concerned with saving fresh water than throwing it away.

Does he not think that rivers and streams should be allowed to flow into the ocean? Is that a thing that right wingers against now?

Environmental groups have blocked clearing old growth which catches for more easily several times. If he’s referring to that then it’s a real thing.

 

[Makani]

So I guess my grand point to all this, and what I really want to say is....what in the blue fuck does any of this have to do with wildfires, Mr. President?

Good post, I now know more about California's water struggle than I ever thought I would. I liked revolving everything around the salmon issue, I'm sure a lot of places are playing on environmental fears to do unenvironmental things.

 

[ultramanhyata]

He thinks they're......dumping fresh water into the Pacific?

How would our oceans stay full if municipalities stopped piping some of their water supply into them??

Looks like someone wasn't paying attention in science class... Do some research before you criticize in order to avoid embarrassment in the future.