International Trump administration leads the world in confronting China on Uighur ethnic cleansing

[Seano]

Got anything to say about the OP?

No I was responding to another posters off topic remark that you had no issue with.

 

[Islam Imamate]

What do I need to add, is he doing something? Yes. I don’t need to pat him on the back, he gets shit done, that’s what a President does

Ah so nothing to say beyond whining about the left, got it

No I was responding to another posters off topic remark that you had no issue with.

If you notice he didn't start it, he was responding to someone else who was making an off topic post. So nice try but no cigar.

 

[Seano]

Ah so nothing to say beyond whining about the left, got it

If you notice he didn't start it, he was responding to someone else who was making an off topic post. So nice try but no cigar.

I answered his question. Why are we discussing this ,exactly? Who are you supposed to be?

 

[Rational Poster]

Nothing in the US compares to what is being done in Xinjiang.

Funny how you somehow had to force in some jab at the left. Here's a Trump thread by a leftist that is actually praising him, maybe you could let your guard down and offer some constructive posting for once instead shit flinging?

Yeah like I said I am cautiously optimistic.

In America itself... possibly true.

Worldwide? China has a few centuries to catch up the the US in that regard.

 

[JamesRussler]

I changed my mind. The Uihgurs should fight for their independence. They are 45% of the population of Xinjiang, a clear plurality. They have over 50% when you include Kazakhs and other non-Hans. They should claim a nice chunk of land near the Stans, with plenty of fresh water, and plant and flag there. Call it East Turkestan or Uighurstan, something like that. Don’t expect China or the USA to just give it to you. If they want their freedom, they have to seize it. If they won’t fight for it, then it’s not important enough.

 

[DIDM]

Ah so nothing to say beyond whining about the left, got it

If you notice he didn't start it, he was responding to someone else who was making an off topic post. So nice try but no cigar.

Ok, I’ll add more

Holy fuck isn’t Donald J Trump fucking amazing! Who would have thought that his commitment to winning would never cease. He has not only made America great again, he’s making the whole wide world great again. Just wait till after the election when he makes Africa great again, or for once, not sure which

What we have been lacking for ages is a man with balls, who’s not afraid to speak his mind. That’s what America loves

 

[Islam Imamate]

I answered his question. Why are we discussing this ,exactly? Who are you supposed to be?

I was just curious as to your take on the OP but for some reason you got defensive. Also I don't want the thread to get derailed with the same stupid shit flinging but I guess that's too much to ask of the WR or at least of posters like you.

In America itself... possibly true.

Worldwide? China has a few centuries to catch up the the US in that regard.

So I guess China isn't as bad then, sorry folks but nothing to see here just run of of the mill human rights infringements.

 

[Gregolian]

So I guess China isn't as bad then, sorry folks but nothing to see here just run of of the mill human rights infringements.

Feels weird comparing shit from 50-150 years ago to shit that happened yesterday but that's just me.

 

[Seano]

I was just curious as to your take on the OP but for some reason you got defensive. Also I don't want the thread to get derailed with the same stupid shit flinging but I guess that's too much to ask of the WR or at least of posters like you.

Seems like you chose me to call out for posting off topic after a string of off topic posts that didn't begin with me.

 

[Islam Imamate]

I changed my mind. The Uihgurs should fight for their independence. They are 45% of the population of Xinjiang, a clear plurality. They have over 50% when you include Kazakhs and other non-Hans. They should claim a nice chunk of land near the Stans, with plenty of fresh water, and plant and flag there. Call it East Turkestan or Uighurstan, something like that. Don’t expect China or the USA to just give it to you. If they want their freedom, they have to seize it. If they won’t fight for it, then it’s not important enough.

According to that Uighur professor I mentioned before the crackdown most Uighurs had no issue living in China but things have changed since and there is more support for independence.

Te question is should the new state be East Turkestan or Uighurstan? The professor I talked to favors the former because there is historical precedent for it(there have been two East Turkestan Republics) and it would be more inclusive to the other Turkic ethnic groups like the Kazakhs and Uzbeks. I tend to think he's right.

And sure they have to fight for it on their own but in the modern world fighting for independence often involves rallying international support.

Seems like you chose me to call out for posting off topic after a string of off topic posts that didn't begin with me.

The guy you were responding to had already addressed the OP though while you hadn't. So I was curious to see if you had anything to say on it but clearly you don't.

 

[JamesRussler]

Ok, I’ll add more

Holy fuck isn’t Donald J Trump fucking amazing! Who would have thought that his commitment to winning would never cease. He has not only made America great again, he’s making the whole wide world great again. Just wait till after the election when he makes Africa great again, or for once, not sure which

What we have been lacking for ages is a man with balls, who’s not afraid to speak his mind. That’s what America loves

Don’t forget black unemployment!

 

[JamesRussler]

According to that Uighur professor I mentioned before the crackdown most Uighurs had no issue living in China but things have changed since and there is more support for independence.

Te question is should the new state be East Turkestan or Uighurstan? The professor I talked to favors the former because there is historical precedent for it(there have been two East Turkestan Republics) and it would be more inclusive to the other Turkic ethnic groups like the Kazakhs and Uzbeks. I tend to think he's right.

And sure they have to fight for it on their own but in the modern world fighting for independence often involves rallying international support.

The guy you were responding to had already addressed the OP though while you hadn't. So I was curious to see if you had anything to say on it but clearly you don't.

I know this might be controversial, but I’m not necessarily against ethnostates. If the Uihgurs want an ethnostate, they should go for it. Diversity is not usually a strength in these situations. Uzbeks and Kazakhs already have homelands, so they can always go back there. That said, maybe the Uihgurs would have an easier time building support if they focused on being non-Chinese, rather than affirmatively Uighur. Like you said, it would be more inclusive to just call it East Turkestan. But either way, they’re going to have to confront China.

There’s no guarantee of victory. Maybe the international community will step in, maybe not. FWIW, I believe that patience, determination, and strategy can win a war like this more effectively than bullets/bombs alone. Perhaps the Uighurs adopt a long-term strategy of migrating to the specific region they want, and then declare independence when China’s central government is at a low point (e.g., if the economy tanks, or after they become preoccupied with a big war). That’s pretty much how iron curtain countries broke away from Russia. Just think long term, and logistics.

But basically if they don’t fight to separate from China, they have to accept China’s rules. I have the same opinion for other conquered people who enjoy the benefits of citizenship in a powerful first-world nation, but still want their autonomy. They cannot have it both ways. If losing your comfortable existence is worse than losing your cultural identity, you might as well give up and call yourself Chinese / American / Russian / Turkish / Roman / Persian / Spanish / Japanese, etc.

 

[Hollywood Jack]

Its clearly a jab at the left who overreacts to anything that involves Trump.

Yes, but maybe there's a time and place for that type of trolling/empty posting? It's kinda like posting "Rickson by armbar" in the Heavies at this point. It's not funny, it's not clever, it's just annoying.

 

[Islam Imamate]

I know this might be controversial, but I’m not necessarily against ethnostates. If the Uihgurs want an ethnostate, they should go for it. Diversity is not usually a strength in these situations. Uzbeks and Kazakhs already have homelands, so they can always go back there. That said, maybe the Uihgurs would have an easier time building support if they focused on being non-Chinese, rather than affirmatively Uighur. Like you said, it would be more inclusive to just call it East Turkestan. But either way, they’re going to have to confront China.

I agree, sometimes there is a time and place for an ethnostate(Kurdistan is my go to example) but in this case I think it would be more pragmatic to try and build a more inclusive East Turketstan

There’s no guarantee of victory. Maybe the international community will step in, maybe not. FWIW, I believe that patience, determination, and strategy can win a war like this more effectively than bullets/bombs alone. Perhaps the Uighurs adopt a long-term strategy of migrating to the specific region they want, and then declare independence when China’s central government is at a low point (e.g., if the economy tanks, or after they become preoccupied with a big war). That’s pretty much how iron curtain countries broke away from Russia. Just think long term, and logistics.

I think they are trying to play the long game and trying to build international support so that when the opportunity arises they won't be alone. That professor I mentioned said that he doesn't think China as it exists today is sustainable and he expects that it could break up into multiple states or at least actually autonomous regions within the century. So I think in his mind the game is to lay the plans out and wait for that moment.

I do not think fighting back with guns and bombs would benefit that long game, it would make it too easy for China to justify the crackdown on the basis of fighting terrorism. Tbh I am kind of surprised there hasn't been more separatist violence, Muslims are not really known for taking things like this lying down.

But basically if they don’t fight to separate from China, they have to accept China’s rules. I have the same opinion for other conquered people who enjoy the benefits of citizenship in a powerful first-world nation, but still want their autonomy. They cannot have it both ways. If losing your comfortable existence is worse than losing your cultural identity, you might as well give up and call yourself Chinese / American / Russian / Turkish / Roman / Persian / Spanish / Japanese, etc.

The thing is the Uighurs don't even enjoy the benefits of citizenship. Those outside the camps face numerous forms of discrimination and surveillance which is why the idea of independence is gaining traction. But I do get your point though to an extent I disagree. I think allowing culturally distinct regions some level of autonomy while allowing them to exist under the wider umbrella of the state is a good idea at times, a fair middle ground between secession and total assimilation. But I doubt the Chinese would allow that so in this case I think you are right, its either face the extinction of your culture or break away.

 

[Gregolian]

This feels like China's version of Chechnya. Group is ethnically, religiously, and been geographically separate. The Kurds as mentioned and Kashmir as well.

 

[Mr Holmes]

Perhaps, for a child. But when there are real discussions to be had over behavior with real implications, adults leave the sandbox and provide something of substance with their insults.

In short, you Trump guys fancy yourselves lions, yet you look and sound like hyenas to everyone else.

 

[Islam Imamate]

This feels like China's version of Chechnya. Group is ethnically, religiously, and been geographically separate. The Kurds as mentioned and Kashmir as well.

Except the geographic area is much larger, ~4x the size of Germany IIRC.

 

[Gregolian]

Except the geographic area is much larger, ~4x the size of Germany IIRC.

Holy balls.

It kind of amazes me how long China has managed to hold onto this area as well as Tibet.

 

[ElKarlo]

Didn't he manage to get himself a lifetime term in office not too long ago? No wonder he doesn't have any fucks to give.

He basically did. He has time to get his policies done. Instead he's rushing them and stepping on so many toes

 

[Islam Imamate]

Holy balls.

It kind of amazes me how long China has managed to hold onto this area as well as Tibet.

It also borders like 9 different countries.

To be fair its sparsely populated but still.