Trump Administration Considers Penalizing Immigrants for Using Gov. Benefits

[EradiatedHaggis]

You claimed that what immigrants had to go through at Ellis Island was more than today. I simply refuted that. No vitriol, but it's simply a baseless claim.

You really need to go back and read my op you replied to.

My ending may have said "but its racist to do even less to non-whites" pertains to the information I posted, which is the requirement of money to even get in, proving you have skills to get in, proving you will not become a burden to society to get in...this is why the points were underlined, to show that they had requirements they dont have today.

But thanks for playing the everything is black and white game that has kept this issue in a continual downward spiral for so many decades.

 

[oleDirtyBast4rd]

Wow, this seems really fucked up. I'm all for having strong borders, curtailing smuggling of goods and people, deporting illegal immigrants who have committed additional crimes...

But I have also admittedly bristled at much of the rhetoric used by others who supported the same. When I heard people say that this movement against illegal immigrants was a smokescreen for a greater movement against all (including legal) immigrants I was too quick to dismiss it. It simply didn't make sense, yet here we are. I'm afraid that the only justification for this is xenophobia or racism.

I'm really hoping this doesn't come to pass. Am I missing something? Can someone justify this? I understand being selective about who we accept into this country, but I don't think a blanket denial of anyone who might become a "public charge" is the right way to go. That is far too vague, and rife for abuse.



https://www.reginfo.gov/public/do/eAgendaViewRule?pubId=201804&RIN=1615-AA22

Why would you accept immigrants who are instantly gonna be a burden to your system?

We need more people paying welfare, not receiving it

 

[ScottE]

Why would you accept immigrants who are instantly gonna be a burden to your system?

We need more people paying welfare, not receiving it

Yeah people on healthcare subsidies are total welfare moochers and not at all productive members of society.

 

[Rygu]

Im only against illegal immigration is basically Im only against non-white immigration.

Are any white people even trying to immigrate to America?

 

[ScottE]

Are any white people even trying to immigrate to America?

Other then the First Lady's chain migrating parents?

 

[Rygu]

Other then the First Lady's chain migrating parents?

Yeah, other than those few people.

 

[helltoupee]

I have no issues with banning anyone that is not a citizen from getting free tax payer dollars just as I would have no issues with a complete overhaul of obtaining citizenship and making it more streamlined and take a lot less time as long as the process is thorough with few cracks for people to slip in through.

You do understand that immigrants, not just citizens, pays taxes as well, correct?

 

[ScottE]

You do understand that immigrants, not just citizens, pays taxes as well, correct?

Wait, now blow his mind and tell him that about half of illegal immigrants pay taxes for services they won't ever utilize.

 

[DIDM]

Come to America, contribute nothing, and take all the benefits

How is that hard to be against?

 

[EradiatedHaggis]

You do understand that immigrants, not just citizens, pays taxes as well, correct?

Yes, did you bother read all of my posts? My mother was an immigrant and basically was forced to have her first child out of wedlock due to shit immigration laws that kept her OUT of the country...

 

[panamaican]

Yet I really do wonder is if it is a way to make it what we want...

We have been doing the same exact thing for so many years and nothing getting fixed. Maybe what we need is laws like this to FORCE the issue. As is, both Democrats and Republicans are useless in actually fixing the laws while being really good at playing their games which include pitting citizens against each other.

Trump may have an R by his name but he is no Republican and has done nothing BUT shake up the pot that is named "normal politics". Like the man or hate him, he WAS elected by those sick of the system on BOTH sides...this is actually the perfect time to fix the mess of immigration laws and something like this will bring that to the forefront.

How does this force the issue? What issue are you forcing? And what was wrong with the legal immigrant situation that this addresses (because this has no effect on illegals)?

And change for the sake of change is a failing strategy more often than not.

More directly, that someone was elected by people who wanted a change to the system does not automatically elevate that person's choices to "good" or "smart". He may have a chance to do something because people want a change but what he does needs to be evaluated on the merits, not on the vestiges of an emotional response to a campaign from 2 years ago.

 

[Jesus H. Sherdog]

You really need to go back and read my op you replied to.

My ending may have said "but its racist to do even less to non-whites" pertains to the information I posted, which is the requirement of money to even get in, proving you have skills to get in, proving you will not become a burden to society to get in...this is why the points were underlined, to show that they had requirements they dont have today.

But thanks for playing the everything is black and white game that has kept this issue in a continual downward spiral for so many decades.

Care to post any proof of how much money one had to have to enter through Ellis Island? What years this requirement was enforced? That this was ever actually policy?

It seems to be some old wives tale anyways, however it would still pale in comparison to the requirements for education and work in place today, barring a refugee or lottery situation. I know you're not talking about the racial restrictions like the Chinese Exclusion Act back then since you specified how much harder it was for WHITE people, lmao.

I can see the first part of your post was from Wikipedia, but the part about money being required I can't even find anything to support that. Sorry, "about 2% were denied admission to the U.S. and sent back to their countries of origin for reasons such as having a chronic contagious disease, criminal background, or insanity." But I guess that's better than the 100% of Chinese people barred entry solely based on their racial handicap, right?

https://www.wikihow.com/Immigrate-Into-the-United-States-Permanently

https://networklobby.org/historyimmigration/

https://www.quora.com/How-much-mone...g-through-Ellis-Island-19th-Cent-need-to-have

 

[Lead]

Yea, this is pure bullshit and is going to hurt the party if they go down this route. The line has been enforcement and pro-legal immigration. You go down the path of discriminating against citizens who are here legally just because they weren't born here and you will lose a lot of support. It's a pretty disgusting idea.

 

[EradiatedHaggis]

How does this force the issue? What issue are you forcing? And what was wrong with the legal immigrant situation that this addresses (because this has no effect on illegals)?

And change for the sake of change is a failing strategy more often than not.

More directly, that someone was elected by people who wanted a change to the system does not automatically elevate that person's choices to "good" or "smart". He may have a chance to do something because people want a change but what he does needs to be evaluated on the merits, not on the vestiges of an emotional response to a campaign from 2 years ago.

The definition of madness. Based on horseshit. There is no vestiges of the campaign here, illegals are not immigrants, and his campaign was about ILLEGALS.

You may wish to continue the norm, I do not nor will I ever...not even my mother did and she suffered through this mess of an immigration system we have.

 

[EradiatedHaggis]

Care to post any proof of how much money one had to have to enter through Ellis Island? What years this requirement was enforced? That this was ever actually policy?

It seems to be some old wives tale anyways, however it would still pale in comparison to the requirements for education and work in place today, barring a refugee or lottery situation. I know you're not talking about the racial restrictions like the Chinese Exclusion Act back then since you specified how much harder it was for WHITE people, lmao.

I can see the first part of your post was from Wikipedia, but the part about money being required I can't even find anything to support that. Sorry, "about 2% were denied admission to the U.S. and sent back to their countries of origin for reasons such as having a chronic contagious disease, criminal background, or insanity." But I guess that's better than the 100% of Chinese people barred entry solely based on their racial handicap, right?

https://www.wikihow.com/Immigrate-Into-the-United-States-Permanently

https://networklobby.org/historyimmigration/

https://www.quora.com/How-much-mone...g-through-Ellis-Island-19th-Cent-need-to-have

https://www.rferl.org/a/1086062.html

did you really post wikihow and quora?!? I can create pages there...but thank you for showing why I said "yall should read up on" when I brought up Ellis Island...so many people talking about immigration yet know nothing of its history. Same with those using identity politics knowing shit about white history in this country...tell them Italians were lynched often in America from 1880-1910, that it was also celebrated in the media AND they were subjected to Jim Crow laws in the south...and they stare like a deer in headlights then call you a liar because, they know nothing outside their programming that says white people cant be on the receiving end of racism.

 

[panamaican]

The definition of madness. Based on horseshit. There is no vestiges of the campaign here, illegals are not immigrants, and his campaign was about ILLEGALS.

You may wish to continue the norm, I do not nor will I ever...not even my mother did and she suffered through this mess of an immigration system we have.

Yes, his campaign was about illegals. This policy is about legals. Thus my questions about what issues this is supposedly addressing or forcing?

Simply saying "change" does not actually explain what this trying to change or why it needed to be changed.

And nothing against your history but both of my parents are immigrants and we've all had our share of stories where the legal immigration system made things difficult for us. You keep repeating your mom's situation...how would this policy have helped her situation?

 

[EradiatedHaggis]

Yes, his campaign was about illegals. This policy is about legals. Thus my questions about what issues this is supposedly addressing or forcing?

Simply saying "change" does not actually explain what this trying to change or why it needed to be changed.

And nothing against your history but both of my parents are immigrants and we've all had our share of stories where the legal immigration system made things difficult for us. You keep repeating your mom's situation...how would this policy have helped her situation?

Because little gets changed in this messed up country without an extreme taking place...

As for your last question. My mother would have rather had lost everything and been homeless than go on welfare...it used to be a SHAMEFUL thing to do and she was too proud. Even with both my parents working my sisters had nothing but hand-me-downs, my oldest sister wore the old clothes of our aunt who was 5 years older than her.

By the time I came around my oldest sister was close to moving out and another sister along both parents were working so I didnt have that issue. My father was even working 2 jobs most of my childhood. Proud culture, proud people = do what has to be done to make money and take no handouts no matter what. This is NOT however an argument against a social safety-net, I do think it is needed to help people out in WORST possible situations but not for non-citizens...and is a damn good reason to argue and fight for changing current laws that have made the amount of time it takes to become a citizen increase several times during my lifetime.

This is how movements get started, someone does something to cause it...and right now, Democrats are DOING shit, just TALKING a lot...just look at how they hung Dreamers out to dry...TWICE! Then go look at how Conservative pundits like Ben Shaperio have been talking about immigration, drawing a CLEAR line between legals and illegals and even calling for trimming away at the fat of those laws that make things harder to become a citizen. THIS is the time, both sides have support for it.

Or, we could just want more of the same and even cause those that are even posting on message boards doing nothing more than spreading the awareness of how hard it has been for EVERYONE and trying to box them into some corner for a quick gotcha moment...

 

[panamaican]

Because little gets changed in this messed up country without an extreme taking place...

And extremes that don't make sense make things worse not better. Making things worse just to say that you've done something is a poster child for bad decision making. Even if you can't make it better, at least don't make it worse.

As for your last question. My mother would have rather had lost everything and been homeless than go on welfare...it used to be a SHAMEFUL thing to do and she was too proud. Even with both my parents working my sisters had nothing but hand-me-downs, my oldest sister wore the old clothes of our aunt who was 5 years older than her.

By the time I came around my oldest was close to moving out and both parents were working so I didnt have that issue. My father was even working 2 jobs most of my childhood. Proud culture, proud people = do what has to be done to make money and take no handouts no matter what. This is NOT however an argument against a social safety-net, I do think it is needed to help people out in WORST possible situations but not for non-citizens...and is a damn good reason to argue and fight for changing current laws that have made the amount of time it takes to increase several times during my lifetime.

Again...how would this policy have had any effect on her situation? You kept going on about out of wedlock births and such - I couldn't draw a connection between that situation and this policy. I'm asking you flesh it out directly.

This is how movements get started, someone does something to cause it...and right now, Democrats are DOING shit, just TALKING a lot...just look at how they hung Dreamers out to dry...TWICE! Then go look at how Conservative pundits like Ben Shaperio have been talking about immigration, drawing a CLEAR line between legals and illegals and even calling for trimming away at the fat of those laws that make things harder to become a citizen. THIS is the time, both sides have support for it.

Or, we could just want more of the same and even cause those that are even posting on message boards doing nothing more than spreading the awareness of how hard it has been for EVERYONE and trying to box them into some corner for a quick gotcha moment...

I don't know why you typed the above. It literally has nothing to do with the specific policy being discussed in this thread. What "movement" does this policy start?

 

[Jesus H. Sherdog]

https://www.rferl.org/a/1086062.html

did you really post wikihow and quora?!? I can create pages there...but thank you for showing why I said "yall should read up on" when I brought up Ellis Island...so many people talking about immigration yet know nothing of its history. Same with those using identity politics knowing shit about white history in this country...tell them Italians were lynched often in America from 1880-1910, that it was also celebrated in the media AND they were subjected to Jim Crow laws in the south...and they stare like a deer in headlights then call you a liar because, they know nothing outside their programming that says white people cant be on the receiving end of racism.

Thanks. So in 1909 for “a few months” it says “immigrants were required to have railroad tickets to their final destinations and at least the equivalent of 25 dollars.” Never mind that at the same time the Chinese Exclusion Acts were in effect... Apparently you think the cost of immigrating now is less than a railroad ticket and $25. Everything else is vague but the fact remains only 2% were turned away according to your source.

I never said white people cant be on the receiving end of racism. You’re the one who brought up white people and Ellis Island and all of this in the first place. I can see white identity politics is always on the forefront of your mind but it really has nothing to do with this specific issue of immigration in this thread. It will negatively impact all immigrants equally regardless of race.

 

[EradiatedHaggis]

And extremes that don't make sense make things worse not better. Making things worse just to say that you've done something is a poster child for bad decision making. Even if you can't make it better, at least don't make it worse.

Almost all policies are made this way. Obama didnt want health care overhaul without it...and we wound up with far reaching changes due to that one law, it had a ripple effect and for the worse and that was with GOOD intentions.

Again...how would this policy have had any effect on her situation? You kept going on about out of wedlock births and such - I couldn't draw a connection between that situation and this policy. I'm asking you flesh it out directly

I already said it wouldnt have because she would have refused help holy hell you are focusing so narrowly you are missing what is being said and why...you are the one that jumped in with your ass on fire trying to make it sound like I said immigrants have it easier today than 100 years ago which I never did and you just could not let go of it. This is why we are where we are, you required so much more information which was a mistake on my part since I should have realized that if you could not accept the information given in my first post in context, no amount more was going to change anything...you are in full tilt defense mode and are blocking even people on the same side just for deviating slightly on the narrative.

I don't know why you typed the above. It literally has nothing to do with the specific policy being discussed in this thread. What "movement" does this policy start?

Of course you dont, you have been so hyper-focused on crushing the deviance (how dare he point out Ellis Island, its not as bad as blah blah horseshit) that you dont know what is being said, congrats. Remove knee from face, step back, and re-read...you didnt see me challenge your mention your parents having stories of issues did you? Nope. Cause im not hyper-focused and refuting that actually means nothing as the experiences of ALL immigrants matters, including those of 100+ years ago. Its all relevant to today and this topic, just like my reason for agreeing with this change and how such services should only be for citizens...due to everyone before the recent changes having to go without also.