Economy Trudeau upset with Biden over keystone pipeline

[DavidsGhost]

It's a pretty meh issue either way imo

I feel this way too.

 

[Mcountry]

Isn’t it crazy how now that Biden is president we can actually spend time talking about policies rather than argue about some absurd thing he said or did ?

What like signing an executive order to wear masks on fed property and then get pictured not wearing a mask on fed property? Your bias is showing. Which means talking about politics or policy with you would be an inconsistent mess.

 

[Mcountry]

“The Keystone pipeline spilled nearly 400,000 gallons of tar sands oil into a wetland in Walsh County, North Dakota. On Oct. 29, 2019, a nearly 400,000-gallon oil spill was discovered in the Keystone pipeline system in North Dakota. The spill inundated a wetland with heavy crude oil mined from the Alberta tar sands”

I remember being told how this pipeline was so safe and hi tech any leak would be dealt with safely and immediately. Well that was complete bullshit lol. Yeah, let’s pretty much permanently poison communities’ water tables, keep destroying some ecosystems, and keep running an oil sands pipe across the whole county that’s shown to catastrophically fail.

this gets a small handful of folks jobs and profit at a very steep price for the rest of those left to live with the pollution. Shut the shit down.

How many oil tanker spills are in the ocean? Because now you've forced Canada to ship all this oil over seas via ocean line tanker.

Or was the thought process that suddenly people around the globe were gonna all not use oil the moment we stopped the keystone pipeline? Both the US wanting that oil and Canada wanting to sell that oil will remain. They just won't use a pipeline now to transfer it. Maybe they use oil burning trucks to ship it over? Or maybe they sell it over seas? Maybe the US buys more saudi oil again? That would be swell!

So perhaps while not perfect, this method of transportation is more safe and when accidents happen like a spill...it is more easily contained then when it happens in the ocean?

 

[MoparOrNoCar]

I voted for Biden, because duh.

But I think it's a mistake to cancel the Keystone pipeline. They put up a lot of great commitments to green energy, which would have initiated the only real path to renewable energy: having it run parallel with fossil fuels for some time.

However, I'm pretty low-info on this one. What are your takes? Obviously, the Trump crowd is going to ditch a reasonable debate for spamming fake outrage.

I'm interested in legit takes.

It’s yeh bump

Biden shouldnt fuck with Canada

Isn’t it crazy how now that Biden is president we can actually spend time talking about policies rather than argue about some absurd thing he said or did ?

You made a post about something you know little about and threw in a lame duck insult toward conservatives.

No one cared so you had to bump it.

Only one guy responded with a joke about not fucking with Canada.

And here you are patting yourself on the back about how Biden's presidency has freed us from stupid talk so we can get down to intelligent talk about policies.

 

[Arkain2K]

What happened to America First?

Suddenly you guys give a shit about Canadian workers?

Only Irrational Poster would think having a good deal is bad for Americans.

Since they have no other way to export their crude due to BC and Quebec being assholes, Albertans have to sell their oil to our Texas refineries at half-price, crude that is now cheaper than the shipping cost, crude that we can easily turn into gasoline and re-sell back to them and everyone else for profits, and now we're no longer subjected to OPEC's mercy, with our new-found Energy Independence as the world's #1 Energy producer with just North American crude alone.

How is that not a good thing for America?

 

[Rod1]

How is that not a good thing for America?

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/11/20/us/keystone-pipeline-leak-10-times-worse-trnd/index.html

OPEC is a hollow shell at this point, just look at how they failed miserably in 2020.

 

[irish_thug]

We like Trudeau now on Sherdog.

No.

 

[Bald1]

Trudeau is gonna hit Joseph with a 3 piece combo, extra gravy on the poutine

Naah. Gropey racists stick together.

With that out of my system, there's nothing Trudy can do. The reality is that us Canucks are the junior members in this partnership by a long shot. If we want to capitalize on our resources we must plan on doing it free of American dependence. It's not like we're a landlocked nation devoid of global shipping capabilities.

 

[Arkain2K]

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/11/20/us/keystone-pipeline-leak-10-times-worse-trnd/index.html

OPEC is a hollow shell at this point, just look at how they failed miserably in 2020.

- Despite their similar names, Keystone 1 and Keystone XL are two entirely separate pipelines. One is in use for over a decade, the other is still under construction.

- It's a given that all pipeline leaks, some much more than others, yet pipelines are still far better for the environment than the disasters involving tanker trucks, ships, and rail, and we will continue to use pipelines as long as we still rely on combustible engines, as the U.S once again set to import record amount of Canadian crude this year.

- If oil leak is the primary concern for the new XL line currently under constructions, then there should be more safeguards put in place to prevent that problem.

- OPEC is neutered because we no longer depends on their product, and a big part of that is thanks to dirt-cheap Albertan tar sands and Permian shale, and we should keep it that way until the transistion to electric cars.

- Lasty, whether any of the current pipelines (including Keystone 1) continues leaking or not is entirely up to their maintenance and upkeep, the scrapping of the new XL line has zero affect on that outcome. With the XL line scrapped, it just means we'll continue relying on the older and leakier pipes that are going through expansions themselves, that's all.

---

Even without Keystone XL, U.S. set for record Canadian oil imports
Nia Williams and Devika Krishna Kumar | Jan 21, 2021​

Jan 22 (Reuters) - The Keystone XL pipeline project may be dead, but the United States is still poised to pull in record imports of Canadian oil in coming years through other pipelines that are in the midst of expanding.

U.S. President Joe Biden canceled Keystone XL's permit on his first day in office Wednesday, dealing a death blow to a long-gestating project that would have carried 830,000 barrels per day of heavy oil sands crude from Alberta to Nebraska.

Environmental activists and indigenous communities hailed the move, but traders and analysts said U.S.-Canada pipelines will have more than enough capacity to handle increasing volumes of crude out of Canada, the primary foreign supplier of oil to the United States.

Currently, Canada exports about 3.8 million bpd to the United States, according to U.S. Energy Department data. Analysts expect that to rise to between 4.2 million and 4.4 million bpd over the next few years. Pipeline expansions currently in progress will add more than 950,000 bpd of export capacity for Canadian producers before 2025, according to Rystad Energy.

Biden's administration has set a goal of moving towards decarbonization and reducing the country's reliance on oil and gas and cutting harmful air pollutants. Most of the nation's energy still comes from fossil fuels.

"Whatever limited benefit that Keystone was projected to provide now has to be obviously reconsidered with the economy of today," said Gina McCarthy, Biden's leading domestic climate policy coordinator at the White House.

Even without Keystone, however, the United States now relies on Canada for more than half of its imported oil. Several of the lines carrying that crude are in the midst of expansions.

Enbridge Inc's Line 3 replacement project is in the process of doubling its capacity, which will allow it to deliver about 760,000 bpd of crude from Alberta to Superior, Wisconsin, by the end of this year.

Canada's government is also expanding the state-owned Trans Mountain line by 590,000 bpd to 890,000 bpd. That line terminates at the Port of Vancouver, where it should be able to deliver barrels via tankers to the United States.

Meanwhile, TC Energy received U.S. approval last year to expand its existing Keystone 590,000-bpd line - located far from the proposed Keystone XL - which would add an additional 170,000 bpd into the U.S. Midwest and Gulf Coast.

Oil production in western Canada will rise in 2021 to a new record of 4.45 million bpd, RBN Energy estimates, up from 3.9 million bpd in 2020, most of which will be exported to the United States.

Canada is the world's fourth-biggest crude producer, but has been grappling for years with congestion on pipelines. That caused a glut of oil in storage tanks in Alberta, driving prices down, and spurring the province to impose production curtailments to drain record inventories.

Those curtailments were lifted in November, and production has been rising ever since. Even as production is rising again, pipeline companies have boosted efficiency on existing pipelines through the use of drag-reducing agents.

https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idINL4N2JW3T5

 

[ElKarlo]

Yep, no word on reducing shipments, even after old Joe called it "dirty Tar sands." Now 830,000 barrels a day of that dirty Tar oil is going to be transported by older and less efficient means.

Joey just tossed some soy to his base on this one

Yes. It’s not doing anything about usage nor production. Also it’s definitely going to cause direct deaths due to accidents.

 

[MRT]

Biden revoking the pipeline is going to put 12,000 people out of work. What a great way to start a presidency cause issues with a neighboring country and take away good paying jobs from workers.
https://nypost.com/2021/01/20/canad...ointed-at-biden-plan-to-dash-keystone-xl/amp/

If Biden continued with the pipeline he would be criticized as being in bed with 'leftist Trudeau' and for making a poor environmental decision...but now that Biden backed out of the pipeline, he is being a bad neighbour to Canada and costing jobs.

I have no doubt that we are in for several years of this type of 'damned if he does, damned if he doesn't' type of criticism.

 

[Rational Poster]

Only Irrational Poster would think having a good deal is bad for Americans.

Since they have no other way to export their crude due to BC and Quebec being assholes, Albertans have to sell their oil to our Texas refineries at half-price, crude that is now cheaper than the shipping cost, crude that we can easily turn into gasoline and re-sell back to them and everyone else for profits, and now we're no longer subjected to OPEC's mercy, with our new-found Energy Independence as the world's #1 Energy producer with just North American crude alone.

How is that not a good thing for America?

Yeah, and we're already buying it without the pipeline.

 

[Arkain2K]

Yeah, and we're already buying it without the pipeline.

Did you just skipped right over @Rod1 's post on the condition of the current pipelines that we use to transport Canadian oil? Scratch that, do you even know anything at all about this subject matter?

Which is better for America: switching to a newer and better pipeline and impose higher operation standards on it, or completely relying on the older ones that's currently leaking like a sieve?

If the new KXL pipeline is scrapped and that 800,000 bpd capacity is lost, Canada must find other ways to transport their supplies from the source to the refineries, either by trucks, rails, or try to pump more and more into the old leaky pipes that yet still being expanded more and more to keep up with the demands. It's just simple math.

Enviromentalists on both sides of the borders are cheering for the KXL's demise, but what they can expect from all this is even more headlines on major oil leaks from the older pipes, and potentitally more disasters with traffic accidents involving tanker trucks and trains. Is THAT really good thing for America? For Canada? For the environment?

It's a new year, time to finally start learning what Rationality is and adjust your posting accordingly. You could actually make sense sometimes if you weren't so addicted to being such a partisan loon.

Something that is mutually-beneficial to both countries IS a good thing. The only argument here is environmental, not economics, and the choices here is either using a brand-new pipe or the leaky old pipes.

 

[Rational Poster]

Did you just skipped right over @Rod1 's post on the condition of the current pipelines that we use to transport Canadian oil? Scratch that, do you even know anything at all about this subject matter?

Which is better for America: switching to a newer and better pipeline and impose higher operation standards on it, or completely relying on the older ones that's currently leaking like a sieve?

If the new KXL pipeline is scrapped and that 800,000 bpd capacity is lost, Canada must find other ways to transport their supplies from the source to the refineries, either by trucks, rails, or try to pump more and more into the old leaky pipes that yet still being expanded more and more to keep up with the demands. It's just simple math.

Enviromentalists on both sides of the borders are cheering for the KXL's demise, but what they can expect from all this is even more headlines on major oil leaks from the older pipes, and potentitally more disasters with traffic accidents involving tanker trucks and trains. Is THAT really good thing for America? For Canada? For the environment?

It's a new year, time to finally start learning what Rationality is and adjust your posting accordingly. You could actually make sense sometimes if you weren't so addicted to being such a partisan loon.

Something that is mutually-beneficial to both countries IS a good thing. The only argument here is environmental, not economics, and the choices here is either using a brand-new pipe or the leaky old pipes.

Spare me the bargaining from the party of tariffs.

 

[jefferz]

Yep, no word on reducing shipments, even after old Joe called it "dirty Tar sands." Now 830,000 barrels a day of that dirty Tar oil is going to be transported by older and less efficient means.

Joey just tossed some soy to his base on this one

yeah, those "clean fuel" tar sands

 

[JudoThrowFiasco]

yeah, those "clean fuel" tar sands

Where did I say they were clean? I legit just quoted Joe's words.

And he still seems ok with with about 5 million barrels of it rolling into the US per day

 

[gatchaman]

yeah, those "clean fuel" tar sands

Excuse my interjection, but what does the place where your trash goes to look like?

Here's a picture of a wind farm:

Downstream from a lithium mine:

The Oil Sands aren't in Banff. They're north of Edmonton, Edmonton being one of the few places more than a couple of hundred miles north of the US border with a sizable population. The small concentrations of people north of Edmonton are largely living there to work getting the oil, the energy sector being the largest industry in Canada. The energy sector is the golden goose that allows Canada to act like a northern European welfare state, but with less efficiency. The energy sector in Alberta is the land of milk and honey for unemployed Canadians outside of Alberta. And if you manage to regulate oil extraction to death, Canada doesn't automatically become Germany or Japan. The golden goose just dies, but at least there will be grass instead of mud in a place that you were never going to visit anyways.

 

[Snackbar]

yeah, those "clean fuel" tar sands

What a travesty. I demand they reclaim it back to its original state, Muskeg with hydrocarbons bubbling to the surface.

 

[GoldenWolf87]

How is Biden supposed to sell a war in the middle east if the US isn't dependent on their oil?

Syria/Unstable Libya. No side arent leaving Syria. Biden admin is already sending more Troops in Syria.

 

[shockaholic12]

How many oil tanker spills are in the ocean? Because now you've forced Canada to ship all this oil over seas via ocean line tanker.

Or was the thought process that suddenly people around the globe were gonna all not use oil the moment we stopped the keystone pipeline? Both the US wanting that oil and Canada wanting to sell that oil will remain. They just won't use a pipeline now to transfer it. Maybe they use oil burning trucks to ship it over? Or maybe they sell it over seas? Maybe the US buys more saudi oil again? That would be swell!

So perhaps while not perfect, this method of transportation is more safe and when accidents happen like a spill...it is more easily contained then when it happens in the ocean?

Lol what a drama Queen. Nobody is forcing Canada to process low quality tar sands, it’s their choice. There are a few unquestionable facts, the process and energy with which they refine those low quality sands contributes quite a bit of pollution and also they have proven they are unable to pipe this tar sand without massive spills that dump hundred of thousands of gallons into local water water supplies.

The amount of eminent domain land grabbing that would have had to been down is a whole different story.