Travis Stevens wins silver using BJJ?

[ArtemV]

It was a nice choke, I have seen quite a lot of guys falling to their backs in this competition as soon as they feel like they're getting levitated by their opponents, which is a good tactic, but annoying af. Newaza and rolling in general is fun, but you should get penalized for falling to your back instead of going to takedowns. Even in BJJ, any takedown is a score, so why butt scoot and not learn a simple sweep/throw?

I hope BJJ guys don't try to play Judo. It would become much more boring.

 

[BJJ Coffee Drinker]

MMA is still a sport with rules. Try doing x guard in one championship, you will get your head stomped in. I don't think that was x guard Conor used, if you have a gift or vid it would be cool. X guard overall is a gross tech in my opinion, hate it.

then you obviously don't know what you're talking about. I've seen x-guard used in mama many times before. Its just not held statically like how you might see in BJJ but used quickly in transition.

Some examples off the top of my head
-Robbie Lawler used a butterfly sweep>>x-guard transition to get josh koscheck off of him when he was being held down
-Rory MacDonald looked for x-guard constantly against Demian Maia to ward off his pressure passing top game but was unable to due to Maia's awareness

If you are getting stomped or punched hard while playing x-guard, you are doing something wrong as in letting your opponent base too well.

You don't see it much in MMA because x-guard is an advanced BJJ technique which most MMA fighters do not develop to that level due to the amount of cross training they need to do. We will eventually see it in the future as the sport evolves

 

[mushishi]

The plus side is that it (bjj players going to judo) would increase participation. Minus is that the judo federation doesn't care.

Last time I went to a tournament the Japanese judges hated us bjj guys. One guy double disqualified me and my opponent (bjj dude) for having gi sleeves too short. No warning, no nothing. Judge even came up to me after a match and started talking shit to me, asking me who my sensei was. I was standing next to my sensei, a well known Japanese judoka. I'm done with judo. Can't stand the assholes anymore.

 

[deweydeucalion]

then you obviously don't know what you're talking about. I've seen x-guard used in mama many times before. Its just not held statically like how you might see in BJJ but used quickly in transition.

Some examples off the top of my head
-Robbie Lawler used a butterfly sweep>>x-guard transition to get josh koscheck off of him when he was being held down
-Rory MacDonald looked for x-guard constantly against Demian Maia to ward off his pressure passing top game but was unable to due to Maia's awareness

If you are getting stomped or punched hard while playing x-guard, you are doing something wrong as in letting your opponent base too well.

You don't see it much in MMA because x-guard is an advanced BJJ technique which most MMA fighters do not develop to that level due to the amount of cross training they need to do. We will eventually see it in the future as the sport evolves

The butterfly guard is awesome and is in judo, sombo, catch. If you are pitching a guy off of you from butterfly the x position is going to happen naturally as a transition. Taking that "transition" and making it a standard part of your grappling is like grappling from the dogfight or the turtle positions, you can do it only because the rules allow it but that is not the actual intended functions. Just my opinion.

 

[deweydeucalion]

Last time I went to a tournament the Japanese judges hated us bjj guys. One guy double disqualified me and my opponent (bjj dude) for having gi sleeves too short. No warning, no nothing. Judge even came up to me after a match and started talking shit to me, asking me who my sensei was. I was standing next to my sensei, a well known Japanese judoka. I'm done with judo. Can't stand the assholes anymore.

Don't quit. I don't know you obviously but if you quit the hate wins. The old way of thinking wants to separate everything but bringing things together makes it stronger. There is a great video of roddy ferguson (judoka) taking about overcoming the corrupt IJF.

 

[BJJ Coffee Drinker]

The butterfly guard is awesome and is in judo, sombo, catch. If you are pitching a guy off of you from butterfly the x position is going to happen naturally as a transition. Taking that "transition" and making it a standard part of your grappling is like grappling from the dogfight or the turtle positions, you can do it only because the rules allow it but that is not the actual intended functions. Just my opinion.

what are you talking about? First off you say x-guard is ineffective and garbage in mma. Now you are talking about rules allowing better transition? How about its one of the transitions/techniques that works well regardless of rules? It applies well in any setting and the fact that in works in an art (MMA) with even less rules than grappling sports makes it an effective technique

 

[AK Gerard]

what are you talking about? First off you say x-guard is ineffective and garbage in mma. Now you are talking about rules allowing better transition? How about its one of the transitions/techniques that works well regardless of rules?

He replied to me saying the x guard debate was "exhausted" and not the point of this thread anyways, so I'm just going to assume he's got lots of contradictions to post.

 

[maddog7]

...
One guy double disqualified me and my opponent (bjj dude) for having gi sleeves too short. No warning, no nothing.
...

This is normal not just because of BJJ.

 

[deweydeucalion]

what are you talking about? First off you say x-guard is ineffective and garbage in mma. Now you are talking about rules allowing better transition? How about its one of the transitions/techniques that works well regardless of rules? It applies well in any setting and the fact that in works in an art (MMA) with even less rules than grappling sports makes it an effective technique

I did not say it was garbage in mma. I don't use it (in grappling) and I gave a reason. You can believe that "if my crack is 2 inches above a guys ankle and my left foot is at a 45 degree angle from his nads then it's impossible for him to smash my face in" if you want. Have fun winning using berimbolo.

 

[aus101]

Yes, it is all judo. The only bjj tech that is not in judo is the stuff that doesn't work in a fight like worm guard,rubber guard, x guard and that junk. Travis being very aggressive in turning the opponent from the stomach, the double leg grab pass, those are common tactics in bjj and not so common in "male" judo. bjj is just a different style of judo as is sombo.

Don't know why you seem to think rubber guard doesn't work. We've seen it been used to good effect in the UFC.

 

[TehGwarch]

Yes he is using judo but he got all the way to the finals using guard passes to pins and Bow and arrow chokes. Do you see the future of American/Brazilian judo being populated by bjj players? I do.

Great, then they can turn it into shitty BJJ.

No idea why people want to do Judo when they have no interest in Judo.

It's like going to BJJ comp, throwing people and standing back up until the clock runs out.

Yeah, you won but you still suck at BJJ. lol

 

[TehGwarch]

Some of my bjj classmates had some mma fights. Those wrestlers are really good, hard to control. There is no position that their strength can't get them out of or make dangerous. Good luck.

Beating them up works, they don't like that.

 

[BJJ Coffee Drinker]

I did not say it was garbage in mma. I don't use it (in grappling) and I gave a reason. You can believe that "if my crack is 2 inches above a guys ankle and my left foot is at a 45 degree angle from his nads then it's impossible for him to smash my face in" if you want. Have fun winning using berimbolo.

who said anything about using berimbolo? You debated x-guard. you didn't say it was garbage but your explanation for not using it was basically saying you're going to get your ass kicked using it. You cannot debate it's effectiveness if it has been shown multiple times to be effective in fights across a range of weight classes.

just remember it wasn't too long ago that mama purists said that high kicks were to fancy and ineffective to use in mma/real fights now they are very common

 

[BJJ Coffee Drinker]

Some of my bjj classmates had some mma fights. Those wrestlers are really good, hard to control. There is no position that their strength can't get them out of or make dangerous. Good luck.

seriously?? strength to purely escape? strength + technique to escape is real key
like how these examples of wrestlers escaping:
1-Cain Velasquez escaping Werdum's guillotine
2-Mark Coleman escaping Fedors closed guard amrbar
3-Chael Sonnen escaping Demian Mai's tight triangle
4-Matt Lindland getting out of Jacare's arm triangle

wait.....none of those happened

 

[Hippopo]

Last time I went to a tournament the Japanese judges hated us bjj guys. One guy double disqualified me and my opponent (bjj dude) for having gi sleeves too short. No warning, no nothing. Judge even came up to me after a match and started talking shit to me, asking me who my sensei was. I was standing next to my sensei, a well known Japanese judoka. I'm done with judo. Can't stand the assholes anymore.

I understand you being done with the judo federation, some judges or one particular org, as I know some judo players who're very critical of the whole system (politics, rules, assholes,...), but being "done with judo" altogether seems a bit of an overreaction.
I can't talk for anybody else, but in France, as a bjj player I've had nothing but good exchanges with judo players as far as training goes. I have no idea about competition since it's not my thing, but judo players seem respectful of other arts, and vice versa. We even had Fred Demontfaucon drop at our academy to do a couple of rolls, strictly ne waza, and as a competitor himself he didn't look down on recreational bjj players, was very chill. That's just one example because you might have heard of him, but I've had similar experience with lots of other unknown judo players.

 

[rmongler]

I dunno if anyone has mentioned this, but this has actually been the us judo team strategy for getting medals for a while now.

Way back in the day Jimmy Pedro Jr. himself promulgated the strategy that they won't beat the Japanese by trying to get better kuzushi than the Japanese, but by grip fighting and ne waza.

Prevent the grips for the other guys big throw, drag the action to the mat, and pin or submit.

 

[mike sherry]

Of course this thread boiled down to "hes only using judo"

Just look at his training schedule, it completely destroys that argument. Childish responses..

 

[discrawg]

Interesting, I haven't seen the matches. Have to look it up.

 

[maddog7]

Of course this thread boiled down to "hes only using judo"

Just look at his training schedule, it completely destroys that argument. Childish responses..

He got his bjj black belt in 18 months training bjj part time.
How did he do that?
Undeserved?
Extreme prodigy?
Or maybe , just maybe he could already do most of the bjj curriculum better than 99.999% of all 'jitz' guys ever will be able to?

 

[Uchi Mata]

Great, then they can turn it into shitty BJJ.

No idea why people want to do Judo when they have no interest in Judo.

It's like going to BJJ comp, throwing people and standing back up until the clock runs out.

Yeah, you won but you still suck at BJJ. lol

The future of US Judo is not a bunch of BJJ guys. They'd get thrown on their asses. Travis has excellent standup, it just so happens that one place where he has a comparative advantage against elite competition is on the ground, so that's where he gets a lot of wins. Kayla too. It doesn't mean they don't spend most of their time working on throws. This is like when BJJ guys get all butt hurt and scared about wrestlers coming into BJJ: yes, they have some areas of advantage, but they're not going to do shit against a well rounded upper belt under BJJ rules no matter how good they are at wrestling because they're different sports. What I think you're likely to see is WHAT AMERICAN JUDOKA ALREADY DO: continue to focus on having excellent ne waza because we typically aren't as slick of throwers as nations like France and Japan produce. Kayla doesn't train BJJ at all as far as I know, and I believe she won all her matches including the gold medal match on the ground. Travis definitely gets benefit from training a lot of BJJ in his ne waza, but American Judoka have been concentrating on matwork long before BJJ was hot on the scene.