Travis Stevens wins silver using BJJ?

[Ryo]

He's using Judo techniques in a Judo match...

 

[trustdoesntrust]

He won using Judo. Nothing about what he did, or the techniques he used was very unique. Several other Judoka have done the same things and medaled.

The over/under pass to side control he used to pin his opponent in the quarterfinals seemed to have a distinctly BJJ quality to it. That may be a technique other judokas can do, but I'm skeptical there are many who'd do it quite like that.

 

[deweydeucalion]

I don't think anyone is denying that all BJJ techniques are derived from Judo. The point is BJJ hones the techniques that are successful on the ground. This year the refs allowed far more newaza than I've ever seen and it was great. If this trend continues than Judo programs with weak Newaza will see their athletes cross train with the neighborhood BJJ dealer.

And the universe will be in balance

 

[t3c9]

In my opinion bjj is judo, just with different rules. Judo makes you a better bjj player and the reverse is true. Every competitor is looking for an edge, cross training is the edge. Travis was so close to gold.

Lol

 

[Ring>>Cage]

He's using Judo techniques in a Judo match...

That he honed by cross training at Renzo Gracie academy.

 

[deweydeucalion]

A choke like that will start already before the throwing action goes to the mat, just a quick adjustment of the lapel grip and the rest is pretty much details...

The details is what bjj gives you. naturally a guy that spends 4 hours a day on the ground is going to have better details in that area. Kayla also trains bjj at Renzo's

 

[BJ@LW&WW]

dont you people ever get tired of this same discussion. the two arts have a ton of overlapping techniques. it doesnt matter whether you call it koshi jime or a clock choke

 

[Gorbag]

The details is what bjj gives you. naturally a guy that spends 4 hours a day on the ground is going to have better details in that area. Kayla also trains bjj at Renzo's

I think we must wait for Rener and the Gracie breakdown to clear this up! Being serious though, judokas are more advanced in taking advantage in the transition from standing to ground and thats a very different ballgame from Bjj.

 

[Uchi Mata]

The bow and arrow choke was a very normal Judo choke. The guard pass he used in the quarters was straight from BJJ, I've never seen a Judo guy pass in that manner. But there's no reason they shouldn't and as time goes on I imagine that Judo will pull the few things from BJJ that will work under Judo rules and they'll become part of the standard ne waza repertoire. BJJ would have done the same thing, but having come from Judo most Judo that works in BJJ was integrated from the start.

 

[winterbike]

I notice that the more non physical bjj players are the ones that do not want to wrestle (ever) and just flop or butt scoot. Nothing wrong with that. I'm thinking that the athletes of the bjj class can focus on judo cross training. Judo culture is slowly changing to cross train as the coaches get younger.

If I want to optimize my training time it's hard to cross train judo because a lot of it doesn't translate to BJJ at all (especially with the new rules), like not touching the legs or the penalties on certain grips. And there are very few BJJ-oriented judo clubs out there, sadly.

 

[deweydeucalion]

You mean in a judo fight? X guard has worked in mma at the elite level (Conor swep Diaz with it).

MMA is still a sport with rules. Try doing x guard in one championship, you will get your head stomped in. I don't think that was x guard Conor used, if you have a gift or vid it would be cool. X guard overall is a gross tech in my opinion, hate it.

 

[deweydeucalion]

The bow and arrow choke was a very normal Judo choke. The guard pass he used in the quarters was straight from BJJ, I've never seen a Judo guy pass in that manner. But there's no reason they shouldn't and as time goes on I imagine that Judo will pull the few things from BJJ that will work under Judo rules and they'll become part of the standard ne waza repertoire. BJJ would have done the same thing, but having come from Judo most Judo that works in BJJ was integrated from the start.

What judo tech doesn't work in bjj? From what I see every judo move is effective in bjj gi competition.

 

[fanboysareevil]

Undoubtedly, his BJJ helped, and he probably passes guard better than just about any Judoka out there. That said, it's still Judo, and he won primarily with Judo.

Also lol'd at comment about rule changes

MMA is still a sport with rules. Try doing x guard in one championship, you will get your head stomped in. I don't think that was x guard Conor used, if you have a gift or vid it would be cool. X guard overall is a gross tech in my opinion, hate it.

I'm sorry but you're really quite wrong. X guard isn't common in MMA, but it's definitely not some unheard of rarity either. It IS pretty much unheard of to see people get pounded for trying it though. Generally people that get there in MMA either get a sweep or get to their feet. Honestly has a pretty damn good track record for MMA.

 

[Zankou]

dont you people ever get tired of this same discussion. the two arts have a ton of overlapping techniques. it doesnt matter whether you call it koshi jime or a clock choke

That's why to me it's not whether a technique is 'bjj' or 'judo', which is a pointless distinction except for a handful of techniques that are affirmatively illegal or non-existent in judo.

The question is whether training/competing bjj is where he got his *level of technique* from.

 

[deweydeucalion]

If I want to optimize my training time it's hard to cross train judo because a lot of it doesn't translate to BJJ at all (especially with the new rules), like not touching the legs or the penalties on certain grips. And there are very few BJJ-oriented judo clubs out there, sadly.

You don't need a judo club to train judo. In the 80's Sombo, bjj and Japanese jujitsu all competed in judo because there wasn't populated leagues of their own. bjj players can train parts of judo that contribute to their sport (all of judo) but you have to compete in judo. You will never get good at stand up sparing with bjj floppers

 

[deweydeucalion]

Undoubtedly, his BJJ helped, and he probably passes guard better than just about any Judoka out there. That said, it's still Judo, and he won primarily with Judo.

Also lol'd at comment about rule changes



I'm sorry but you're really quite wrong. X guard isn't common in MMA, but it's definitely not some unheard of rarity either. It IS pretty much unheard of to see people get pounded for trying it though. Generally people that get there in MMA either get a sweep or get to their feet. Honestly has a pretty damn good track record for MMA.

I'll have to look into it more. You are right under the opponents punching power, I don't even want to practice that. I know it's a sport and not a self defense but that's pushing it.

 

[Uchi Mata]

What judo tech doesn't work in bjj? From what I see every judo move is effective in bjj gi competition.

I don't agree with that. Yes, if you're a badass Judoka going against a relatively incompetent BJJ guy you can get away with pretty much anything. But the risk to reward ratio of some of the most common techniques in Judo is all wrong for BJJ, not to mention that many are impractical due to differences in stance, the way throws are scored, and the need to end up in a superior position. Take a throw like uchi mata, one of my favorites. Great throw for Judo, lots of ippons off uchi mata. But how many of those pretty ippons involve tori rolling through? And if tori fails on the throw and ends up on the bottom in turtle, what happens in Judo? You stall and stand back up. What happens in BJJ if you roll through your nice throw or mess it up and end up facing down in turtle? Now you're in a serious hole in the match. It's just not good strategy unless you know you have massive superiority on the feet, and that pretty much goes away by purple belt or so (just because by that time competitive BJJ guys have learned how to deal with people who throw better than them, often by pulling guard). So yes, in an ideal world you could throw someone with uki otoshi in a BJJ match, but it's not realistic and it's certainly not a good investment of time on the part of any BJJ guy to try and learn those throws to the level they'd need them to be at to have a good chance of making them work in a match. The Judo you see in BJJ is pretty much limited to drop morote seio nage, kouchi gari, and ouchi gari because those work against bent over, defensive guys and are relatively safe in terms of being able to bail safely if you mess up the throw. Most of the TDs in BJJ are more similar to wrestling, since double legs, single legs, and ankle picks are often very safe to attempt and leave you in good position to pass if you do hit it. I maintain that BJJ standup is a lot more like wrestling than it is like Judo, mostly because of the imperative to keep going after even a perfect throw, plus the fact that you can't stall your way to your feet if you end up in a bad position.

 

[fanboysareevil]

If you understand the position, you're not in a position to be hit with any force in X. You're safer than you would be in the closed guard. Safer than half guard by leagues. It's getting there efficiently without exposing yourself to strikes that is difficult, which is why it is seen less (that and a lot of MMA fighters don't do a ton of BJJ), not because the position itself is anything less than extremely desirable.

 

[Uchi Mata]

I'll have to look into it more. You are right under the opponents punching power, I don't even want to practice that. I know it's a sport and not a self defense but that's pushing it.

It's pretty hard for someone to punch you when your legs are between your upper body and their hips. It's why you rarely see anyone get beaten up from leg entanglements: contrary to popular belief, positions like 50/50 are some of the safest in terms of not getting punched because your opponent simply can't reach you with any power.

 

[trustdoesntrust]

If you understand the position, you're not in a position to be hit with any force in X. You're safer than you would be in the closed guard. Safer than half guard by leagues. It's getting there efficiently without exposing yourself to strikes that is difficult, which is why it is seen less (that and a lot of MMA fighters don't do a ton of BJJ), not because the position itself is anything less than extremely desirable.

I'm not sure I agree. A big killer of a lot of sport BJJ guards in MMA is not the striking in itself, but the counter weight that comes from basing and striking down on your opponent. For example, a good sport way to defend against x-guard is to drive your far knee into your opponent's chest, perhaps also grab his collar or behind his head, and drive your weight toward your opponent's head (even if your opponent has a good underhook on your front leg, it's still a good idea to drive your weight toward as opposed to upright or away). So, the posture you'd use in MMA to elbow your opponent's face is also a good posture to defend against the sweep.