Travis Mash calls out Rippetoe

I like to put a heavy bar on my back. Then I squat down really low and stand back up.

Apparently I need to put more thought and emotion into this.
 
Apparently it caused enough of a stir that the article was taken down.
 
TheeFaulted said:
Just saw that.
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Smart move on their part. Just reading the comments it was clear that no one was really fooled by the intent of the article. It wasn't meant to point out a difference of opinion, it was designed to be controversial in an attempt to A. get some page views B. garner interest from the cultish crossfit followers that have no reservations about spending money.
 
KILL KILL said:
Smart move on their part. Just reading the comments it was clear that no one was really fooled by the intent of the article. It wasn't meant to point out a difference of opinion, it was designed to be controversial in an attempt to A. get some page views B. garner interest from the cultish crossfit followers that have no reservations about spending money.
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Hiding behind ignorance makes it seem even more like conspiracy to produce controversy.
 
Golden croc said:
People are being too hard on ol Rip. He wasnt a better powerlifter because when everyone around him was on the juice he chose not to.
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His lifts were mediocre for a clean lifter. State level comp at best.
 
Golden croc said:
People are being too hard on ol Rip. He wasnt a better powerlifter because when everyone around him was on the juice he chose not to.
Im happy that legit strength coaches are cashing in. Who knows maybe one day crossfit will be what it must have been all along:

A half conditioning half lightweight strongman type of thing.
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Rip's best single ply squat was 611?

I worked up to a 585 squat, without wraps, after an entire squat workout, the very first time I tried a buddy's old, ill-fitting Titan Centurion single ply squat suit.

Brb, releasing a book.
 
Because the only criteria for teaching others to lift well is how much you lifted in the past.
 
I enjoyed SS and had great results but Im not much of a fan of Rip. He is an elitist prick and controversial in his own right.
 
oyaji poi said:
Because the only criteria for teaching others to lift well is how much you lifted in the past.
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No, but can you see that it is very hard to earn the respect of elite athletes when one was not elite and hasnt produced many/any elite athletes one's self?
 
Dirty Holt said:
No, but can you see that it is very hard to earn the respect of elite athletes when one was not elite and hasnt produced many/any elite athletes one's self?
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Would you say that the second criterion is more important than the first?


In relation to "starting strength" is the "elite" element really relevant? Was Rippetoe setting out to get a few people elite strong, or many people strong at the basic barbell lifts?
 
gnuckols said:
Hey guys, just wanted to jump in and add another voice to the discussion. I actually wrote a response piece: http://gregnuckols.com/2013/09/19/travis-vs-rippetoe-revisited/

As someone who's a coach at Travis's gym (and someone mentioned in the article), I wanted to clear the air a little bit and give more context about the issue as a whole.
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Nice read. You pretty much said what everyone else was thinking. But it's clear that wasn't Mash's intent when writing his article. He wanted to discredit Ripp and not point out the differences between technique.
 
gnuckols said:
Hey guys, just wanted to jump in and add another voice to the discussion. I actually wrote a response piece: http://gregnuckols.com/2013/09/19/travis-vs-rippetoe-revisited/

As someone who's a coach at Travis's gym (and someone mentioned in the article), I wanted to clear the air a little bit and give more context about the issue as a whole.
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Would have been better if you cleared the air on why your boss needed to write a hatchet job and embarrass himself.
 
jrams said:
Would have been better if you cleared the air on why your boss needed to write a hatchet job and embarrass himself.
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I'll bite.

The primary reason was that the "hip drive" videos are terrible. My full thoughts about the cue are given in my response to the article, but here's the issue: while I realize it's a cue that has merit within a specific context, the videos Rip has made lack context.

When you're Rip, and you put out those videos saying, "here's how to squat," and not, "here's what you can do if you have an excessively knee-dominant squat, meant to apply until your chest and hips are rising at the same time," you wind up with legions of noobs squatting wrong. I'd wager that 80% of SS Rip-devotees squat like the guy in the videos (shooting his butt WAY up, resulting in a GM) rather than the way Rip actually describes the squat in SS.

For that reason, I think the article was warranted, albeit poorly done.

However, I think Travis's article should have stayed primarily on the subjects of biomechanics, proper cuing, and providing context for information. I, too, thought that calling him a rookie and the overall tone of the article were uncalled for.

However, I will say this for Travis. He's the type of person who isn't afraid to act, he makes decisions confidently, he's not afraid to stand out and put a target on himself, and he doesn't mince words or half-ass things. Those qualities occasionally mean he submits a bad article and has to eat a slice of humble pie. But they also contributed to his success as an athlete and a business owner.
 
KILL KILL said:
Nice read. You pretty much said what everyone else was thinking. But it's clear that wasn't Mash's intent when writing his article. He wanted to discredit Ripp and not point out the differences between technique.
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This. For an abrasive person like Rippetoe to come out of this shit smelling like roses says a lot about the other people involved.


Seriously, what the hell were Mash and Smith thinking posting something like that? It was pure character assassination and it blew up in their faces.


Mash made himself look like a complete fool, as did Chad Wesley Smith when he posted the retraction, and then retracted the retraction.
 
gnuckols said:
I'll bite.

The primary reason was that the "hip drive" videos are terrible. My full thoughts about the cue are given in my response to the article, but here's the issue: while I realize it's a cue that has merit within a specific context, the videos Rip has made lack context.

When you're Rip, and you put out those videos saying, "here's how to squat," and not, "here's what you can do if you have an excessively knee-dominant squat, meant to apply until your chest and hips are rising at the same time," you wind up with legions of noobs squatting wrong. I'd wager that 80% of SS Rip-devotees squat like the guy in the videos (shooting his butt WAY up, resulting in a GM) rather than the way Rip actually describes the squat in SS.

A discussion based on stuff like this is how the S&C industry improves and should have been emphasized, and I'm sure many people would like to see such an article.



For that reason, I think the article was warranted, albeit poorly done.

However, I think Travis's article should have stayed primarily on the subjects of biomechanics, proper cuing, and providing context for information. I, too, thought that calling him a rookie and the overall tone of the article were uncalled for.

However, I will say this for Travis. He's the type of person who isn't afraid to act, he makes decisions confidently, he's not afraid to stand out and put a target on himself, and he doesn't mince words or half-ass things. Those qualities occasionally mean he submits a bad article and has to eat a slice of humble pie. But they also contributed to his success as an athlete and a business owner.
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Those video clips are taken out of context, the full SS video and book don't teach people to raise butt first. But if that is what many people are doing then clearly the problem is with the instruction. It would be the same as people watching clips of you guys teaching O-lifts and only starting from the knees.

So is the problem Rippetoe's methods? Or the people who watch a 4min clip on youtube and go squat wrong?

PS: I don't know if you check Rippetoe's message board but he offered to host the article on his site after Smith took it down, and invited Mash to discuss squat technique and clear the air.
 
oyaji poi said:
Those video clips are taken out of context, the full SS video and book don't teach people to raise butt first. But if that is what many people are doing then clearly the problem is with the instruction. It would be the same as people watching clips of you guys teaching O-lifts and only starting from the knees.

So is the problem Rippetoe's methods? Or the people who watch a 4min clip on youtube and go squat wrong?

PS: I don't know if you check Rippetoe's message board but he offered to host the article on his site after Smith took it down, and invited Mash to discuss squat technique and clear the air.
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When you're making a 4 minute video, what's another 15 seconds at the beginning saying "this is a useful cue if you have such-and-such problem?" I'm not criticizing the way he teaches the squat on the whole, but the videos are misleading in isolation, and when you're putting information on the internet, you have a be prepared for legions of people with miniscule attention spans taking one little piece of info and running with it without taking time to understand your methods as a whole. The fact that he failed to give context for his video is the larger issue than the video itself, IMO. And yes, I think when you're someone with as large of a following as he has, he should be held accountable for the information he disseminates, both in terms of content and presentation. Travis called me today and we discussed it, and we both agreed on that point. Again, not a blanket defense of Travis's article which I think crossed some lines, but a point worth considering.

Based on my discussion with Travis today, I think he's down for it, as long as it can be hosted at a neutral site.
 
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