Transsexual BJJ brown belt does her public coming out.

Find me one example of this, I'll wait.

Me, for one. I didn't even realize Fallon Fox was meant to be a woman until I read a headline under her picture. Alaina Hardie is totally unconvincing - just looks like a man with long-ish, pink hair and a bit of make-up on. I wasn't shocked at all when Hardie "came out", because I'd seen an picture before and thought "that's not a woman".
 
Saw some of your matches.U had strength advantage in most of them.You just seem more solid ,and stocky..U got great technique too,but I dont see anyone beating you by overpowering you,which can happen to some of your opponents.

But,thats happening in every category in bjj,mma and other sports.You see guys in same devision,same weight class and one guy is just much stronger than his opponent.There is difference ofc,because they are naturally stronger than other guy,you are stronger because u fight against "natural" females.its small advantage and it doesnt make much difference on higher lvl.If someone is much more technical he(she) ll beat you anyway.
You are skilled grappler,and i hope you dont get the wrong idea from my post.English is not my first language.
 
Me, for one... I'd seen an picture before and thought "that's not a woman".
So I ask you for one instance that isn't confirmation bias and your answer is "I knew it all along"? I was asking you to find something that wasn't retrospective confirmation bias, not to illustrate the definition of it.

It's a case of where the average for a given population falls. By that I mean if the average hand size of trans women is greater than the average hand size of women from birth, then there's an unfair advantage. But a couple of individuals does not a scientific study make. So from a scientific point of view, it shouldn't matter where an individual's hand size falls if you want to clear or deny a group from competition.
The other issue here is which population would we take the average of?
The average woman?
The average athletic woman?
The average female BJJ practicioner?
The average female BJJ competitor?
The average WMMArtist?
The average (successful) WMMArtist?
Even once we pick one of those "average" populations, we'd still need to find some way to isolate how "average" changes depending on whether someone has ever seen the inside of a weight room before...
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Hunt and Lombard have absolutely gigantic bone structure and width for men of their height.
True, anyone who is shorter but equally heavy with the same BMI as other people in their weight class has bulk somewhere, but the claim I was responding to was that narrow hips and wide shoulders allow people to hit harder and are the result of evolutionary optimization for fighting. If they were true, larger shoulder:hip ratios should correspond to stronger punchers given equal mass. Mark Hunt's shoulder:hip ratio is closer to Grimace than to Jon Jones or Stefan Struve but that doesn't make either of them unsuited for MMA. My point is that we don't know what the "best" body type is for MMA or BJJ, which makes claims about X body type being unfair premature.

to any man who says "i identify with being female, therefore i am female and will live as one". sorry but that does not make you female
That's where the gender reassignment surgery and hormone replacement therapy come in. Nobody is arguing that men should arbitrarily be able to declare they're fighting in the women's division at random tournaments. There's a part in between a person identifying as female and competing with the opposite sex during which *science happens* Did you think the subject said "Transvestite BJJ brown belt"?

take that same argument but instead it is some 45 year old guy "i identify with being a 12 year old, therefore i am 12 and can legally have sex with other 12 year olds". people would have quite a different reaction but it is the same shit.
Are you actually comparing gender dysphoria to statutory rape of a minor? Please be trolling.
 
Actually, I did address this. I have posted the 2003 study on skeletal dimensions several times. There is great morphological variation within a gender, as you can see by looking at the bodies of female fighters (or the bodies of male fighters). Both Fallon and I fall within the normal range of female bodies.

I have a question, while you may indeed fall within the normal range of female bodies now is that in the higher region of normal? I'd like to know what was your athletic performance as a male. I think what a lot of people have a problem with is that if you were in the bottom 25 percentile of normal as a male athlete and then have a sex change and are now in the upper 25 percentile of normal as a female athlete they view that as unfair.
 
...I think what a lot of people have a problem with is that if you were in the bottom 25 percentile of normal as a male athlete and then have a sex change and are now in the upper 25 percentile of normal as a female athlete they view that as unfair.

only if you presuppose that the sole reason for the change is to win at a sporting competition, which is completely asinine.
 
Are you actually comparing gender dysphoria to statutory rape of a minor? Please be trolling.
Do you think the statutory rapist consciously chooses to want to rape a child? He has his own mental perspective, just like you do, I do, transgenders do, etc.
 
The other issue here is which population would we take the average of?
The average woman?
The average athletic woman?
The average female BJJ practicioner?
The average female BJJ competitor?
The average WMMArtist?
The average (successful) WMMArtist?
Even once we pick one of those "average" populations, we'd still need to find some way to isolate how "average" changes depending on whether someone has ever seen the inside of a weight room before...

Average women would be the best way to do it.

And if you take a large enough sample size it doesn't matter.
 
Do you think the statutory rapist consciously chooses to want to rape a child? He has his own mental perspective, just like you do, I do, transgenders do, etc.

Right.


But that is not the arguement. When a rapist has urges, those urges are presumed to be natural and his or her "mental perspective", we can agree. Those urges do not harm anyone unless they turn into action which then does harm the victim.

If you have urges to rape, murder, do anything that brings harm to others, it does not mean you just get to freely act on those natural urges with some sort of pass.

The action of going through gender reassignment (the act in response to the natural "urge" and "mental perspective") does not directly "harm" anyone or society like the rapist act in response to the urges does.

I suppose the arguement would be that competing as a trans woman against non trans woman would "harm" the non trans woman, and that is the debate going on here...

Even then we are talking harm in competitive sports vs physical and mental harm caused by a traumatizing event. In MMA where the harm could be a little more extreme than other sports, it becomes an excellent case to study. Will a trans woman do more damage than an non trans woman in the cage/ring? Doesn't seem so from the debate I have been reading here but I am still far from educated on the matter.

Plus, if the woman knows and accepts a fight with a trans woman, doesn't this become moot.


a man who identifies with or has had a sex change is not a female. they should compete as whatever they were born as or there should be a transgender class in bjj/mma.

to any man who says "i identify with being female, therefore i am female and will live as one". sorry but that does not make you female

take that same argument but instead it is some 45 year old guy "i identify with being a 12 year old, therefore i am 12 and can legally have sex with other 12 year olds". people would have quite a different reaction but it is the same shit.

No. There is no "age reassignment" to make someone who identifies with being 12 actually become a 12 year old.

What you fail to understand is that a man who identifies as a woman actually does believe themself to be a woman and once they go through the surgery and treatment, the man becomes a female by more than just what they feel. From what I understand, they have the mental and physical attributes of a woman.
 
I think you're an excellent poster, but you still can't say with any kind of conviction that you know that trans women have no advantage.

And you can't say with any kind of conviction whether or not they're at a *disadvantage.* (As unlikely as it sounds, and I don't even believe it, but there just isn't enough information either way.)

So do the trans women get to vote here, or just the natural women?

That's a serious question.

I'm curious as well.

The question is would a transgender/transexual athlete (male to female)enjoy an advantage given the same or similar weight when competing against a naturally born female especially in light of the evidence that males are stronger even at the same weight?

...They're no longer males, so there is no question here. Edit: Disregard, mis-read your post at first. I have no opinion one way or the other, however.

Does the law differentiate assault between genders, or just look at the grievousness of the incident?

No, it does not. Assault is assault AFAIK, grievousness/intent are the measuring stick.

As a dude did you ever resent women so now you want to strangle them in payback?

-snip-

If you are a transexual/transgendered person just say so. Why hide it?

1. This is some of the most ridiculous piece of hate-filled trash I've seen on this topic.
2. Why hide it?! Fear of assault from anti-LGBT/super-religious zealots/other, social stigma, etc, etc, etc. People hide just being gay - SRS is far and above 'just being gay' in the eyes of these prejudiced people.

I can't fathom why you'd even need to ask that question. Seriously.

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Trianglegrrl, you have my full support to compete in grappling tourneys, but we disagree when it comes to Fallon Fox. Bone density may be a hindrance (if anything at all) in BJJ, but, and this is only opinion with no 'facts' to back it up, seems like it could very much help with striking.
 
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No. There is no "age reassignment" to make someone who identifies with being 12 actually become a 12 year old.

What you fail to understand is that a man who identifies as a woman actually does believe themself to be a woman and once they go through the surgery and treatment, the man becomes a female by more than just what they feel. From what I understand, they have the mental and physical attributes of a woman.

i am not failing to understand shit. I just use your argument but apply that same argument to something people are still appalled by (don't worry, i am sure the media will change this one day)

a man who believes himself to be a woman is even MORE delusional than a 40 year old dude who thinks he is a 12 year old boy. The 40 year old man ACTUALLY was a 12 year old boy at one point. Shit, the dude could Nair off all of his body hair even. The man could actually believe he was 12. Just like the nut in the loony bin can REALLY believe he is Abraham Lincoln.

a man who gets a banana split and takes some boobie pills is not a woman. You are born a male or born a female and that is it.

you can have whatever silly operation you want and take hormones and tell yourself over and over that you are a woman..but if you are born with a penis you will NEVER be a woman. never.

You think being a woman is having male genitalia cut off and take estrogen pills and really believe you are a woman? you are just wrong.

These dudes who think they are woman, how do they KNOW what it is like to be a woman? how? it is impossible for them to ever fathom. Just like it is impossible for a woman to ever fathom what it is like to be a man. It is unknowable. We just cannot transfer that type of information.

sorry, you cannot be whatever you want to be. You can be many things but there are restrictions on those possibilities. If you want to be a transexual or sexchanger or whatever, that is great. just don't say you are the opposite sex because no one is believing that shit.
 
Not in the written statutes but police, judges and juries tend to. A guy with a black eye from his wife is more often than not viewed differently than a wife with a black eye from her husband. I've seen personal examples where guys get jailed for shoving a woman and also guys being dissuaded by police in making criminal complaints against women who have left them with physical damage.

As far as Alaina Hardie goes, I've talked to her personally on a couple of occasions, even reffed at least one of her grappling matches, and I've heard her refer to herself as lesbian but never trans. Several years back there were rumors about Ralph Gracie black belt Kelly Paul being a transwoman (she even looked like a guy) but I guess she never came out. She beat another top notch grappler who is a friend of mine in a major tournament and I remember my friend telling me that Kelly was stronger than anyone she's ever faced.

Hi, just letting you know that “Kelly Paul” is a transman, not transwoman. Trans men are men who were sex assigned female at birth. His sex assignment at birth did not match his gender identity, so he underwent a medical and physical transition from female to male.

Same applies for trans women.
 
I rate this necro a 1 hormone blocker out of 10.
 
Because trans people are actively misunderstood and discriminated against, have you seen the horrible things people like mitrione said about fallon fox? its to raiae awareness that they are people and thus deserve to be treated the same. chances are you have met someone who is trans and had no idea because they have to hide it like some dirty secret from everybody.

If you like to cutoff your penis it’s your business and no one else, and no one should be allow to fuck you over for that. Now when you cutoff your penis and pretend to be a woman and join combat sports to fight another real woman, your are a piece of shit. No amount of estrogens will make you a full on woman, the level isn’t fair , so no trans should be allow to fight another natural woman, period.
 
Why get outraged against leftist pseudo-science at a grappling forum? Seems super silly.
 
If you like to cutoff your penis it’s your business and no one else, and no one should be allow to fuck you over for that. Now when you cutoff your penis and pretend to be a woman and join combat sports to fight another real woman, your are a piece of shit. No amount of estrogens will make you a full on woman, the level isn’t fair , so no trans should be allow to fight another natural woman, period.

Right now I think the only way to be fair to clean, female fighters is for transpeople of either biological sex, to have to fight in the mens division. Purely because male to female have thicker bones which = disproportionate punching poewr, and in the case of female to men - they are literally on roids to make them more like a man.

I felt bad for that transgender kid (biologically female, identifies as male) who is being forced to wrestle the women, in spite of wanting to wrestle the men.
 
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