training doesn't guarantee success

[TheAth-ah-lete]

I agree that there are a lot of people who have trained for a few months maybe who all of a sudden think they have streetfighter kryptonite, but seriously, a guy who has been training for 6 months, is in good condition, and doesn't have a learning disability is going to DESTROY your average guy on the street.

Have you seen the average guy try to fight? Most streetfights get stopped before they ever really happen, or it's a one sided beat down. If a regular Joe throws his best punch and it doesn't put down his opponent, and he has to get hit in the head and throw more punches he's gassed, his ass is kicked.

Also, you started this off talking about regular guys who train versus regular guys who don't train, and then you started bringing up pro fighters. You're way off base here pal. There is absolutely ZERO comparison. The difference between a mediocre pro and a good amateur is huge. The toughest guy in my gym wouldn't stand a chance against say a journeyman like Karo Parisyan.

 

[roadworkny]

During my younger days i got into a bunch of different street fights and even if your not fending off multiple attackers by yourself usually it's groups of people fighting eachother. theres just so many things that you cant account for in the street..

i'm not even sure how much sparring helps.. alot of the time sparrign sessions start out slow jabbing in and out and you usually have a idea what ur opponent is trying to do to setup their shots while in the street someone could just come in throwing bombs and you might not expect it..

 

[Mef-ninja]

my buddy being doing muay thai for 5months.. hes 5'5... 140pounds

he thought he was the ultimate badass.. and kept staring fights.. anyways.. he learned his lession -_-

 

[Machete Juarez]

maybe with that ninja "death punch" from fight science...

 

[R.Grisly]

MA training barely translates into a confrontation on the street. Most fights are lost with in the first five seconds of the ambush, pro or joe, doesn't matter.

 

[Dog Soldier]

Define untrained:

Are we talking about some chip munching beer guzzling windbag who risks pulling a muscle taking a dump here?

It's one thing to blather on at length about "some guy with casual training" against "untrained"

But exactly what the fuck constitutes being untrained in the OP's book?

 

[Jpos]

sapp v nog- a bjj virtuoso and one of the best mma boxers in the sport, got beat the f*ck up and mauled by an unskilled big strong athletic heavyweight.

royce v kimo- royce was roughed up and worn out by a big strong UNSKILLED, tough guy

Although I do agree with your overall point, I think you picked two bad examples to support it. You do realize that both Royce and Nog end up winning these fights right? I personally think these fights are both good examples of how with training, a vastly smaller, weaker, and less physical person can defeat a much larger, stronger opponent. The early UFC's were proof of this, since the Gracie family chose their smallest, weakest, and technically worst fighter in the family to represent them. Not to mention the fact that your two example tough guys are not in any way shape or form unskilled. Kimo is a black belt in Tae Kwon Do, and Jiu Jitsu, and Sapp is a K-1 kickboxer. Once again I agree with your overall point, in that fighting is in no way a static situation, but training and trying to prepare for the chaos are smaller, weaker peoples only hope.

 

[ghost scribble]

Very true, I completely agree. That's why even though I've been trained in several ma's and self defense techniques I'm always hesitant to get into fights and try to avoid those kinds of people/situations as much as possible.

There are just too many unknowns to walk around thinking that just because you've been doing MMA for a couple years that you can't be knocked out by a thug on the streets...

 

[devante]

Although I do agree with your overall point, I think you picked two bad examples to support it. You do realize that both Royce and Nog end up winning these fights right? I personally think these fights are both good examples of how with training, a vastly smaller, weaker, and less physical person can defeat a much larger, stronger opponent. The early UFC's were proof of this, since the Gracie family chose their smallest, weakest, and technically worst fighter in the family to represent them. Not to mention the fact that your two example tough guys are not in any way shape or form unskilled. Kimo is a black belt in Tae Kwon Do, and Jiu Jitsu, and Sapp is a K-1 kickboxer. Once again I agree with your overall point, in that fighting is in no way a static situation, but training and trying to prepare for the chaos are smaller, weaker peoples only hope.

i just used them cus those guys had HUGE tech adv over their larger/athletic opp, sure they had some skill; but for all intents and purposes they were unskilled when compared to who they faced. YET THEY STILL were able to do considerable damage in spite of a lack of skill and conditionin. ALSO KIMO HAS NO TKD BLKBLT HE MADE THAT SH*T up if i recall correctly it was written in a book about early ufc's

hell i remember an article about a bjj blkblt (instructer) fighting a blind weightlifter/body builder and he subbed him after like 5min; it took a bjj blkblt five min to tap out a blind untrained bodybuilder, a bjj instructor. An this was back when bjj was fresh on the scene so if a bjj blkblt had tht much trouble; what does that tell u a white blue belt might have when faced w/a bigger stronger opp who actually has an idea of what they are being attacked w/. Sure he won; but according to what most have posted here, it should have been done in less than a minute.

i honestly think kimbo (prior to his training); would probably tool alot of so called trained martial artist, an all he is/was is a big athletic guy w/naturally good hands (handspeed/power)

training allows u to have options and opp to win; but doesn't mean u can't or won't lose, as most trained people i know aren't prepared to fight back... Training means u can fight..but the question is can u fight back

 

[devante]

Very true, I completely agree. That's why even though I've been trained in several ma's and self defense techniques I'm always hesitant to get into fights and try to avoid those kinds of people/situations as much as possible.

There are just too many unknowns to walk around thinking that just because you've been doing MMA for a couple years that you can't be knocked out by a thug on the streets...

anythng can happen, an i respect that; so i do the same, people assume cus i train i can and will handle all types of situations. Im like naw i train in case it HAS to go down, not cus im looking for it too.

i have seen trained boxers-muay thai-bjj-wrestlers beat down by untrained guys, if for no other reason than there are no rules; or they were facing a big athletic opp

 

[Marvin Covar]

Anything can happen in a fight, which is why you train your ass off to make sure you come out on top.

 

[speedlight]

sorry but i train twice a day and il be damned if i lose to a guy who doesnt train

 

[Tor33r]

I have explained and it is a waste for breath. The train for a few months and think they are certified bad asses. They get their ass kicked and learn better.

 

[Daido_Juku]

for me, years of training(everyday) will lead up to beating your opponent in the street(no weapons). Even his 300 lbs, a high kick can knock him out. His huge but what experience does he have? Some people who are bully on the streets are people who also cant take pain. If you give him a hard "BALL" roundhouse. That's enough to stun him after that we better run to escape more conflict.

 

[goosebumps88*]

i dont underestimate anyone and i don't appreciate anyone who makes an assumption that they can or will walk through anyone they may face.

fights aren't static, an if nothing else u don't know what can or will happen if u get caught early on; you might not have the toughness or heart to carry on if u get caught early.

once again couture/rose fight, the first shot broke her job and damn near killed her; she went limp and barely got concious b4 she faceplanted.

in a fight, a real streetfight or brawl; you don't know when that situation will pop of, someone might be faster than you think, crazier or sneakier and may catch u early.

or in the case of bennet/noons, bennet was getting taken apart; he lands a big shot, that stops most people, it puts krazy horse on one knee right b4 he fires back w/a HUGE right hand that puts noons the trained/ tech/athletic and exp muay thai and boxing fighter DOWN and OUT.

an the crazy ish is i have seen similar ish happen; i had an ex gf, she went at it w/this chick who did kyokushin and boxing. She was literally dismantling my ex; but my ex never went down, cus she was a tough ass chick. The trained girl rocks my ex and makes her a step back; but the fires right back w/a huge overhand right, the trained girl knees buckle and she f*cking face plants.

anything can and will happen, u guaranteeing success shows a lack of respect for any person who may oppose you; an that can get u hurt or killed.

Only had one experience and was justified but I dropped a guy who was 210 and 22 when I was 18 and 155. I landed a jab cross right on the chin (he didnt know how to block) as he was throwing some wide ass right hook that kinda died half way through throwing once he ate my straight punches. He was down, cut from lip to nose, and couldent get up for 30 seconds without help from friends who attacked me after and brawl insued.

So I dunno..i found I was REMARKABLY calm, knowing that I was trained and prepared i was excited and felt great before we threw down, the guy really deserved it, infact I couldent stop smiling. So I dunno if this is always true? before this years before I had been cheap shotted while on my knees unlocking my bike and didnt know wtf to do and didnt throw back. I just told the guy to fuck off. At that untrained point in my life I was sure I could handle myself if something came up (i was like 12).

I really believe theres a huge difference between training and not training because of the techniques themselves but the experience takeing shots and calmness that comes with knowledge. I honestly felt like a smiley fedor wanderlei when before I was like woah wtf I dont kno this.

Search street fights on youtube or something, you will notice its total crap. U throw 3 times harder since u rotate ur feet and get ur hips into punches. You know defence..most guys throw these flailing shots that never land or simply dont hurt if they do land.

 

[goosebumps88*]

Anyone who trains and then goes out trying to start fights on the street will not last long and will never be a "martial artist". I'm not sure where you people are living, but you should never be in situations where you are fighting people in the streets every week. Most random altercations are caused by dumbasses who WATCH something and think they can do it, and in these situations they usually get handled pretty badly. You have a good point, but I feel 90-100% confident in my ability to handle this type of douchebag.

My little brother goes to school with a kid like this and I think its horrible. Kid trains and picks fights with EVERYONE insulting them in all kinds of ways..my example above was a self defense situation and I never go looking for a fight because its immoral and ya like the threadstarter said u could lose..but I think the chances of losing have more to do with the unknown like u could fight another guy who trains too and longer or something. Or maybe lucky shot lands and no mouth gaurd.

I dunno..god I hate that sort of thing.

 

[mikasd]

I like seeing when the untrained guy prevails over the trained one.

 

[wheelkick]

sorry but i train twice a day and il be damned if i lose to a guy who doesnt train

Baby you have a lot to learn. It is precisely the non-trained who pose the most dangerous and unorthodox threat.

 

[aries]

Yeah I've met people like these. They are also they same guys who think they can handle all comers in sparring although they have never sparred a round. Then they realise after actually having a proper match, although they thought they were the bees knees cos they looked good in sparring, they aren't actually all that.

So yeah just training doesn't mean that much, then at the next level just sparring doesn't mean that much but if you've actually had competitive fights it certainly gives you a pretty good appreciation of what it might be like in a street fight.

You train long enough and spar often enough and have a few fights and you'll have come up against all sorts of opponents. You'll have experienced the large athletic noob who surprises you with his power and aggression despite lacking skills and you'll always have come across the speedy little whippet who seems to have incredible natural reflexes and great gas.

What it's taught me is to have respect for everyone because you never know a persons ability. I respect the large strong guys because I realise what an advantage they have over me in terms of strength, size, power and reach. And I respect the little guys who have good speed and reactions. But it's also shown me that against nearly every untrained guy who comes into the gym I can handle them fairly comprehensibly.

It also has shown me that against more than one opponent even if they are well below me in ability they have suddenly gained a massive advantage which can easily neutralise any training advantage I have or more likely put the odds in their favour.

Against a knife, which I've never trained live, I can imagine one single body punch that connects even lightly when sparring would mean that even an untrained person is a big danger to me.

And what that tells me is that against most opponents on the street who are untrained and unarmed I am fairly confident I am going to handle them. It's the time I run into someone who has trained or that has a weapon that worries me.

I've been in a few self-defence situations and my training has stood me in good stead as I've not been injured yet. Oh and I think the biggest advantages that a trained person has is a defence and conditioning. Most untrained opponents have no gas and no defence. They are the boring unglamourous things that we as fighters have to do that normal joes can't be bothered too.

I think there is quite a difference between someone who just trains and someone who trains to fight.

 

[Cosmickungfu]

Principle based systems are superior to technique based systems. I think conditioning
the body to 'take a hit' is a complete waste of time. Simply because... violence is so unpredictable.I can almost guarantee that the area of your body you chose to condition' will NOT be the area attacked in a real situation. More importantly there are over 70 anatomical areas of the human body that provide some 200 SPECIFIC targets that cannot be 'conditioned'. As you can see... it's very easy to injure the human body just by knowing a small numbers of these 200 options. You can't condition the body for real violence. Don't be impressed with parlor tricks. To the guy putting a sharp object in his eye... offer to do it for him (just be prepared to stab him in the eye). For the guy bending the spear with his neck... step behind him and shin kick him to the groin, then watch how easily the spear pierces his throat! The guy having four others punch him to the neck (I'm not even going to address the fact that all the punches simply cancel each other out)... just have ONE guy punch him to the kidney, then strike his windpipe with a forearm. Then the other three can call the paramedics. For the guy sitting cross-legged and having everyone attempt to push him over... take your fingers and dig them straight up under his chin and watch him topple over. The point is this: the human body can be trained to handle trauma to a specific area under CONTROLLED conditions. This has nothing to do with creating injuries. Take away the controls... and chaos reigns. That's why attempting to control the uncontrollable is a very poor use of your time.he good thing about proper targeting is that you get injuries REGARDLESS of the other guy's size, strength or speed.

ever run across people who think cus they train some, casually or recreationally, that all of a sudden they feel as if they can take any untrained guy in a streetfight or self defense situation.

training as i think of it, provides you w/tools to defend yourself because it doesn't limit you to one avenue when being attacked or being involved in a self defense situation; it doesnt guarantee you a win just gives you an increased chance to do well because you have more options to choose from when acting or reacting to things.

have u ever tried to explained this to anyone; especially people who just have been doing so for a few months, an feel that because i have trained to box, do judo, bjj, kickboxing, muay thai, karate, sambo, wrestling for a few months or for years on and off. THat u are not necessarily gonna beatup or walk through any and everyone you face on the street, the situation is to dynamic for you to think that this skillset guarantees you anything.