training doesn't guarantee success

Discussion in 'Weapons and Tactics' started by devante, Jun 24, 2008.

  1. devante

    devante Silver Belt

    Joined:
    May 29, 2005
    Messages:
    12,712
    Likes Received:
    489
    Location:
    satx
    ever run across people who think cus they train some, casually or recreationally, that all of a sudden they feel as if they can take any untrained guy in a streetfight or self defense situation.

    training as i think of it, provides you w/tools to defend yourself because it doesn't limit you to one avenue when being attacked or being involved in a self defense situation; it doesnt guarantee you a win just gives you an increased chance to do well because you have more options to choose from when acting or reacting to things.

    have u ever tried to explained this to anyone; especially people who just have been doing so for a few months, an feel that because i have trained to box, do judo, bjj, kickboxing, muay thai, karate, sambo, wrestling for a few months or for years on and off. THat u are not necessarily gonna beatup or walk through any and everyone you face on the street, the situation is to dynamic for you to think that this skillset guarantees you anything.
     
  2. dvermillion15

    dvermillion15 Purple Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2007
    Messages:
    1,690
    Likes Received:
    0
    Exactly. Although technique is the most important, you aren't gonna beat up a 300 lb man beast if you are a third of his weight and not even a third of how strong he is. Well maybe, but not likely.
     
  3. devante

    devante Silver Belt

    Joined:
    May 29, 2005
    Messages:
    12,712
    Likes Received:
    489
    Location:
    satx
    not just that, but u have to actually be skilled in a discipline, just training won't be enough for you to win; unless your just that good your ability to stay calm, recover and absorb abuse will come into play.

    i know people who box or do bjj or whatever and while they are trained, they aren't all that good; nor are they so familiar w/the discipline that i would guarantee they win.

    sure your fav mma fighter, boxer, judoka, etc can tool a guy on the street; he has conditioned himself through training sparring and developed his skills through such things.

    most of us don't have that much time, ability or dedication/discipline to become that good in any art; an that isn't taking into account how much your skill will fall off when u try to execute them in a non static environment w/an aggressive opp who isn't playing by any sort of rules.
     
  4. devante

    devante Silver Belt

    Joined:
    May 29, 2005
    Messages:
    12,712
    Likes Received:
    489
    Location:
    satx
    also as has been shown in numerous mma, which is not streetfighting; but a good example of how when facing a larger or more athletic opp or just a hard hitting tough opp.

    sapp v nog- a bjj virtuoso and one of the best mma boxers in the sport, got beat the f*ck up and mauled by an unskilled big strong athletic heavyweight.

    royce v kimo- royce was roughed up and worn out by a big strong UNSKILLED, tough guy

    noons v bennet-krazy horse while not untrained, is lightyears behind noons in regards to tech/conditioning and exp; but was able to beat him using athletic ability,toughness and power.

    now all these guys are pros and have some level of skill; but when u make all things equal the disparity of skill is no more between us (trained guys) and the untrained guys u may fight. I know guys who are as big strong and athletic as sapp or kimo; hell i know guys more athletic explosive tough and hard hitting than bennet.

    I don't know many guys w/better standup, ground skills, chins or phys ability than noons, noguiera or gracie.

    which means that the majority of us, esp those that don't train intensively, are at a sever disadvantage even w/our training.
     
  5. U.S. Soldier

    U.S. Soldier Red Belt

    Joined:
    May 18, 2005
    Messages:
    8,007
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    Riverside CA. USA
    But you can still kick ass. I dont care who it is, if you train and the guy your taking on doesnt train, 100% you kick his ass.
     
  6. devante

    devante Silver Belt

    Joined:
    May 29, 2005
    Messages:
    12,712
    Likes Received:
    489
    Location:
    satx
    i dont underestimate anyone and i don't appreciate anyone who makes an assumption that they can or will walk through anyone they may face.

    fights aren't static, an if nothing else u don't know what can or will happen if u get caught early on; you might not have the toughness or heart to carry on if u get caught early.

    once again couture/rose fight, the first shot broke her job and damn near killed her; she went limp and barely got concious b4 she faceplanted.

    in a fight, a real streetfight or brawl; you don't know when that situation will pop of, someone might be faster than you think, crazier or sneakier and may catch u early.

    or in the case of bennet/noons, bennet was getting taken apart; he lands a big shot, that stops most people, it puts krazy horse on one knee right b4 he fires back w/a HUGE right hand that puts noons the trained/ tech/athletic and exp muay thai and boxing fighter DOWN and OUT.

    an the crazy ish is i have seen similar ish happen; i had an ex gf, she went at it w/this chick who did kyokushin and boxing. She was literally dismantling my ex; but my ex never went down, cus she was a tough ass chick. The trained girl rocks my ex and makes her a step back; but the fires right back w/a huge overhand right, the trained girl knees buckle and she f*cking face plants.

    anything can and will happen, u guaranteeing success shows a lack of respect for any person who may oppose you; an that can get u hurt or killed.
     
  7. wheelkick

    wheelkick Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2008
    Messages:
    698
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Southern Il
    You make good points. We are all one punch kick or slam away from defeat regardless of our training. All things considered IMO training is the second best thing you can do. The first is employing a firearm.
     
  8. devante

    devante Silver Belt

    Joined:
    May 29, 2005
    Messages:
    12,712
    Likes Received:
    489
    Location:
    satx
    thx for understanding the point i was trying to make
     
  9. Jiu-Jitsu Cop

    Jiu-Jitsu Cop Green Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2006
    Messages:
    1,418
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    In Socal.
    I try to explain to people all of the time that training does not make you invincable but only increases your chance of survival. Not all people understand this. We are all just one punch away from losing at anytime. This does not mean that we can not fight if we lose.

    If someone tells me they have never lost a fight then I tell them that either they have not been in enough fights or why don't they hold the world title?
     
  10. Machete Juarez

    Machete Juarez Blue Belt Professional Fighter

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2008
    Messages:
    938
    Likes Received:
    7
    Location:
    Sunspear
    in my experience, it is very common for guys who believe they have trained for a while (about 3 months) to think they are the ultimate bad ass. some are so eager to test out their new "skills" that they rush into competitive fights not listening to their instructors, only to get their asses personally handed to them, crushing their overinflated egos. the stubborn ones keep coming back, and become martial artists eventually.

    anyone can claim to be a martial artist these days. a few trial sessions, a few instructional videos, a few action movies, some punching and kicking on a heavy bag, and you can kick the crap out of the next guy on the street. right...
     
  11. younggunz

    younggunz working it on out

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2006
    Messages:
    5,166
    Likes Received:
    0
    honestly the only guaranteed way not to lose a fight is not to fight..

    Training is always better than not training..
    Self defense becomes reflexive, and can be used regardless of most physical disadvantages..but nothing is certain..
     
  12. AkronZip

    AkronZip Banned Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2008
    Messages:
    336
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Home of LeBron James (And DEVO!)
    Note to self: Flying Armbar over concrete, bad idea
     
  13. Jaydoogan

    Jaydoogan Guest

    it doesn't hurt to train , it can only help the persons chance ,
    the answer to this would be that it depends on the person.
     
  14. devante

    devante Silver Belt

    Joined:
    May 29, 2005
    Messages:
    12,712
    Likes Received:
    489
    Location:
    satx
    training helps; but don't GUARANTEE sh*T
     
  15. RG45

    RG45 Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2007
    Messages:
    688
    Likes Received:
    1
    Anyone who trains and then goes out trying to start fights on the street will not last long and will never be a "martial artist". I'm not sure where you people are living, but you should never be in situations where you are fighting people in the streets every week. Most random altercations are caused by dumbasses who WATCH something and think they can do it, and in these situations they usually get handled pretty badly. You have a good point, but I feel 90-100% confident in my ability to handle this type of douchebag.
     
  16. nw kor-am

    nw kor-am Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2008
    Messages:
    544
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Idaho
    absolutely, on the other hand there are some people who are "prodigies", just gifted in whatever skills it might be whithout formal training.
     
  17. WorldFour

    WorldFour Banned Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2008
    Messages:
    494
    Likes Received:
    1
    Nothing is guaranteed in life, this post doesn't really have a real point to it.
     
  18. devante

    devante Silver Belt

    Joined:
    May 29, 2005
    Messages:
    12,712
    Likes Received:
    489
    Location:
    satx
    the point is some people feel because they train that they are the sh*t or feel as if they are invincible and that just isnt the case; some people in regards to training say, if u do this u will be able to handle yourself in the street and that is not the case.

    its just a list/group of options u have in how to handle a prob/etc; but it doesn't guarantee u will be able to resolve it, esp w/out being harmed
     
  19. Byron Pechorin

    Byron Pechorin Top Level Human

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2007
    Messages:
    14,293
    Likes Received:
    1,815
    Location:
    Upper Floor
    That's why sparring is so important.
     
  20. fightingrabbit

    fightingrabbit Banned Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2006
    Messages:
    13,204
    Likes Received:
    3,863
    eh thats the reality of a fight man. everyone should know this information.

    one day some nobody is going to randomly swing and knock Fedor on his ass, and we're all going to be trippin. but hey i wouldnt be surprised.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.