Training Bjj as a Judo Guy

[Balto]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say what's happening to this guy is an anomaly. Every judoka or wrestler I know thinks bjj is great. Smart people cross train. In my judo gym, which has produced multiple national champions, we don't use "pins" for newaza. It's gi bjj.





In what kind of match? A Judo match? A wrestling match? MMA? no, no, and no.

Yes, cross training is the right idea. But you probably only train with progressive minded people, which although a good thing, isn't how all people think. There are still a lot of traditionally minded people out there.

The match I'm talking about is what the average person would consider to be the purest cross styles match. That basically equates to early MMA. Both people can use whatever techniques they want, there aren't any time limits, and they just fight until one submits or is otherwise rendered incapable of continuing.

I'm aware that there is a lot more to martial arts than just those kind of matches, but that raw early MMA type of match up is what the average person intuitively thinks of as a style match up. And although there have been exceptions, BJJ has demonstrated that it will win those types of match ups the majority of the time against the traditional practitioners of other arts.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

maybe you should stop trolling, "bjj rage".

all grappling is good grappling, and great grapplers cross train.

im not trolling, im stating facts....

and I agee, all grappling is good, but actual judo has very very little focus on neweza, and the way the IJF is going, in a few years, I dont think we will be able to call judo a grappling style anymore...

 

[deev]

I like training BJJ now and again to sharpen up my ne waza, its fun. Plus you get to ragdoll some BJJ folk when they do what they call stand up

 

[Hagai Jime]

I wanna go to bjj so bad! I go to a comp and newaza focused school though so I'm sure it wouldn't be a problem at all. We have bjj players that come tk our classes and there's no problem. There are always so many different people coming to class that it's just like any other training partner. You should look into a judo school with heavy newaza focus if you don't end up with bjj. Your current school sounds too uptight.

 

[Rod1]

who has the lvl of master and technique a mifume?

A lot of his students, and students of his students.

or by dynamic resistance and technology (i.e films) they study and teach in just as if not more of an effective manner/technique

And what happens (for example in BJJ) when everyone is uploading videos? how can you tell what's good and wrong unless you already know what's good?

In the end the videos you are going to see for perfect technique are Kodokan approved by a bunch of traditionalist japanese that perfected technique over the course of many many years. That's another reason why the japanese still have one of the most technical judo, even if they don't win all competitions.

Again, winning competition judo = level of judo technique, its simply playing by the rules. I agree that we have many tools that were not present in other days.

try to come up with a better analogy because this is a horrilble example

Actually you just made it better, by saying that "technology does it for me" because that's what happening in statistics and mathematics, so many software packages made by people that actually understand statistics and mathematics have made newer generation lazier about knowing the principles of mathematics and statistics.

Ask any PhD that uses statistics packages what does "degrees of liberty" actually are and they will not know, doesn't means they can't use them.

 

[Rod1]

im not trolling, im stating facts....

and I agee, all grappling is good, but actual judo has very very little focus on neweza, and the way the IJF is going, in a few years, I dont think we will be able to call judo a grappling style anymore...

Explain please.

Are you talking about Royce who lost the moment he met another grappler worth its salt (Yoshida) or Rickson who has been stated many many many times that he cross-trained into wrestling.

The newer generations of BJJ frankly suck at 1v1 because they take many many things that the Gracies didn't took for granted.

And lol about judo not being called grappling anymore, when there is NO attacks whatsoever to the legs, not even trips, no guard allowed and no submissions, then it will be basically greco and i think Jon Jones, Matt Lindland and Randy Couture have shown that greco is still grappling.

 

[redaxe]

Rod1 GTFO plz

 

[nefti]

A lot of his students, and students of his students.

so they are revolutionaries that changed judo like mifume?

And what happens (for example in BJJ) when everyone is uploading videos? how can you tell what's good and wrong unless you already know what's good?

experience and your instructor, like how it should be

In the end the videos you are going to see for perfect technique are Kodokan approved by a bunch of traditionalist japanese that perfected technique over the course of many many years. That's another reason why the japanese still have one of the most technical judo, even if they don't win all competitions.

kodokan vidoes have more "perfect technique" than the videos put out by the National team of say, France or Korea? Doubt it.

 

[Rod1]

so they are revolutionaries that changed judo like mifume?

So you have to be Newton or Leibniz to understand differential calculus

experience and your instructor, like how it should be

What if your instructor is wrong? then by consequence you are wrong.

kodokan vidoes have more "perfect technique" than the videos put out by the National team of say, France or Korea? Doubt it.

Actually yes, because the national teams are training for competition, they all have adapted the techniques to suit them and they practice when tired, injured out of air etc.

National teams don't make technique demonstrative videos, if they do, they usually show their training procedures and they try to show as LITTLE as possible considering their rivals would have access to them.

 

[fourfif**]

I'm aware that there is a lot more to martial arts than just those kind of matches, but that raw early MMA type of match up is what the average person intuitively thinks of as a style match up. And although there have been exceptions, BJJ has demonstrated that it will win those types of match ups the majority of the time against the traditional practitioners of other arts.

If Yoshida would have gotten an invite, everyone would be doing judo now.

If Karelin had gotten an invite, even MORE people than already do would be wrestling now.

 

[Joose]

This sounds so strange to me. Sounds like both of you benefit from it though.

It does work very well. I When we were on the ground we'd roll for a few and whenever there would be a sub or odd postion they'd tell us how to get out of it or how to set it up depending on the situation. They loved coming in because they would get to work on their bottom game more. It helped me out because I got good at avoiding sweeps and just seeing sweeps being set up. Then in stand-up we'd share our knowledge with them, grips, foot sweeps, kuzushi etc. It is great and no one has ever bitched or tried to put down the others style. Everyone has been vey respectful.

 

[judogido]

I am a judo shodan. I'm now training BJJ and MMA.

My advice? Screw the traditional judo club and do BJJ. They have no right to decide what you do or don't train in. If you want to avoid any conflict: just don't mention you do BJJ - frankly it's none of their business.

Most of those who look down their nose at BJJ have never trained it before and have a poor understanding of it. You just smile quietly at their ignorance.... Same goes for those who bag judo - they just have no idea or at best - a vague idea.

I usually don't bother to listen to anyone without first-hand experience. And those that have given the other style a real genuine try would never belittle it - just appreciate it, even if they decided their training path lay elsewhere....

 

[killakoy]

You know... I'm sorry to say that there's closed minded people everywhere and it usually doesn't matter what rank they hold in their respective art. Unfortunately there are a lot of Judoka that tend to revert to the TMA attitude of my art is better than all other types mentality. This doesn't only apply to BJJ, but I've seen it for wrestling, too.

I've always been fortunate enough that the highest ranking Judoka where I'm from have always been for BJJ and wrestling. I can remember when an older shodan had told one of the students to stop pulling all this BJJ crap and the higher ranking sensei told him to "Pull his head outta his ass... it's the same thing." (I know it's not exactly... but you get the point.)

Back in the 90's an 8th degree Kodokan instructor came to the island for a seminar... he brought Rickson Gracie bandannas as omiyage. That should say everything.

 

[bnosam]

My BJJ instructor is a brown belt in BJJ and a blackbelt in judo

 

[killakoy]

Ok, I am confused. you can crouch but not too much otherwise you are penalised.

In Judo, you're penalized for an excessively defensive posture if taken for a prolonged time. The reasoning is that you cannot form a comprehensive attack from this position and are simply stalling.

This is weird for me because in BJJ, once you get your BB, this is it. You are the man, no more beating up.

But in your case, being a shodan means you belong to your club and you are not free to do whatever you feel like doing.

A good rule of thumb, is that you aren't a Judo sensei until at least 3rd degree BB. A shodan is really similar to a BJJ blue belt... it signifies that you know the basics. (Although in my experience, the U.S. ikkyu - brown belt is pretty close to a Japan shodan.)

 

[neandtachiwaza]

In Judo, you're penalized for an excessively defensive posture if taken for a prolonged time. The reasoning is that you cannot form a comprehensive attack from this position and are simply stalling.



A good rule of thumb, is that you aren't a Judo sensei until at least 3rd degree BB. A shodan is really similar to a BJJ blue belt... it signifies that you know the basics. (Although in my experience, the U.S. ikkyu - brown belt is pretty close to a Japan shodan.)

Agreed. Having a Shodan in Judo is not "master" status. It just signifies that I have mastered the basics.

 

[pittfrog]

While I generally agree about which ranks qualify as truly expert in Judo, the common exception would be competitive players. Many higher level competitive players do not pay attention to rank above shodan, as it simply doesn't matter for competitive purposes. That said, some of those players can be excellent teachers.

 

[lechien]

Agreed. Having a Shodan in Judo is not "master" status. It just signifies that I have mastered the basics.

Oh ok. then in that case, you should listen to your master.

 

[fourfif**]

My BJJ instructor is a brown belt in BJJ and a blackbelt in judo

that is pretty dope right there.

you know takedowns are not going to be getting short shrift in your gym....

 

[neandtachiwaza]

Oh ok. then in that case, you should listen to your master.

My Master has only said that training in two arts is not an easy thing to do and that one should get their Judo Blackbelt before doing so, which I have done. Nowhere has anyone ever told me not to train BJJ.