Training Bjj as a Judo Guy

[lechien]

I posted here to get an idea of what others have gone through when training two martial arts, and I agree with you about what you say about not caring what other people say about me. However, I also think respect for what others in my club would think about me training in another martial art, is also something I should consider as a Shodan. I'm trying to approach this from all possible angles, and that is why I posted this.

This is weird for me because in BJJ, once you get your BB, this is it. You are the man, no more beating up.

You can show late for warm up, talk with some BB while others do the techniques of the day.

You can awards belts to other people, you do not line with the rest of the belts. You stand in the front of class.

But in your case, being a shodan means you belong to your club and you are not free to do whatever you feel like doing.

 

[Chalito]

Train BJJ if you want to work your ground game. If the politics of your Judo background are going to give you trouble, it's seems like you are going to have to ask yourself if it's worth it.

 

[neandtachiwaza]

Train BJJ if you want to work your ground game. If the politics of your Judo background are going to give you trouble, it's seems like you are going to have to ask yourself if it's worth it.

This is exactly what I am attempting to do. I really want to improve my ground game, and what my logic was that by getting my Judo Black Belt, I would then be able to more effectively manage my cross training in BJJ by having a decent standup base, unlike so many who quit as white belts or other lower grades and don't get a solid base for throwing and pinning.

 

[Chalito]

Just train then. I feel like it's your time and money that you are going to spend. You are the only one who has the right to make that decision. If you feel like BJJ is something that would help you then do it. No one has the right to tell you what to do or how to feel.

 

[akdms]

Ok, I am confused. you can crouch but not too much otherwise you are penalised. why the need to have the rule to penalise if any good judoka cannot be stop by such action.

Oh yes, your coach sounds like really insecure and reminds me of someone.

This is my understanding... Crouching is one thing. But at a certain point your center becomes so slow that judo throws become almost impossible. Once your knees get parallel to the floor even sacrifice throws like yoko tome nage or hikkomi gaeshi become difficult, especially if you are blocking your hips with your elbows. At that point, you're stalling (since you can't shoot for leg takedowns) and get penalized.

 

[Joose]

We have Bjj guys come to class on a fairly regular basis, they wear their bjj belts and gi's and we only stipulate that there shall be no guard pulling. Every body is cool with it. We are a very non-traditional club though. The good thing is it works out well because when we do tachi waza we share our knowledge with them and when we do newaza they share their info with us.

 

[neandtachiwaza]

We have Bjj guys come to class on a fairly regular basis, they wear their bjj belts and gi's and we only stipulate that there shall be no guard pulling. Every body is cool with it. We are a very non-traditional club though. The good thing is it works out well because when we do tachi waza we share our knowledge with them and when we do newaza they share their info with us.

This sounds so strange to me. Sounds like both of you benefit from it though.

 

[Rod1]

Ok, I am confused. you can crouch but not too much otherwise you are penalised. why the need to have the rule to penalise if any good judoka cannot be stop by such action.

You are penalized when you are avoiding combat, if crouching seems to be going somewhere and part of a strategy, it should not be penalized, if crouching is there with arms extended or blocking a hip and only there to avoid being thrown its penalized.

Crouching can be countered with good footwork and better grip fighting, but it can hard to throw someone who is too defensive and only blocking attacks. It hard to explain though.

Basically if your intention is not to attack, it will show and it will penalized.

Oh yes, your coach sounds like really insecure and reminds me of someone

On the other hand i think he is too much secure of his own game and that's the problem, he thinks his game its the norm for judo. But in my experience judokas don't have that level of proficiency in the ground.

 

[Rod1]

Rod1,
Judo in korea has little to no katas at all. Has this hurt the quality of judo comming out of korea?

So if one wins the world championship and the olympic he has the level of mastery and technique than Kyuzo Mifune?

Katas show perfect technique, by forcing people to learn perfect technique, they can teach perfect technique, and they also learn the principles and why the technique is done in a certain way, from there, they can twist, bend, stir and shake a technique to fit their own particular game, but they know the basics and when they get to teach, they will teach the perfect technique.

When one learns a technique and forgets about the base technique, it will teach the deformed version that suits him, even if it doesn't suit their students who will be forced to twist and bend theirs, degenerating techniques.

I can do competitive versions of most judo techniques, but i still have troubles with a lot of kata techniques because i was raised in competitive judo, that's why i can't teach judo. I could train someone to win at judo but it wouldn't be judo.

If i were to build an analogy, it would be like teaching a mathematical formula, but not teaching the principles of it of where does it comes from. Sure you can have mathematicians that don't know where to integration comes from and why its done the way it is, but they would suck as teachers and would never develop mathematics further.

 

[Rod1]

I posted here to get an idea of what others have gone through when training two martial arts, and I agree with you about what you say about not caring what other people say about me. However, I also think respect for what others in my club would think about me training in another martial art, is also something I should consider as a Shodan. I'm trying to approach this from all possible angles, and that is why I posted this.

 

[nefti]

So if one wins the world championship and the olympic he has the level of mastery and technique than Kyuzo Mifune?

who has the lvl of master and technique a mifume?

Katas show perfect technique, by forcing people to learn perfect technique, they can teach perfect technique, and they also learn the principles and why the technique is done in a certain way, from there, they can twist, bend, stir and shake a technique to fit their own particular game, but they know the basics and when they get to teach, they will teach the perfect technique.

or by dynamic resistance and technology (i.e films) they study and teach in just as if not more of an effective manner/technique

If i were to build an analogy, it would be like teaching a mathematical formula, but not teaching the principles of it of where does it comes from. Sure you can have mathematicians that don't know where to integration comes from and why its done the way it is, but they would suck as teachers and would never develop mathematics further.

try to come up with a better analogy because this is a horrilble example

 

[YeahBee]

try to come up with a better analogy because this is a horrilble example

I can cook pretty well for myself and others,, food that taste good. I have a grasp about several different techniques and methods

but don't ask me to cook a boiullabaise or work in a fine dining kitchen, my techniques or dishes wouldn't hold up

Katas are like culinary school, everybody is taught the same techniques so that they can work all kind of different jobs, later when they are big names they may do things their own way

Katas are a way of preserving neutral techniques, the theory behind them.

 

[neandtachiwaza]

 

[BJJ_Rage]

if you want your ground game to become better, dont listen to your mates and just practice bjj, if you dont care that much stay where you are.

 

[Slowlearner]

In my gym, we have both judo and bjj. Judo is taught by a second degree BB registered with Kodokan and BJJ is taught by a Brazilian BB. Students learn both and adopt "what works" from both. I think judo-bjj cross train is the next in the evolutionary step. After all, both share the same beginning...

 

[fourfif**]

really the most effective for 1 on 1 style vs style or against a single untrained opponent.

meh. In a one on one fight against an untrained opponent I'd take wrestling, judo, then bjj, in that order.

 

[fourfif**]

The root cause of it gets down to more than just BJJ versus Judo. It's BJJ versus every other art.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say what's happening to this guy is an anomaly. Every judoka or wrestler I know thinks bjj is great. Smart people cross train. In my judo gym, which has produced multiple national champions, we don't use "pins" for newaza. It's gi bjj.

It's controversial to say it, but I think it's clear (whether people will openly admit it or not they tend to know it deep down) that BJJ fares particularly well against almost every other established style in a match.

In what kind of match? A Judo match? A wrestling match? MMA? no, no, and no.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

meh. In a one on one fight against an untrained opponent I'd take wrestling, judo, then bjj, in that order.

you can pick whatever you want, its been prove that 1 vs 1 style vs style, bjj prevales... wheter you like it or not.

 

[Steeltwo]

I read the first few posts, so i'm not sure what is on page 2-5.

I'm known as Judo guy at the Jiu Jitsu school, and the newaza guy at the judo school.

Cross training honestly is a must. The main reason i've seen so far is because of what happens in judo once you get a few months in of bjj.

After a few weeks of bjj, you'll notice that in judo, you'll get more subs on the ground. Which obviously should happen considering the extra training.

But what happens then is all +'s for judo. The judo players you spar against will know that if they hit the canvas with you, odds are they're going to get choked or arm barred. So they will resist going to the ground, and resist ALOT.
Which in turn, makes them really really easy to throw since they are so focused on not going to the ground.

After a few months at bjj, i'd say I get 3x the ippons I did prior. And it's not because my judo was any better.

 

[fourfif**]

you can pick whatever you want, its been prove that 1 vs 1 style vs style, bjj prevales... wheter you like it or not.

In what kind of match? A Judo match? A wrestling match? MMA? no, no, and no.

maybe you should stop trolling, "bjj rage".

all grappling is good grappling, and great grapplers cross train.