Tony vs Khabib will determine the best LW ever, BUT...

[Sansnom]

Say for example that Tony somehow beats Khabib. The only way I see him winning is by catching him in a sub or by Khabib gassing and Tony picking him apart really late.

Anyway, so Tony wins. He will be the consensus all time LW GOAT. It’s hard to argue that. Then in his next fight he defends the LW title. But what if he gets KOed by someone like Gaethje or even *gasp* Conor in 1 round? And then following that loss he goes on a 2-3 fight losing skid and is deemed washed up.

Will he still be the LW GOAT? Or will he be looked at like BJ Penn? We have short term memory as fans. I use Tony as an example because it’s very possible this happens. He is on the wrong side of his 30s, he gets caught quite a bit in his fights, and his style may not exactly hold up anymore. Not to mention the wars he has been in and the mileage he has.

I don’t see this happening to Khabib because I don’t see him fighting much longer. If he beats Tony, he will probably defend against Gaethje or Conor, and if wins that he will probably look to fight GSP or retire.

Who the fuck thinks that far ahead?

Thread is retarded af.

 

[JKS]

Say for example that Tony somehow beats Khabib. The only way I see him winning is by catching him in a sub or by Khabib gassing and Tony picking him apart really late.

Anyway, so Tony wins. He will be the consensus all time LW GOAT. It’s hard to argue that. Then in his next fight he defends the LW title. But what if he gets KOed by someone like Gaethje or even *gasp* Conor in 1 round? And then following that loss he goes on a 2-3 fight losing skid and is deemed washed up.

Will he still be the LW GOAT? Or will he be looked at like BJ Penn? We have short term memory as fans. I use Tony as an example because it’s very possible this happens. He is on the wrong side of his 30s, he gets caught quite a bit in his fights, and his style may not exactly hold up anymore. Not to mention the wars he has been in and the mileage he has.

I don’t see this happening to Khabib because I don’t see him fighting much longer. If he beats Tony, he will probably defend against Gaethje or Conor, and if wins that he will probably look to fight GSP or retire.

I am a firm believer that to establish one as goat.....he has to be in a position where if he loses it doesn't change that. Anderson Silva and Fedor lost, but no one questions their status as divisional goats. Same is GSP lost at WW.

So if Ferguson does lose afterwards we really can't have him as goat that early. But if Tony were to beat Khabib, then Gaethje and Conor but loses to another guy after that? I would still say he's is the LW goat cause he established himself as such. The similar case we have now is with Max Holloway who established himself as the FW goat (sort of) and then lost to Volk. I felt that Max did enough beating the comp he did, finished Aldo twice and beat Edgar, Ortega to maintain that position even after a loss. Tony and Max are very similar in that way.

 

[2EZ]

Your opinion. Which you are entitled to but holds absolutely no more weight than mine or others who say Tony would maul Conor, Justin, or Dustin.

highly doubt that since a non name unrank fighter had him on rolla blades but ok i guess

 

[Ufcmaster]

RDA has more top ranked LW wins than Conor so why is Conor considered such a greater win, exactly? Context-wise, they're about the same.

Khabib best win is either RDA or Poirier.
And the RDA Khabib fought is arguably better then the one Tony fought. RDA was on 5 fight winstreak and had beaten Cowboy the fight before and went on another 5 fight winstreak after his loss to Khabib and captured the belt with a year after that loss. That was prime RDA.
Tony had RDA after a standing TKO loss against Eddie.

 

[VinceArch]

how about refute my point buddy boi

Nah, just reread my comment you quoted.

 

[VinceArch]

Pettis, Lee and Cowboy just don't do it for me and for alot of other people too.
Dustin > Cowboy
Al > Lee
Conor > Pettis

Well that's a matter of opinion then and I can't help you out.

 

[Ufcmaster]

Well that's a matter of opinion then and I can't help you out.

Oke let's rearrange the order.
Dustin > Pettis. Dustin beat Pettis
Al > Lee. Al beat Lee twice.

Let's see if Cowboy beats Conrad. I wouldn't mind if he did because then he can't mess up the LW title picture anymore

 

[mkess101]

highly doubt that since a non name unrank fighter had him on rolla blades but ok i guess

Again your opinion. He finished that guy shortly thereafter and has won 12 in a row with 9 finishes. You don't have to like it but those are just facts. I'm not making that up-it's what he's done over the last 8 years.

 

[JKS]

BJ Penn is a legend because of the wars he has been in, his pioneer in fighting at whatever the fuck weight class, and for his dominance (all beit pretty short) at LW.

While it’s easy to look back now and say BJ Penn might have been overrated (his big wins were Florian, Sanchez, Joe Daddy, being competitive vs GSP in the first fight, and beating Hughes- not that bad of a resume), there is no one else until recently aside from Tony/Khabib that you can say is the LW GOAT.

I would have Ben Henderson in that position as the best LW ever right up until he lost to Pettis. Certainly ahead of Penn at the time he was defending his belt in the UFC. At his peak he was 19-2, WEC champ and UFC champ with 3 title defenses...the resume at the time was Edgar 2x, Diaz, Melendez, Cowboy 2x, and solid wins over Miller, Guida, and Varner. Ben Henderson was the best LW up until 2014.

After Ben there were a few top LW's like RDA, Alverez that showed promise but neither were able to find consistency at the top and just had too many L's.

 

[Jackonfire]

I am a firm believer that to establish one as goat.....he has to be in a position where if he loses it doesn't change that. Anderson Silva and Fedor lost, but no one questions their status as divisional goats. Same is GSP lost at WW.

So if Ferguson does lose afterwards we really can't have him as goat that early. But if Tony were to beat Khabib, then Gaethje and Conor but loses to another guy after that? I would still say he's is the LW goat cause he established himself as such. The similar case we have now is with Max Holloway who established himself as the FW goat (sort of) and then lost to Volk. I felt that Max did enough beating the comp he did, finished Aldo twice and beat Edgar, Ortega to maintain that position even after a loss. Tony and Max are very similar in that way.

Even Max will tell you he isn't the GOAT. He said himself he didn't have the numbers. As champ, he beat Aldo 2x, Ortega and Edgar while losing to Poirier and Volk.

Win streaks are cool and all, but having a win streak as a champ is what sets the GOATs apart from the rest. Aldo had 10 successful defenses before losing to Conor.

 

[JKS]

Even Max will tell you he isn't the GOAT. He said himself he didn't have the numbers. As champ, he beat Aldo 2x, Ortega and Edgar while losing to Poirier and Volk.

Win streaks are cool and all, but having a win streak as a champ is what sets the GOATs apart from the rest. Aldo had 10 successful defenses before losing to Conor.

That's why I got that *sort of* in there. Half the media and fans had him as the goat and other felt he wasn't quite there yet.

 

[fedoriswar37]

When you beat them matters more then how you beat them. Atleast in my humble opinion.

Disageee. How you beat them is very important . By that logic khabibs win of Conor is no good. Conor has 1 win at lw. Was on a huge layoff and hadn't won a fight in years.

 

[cmw43]

"He will be the consensus all time LW GOAT."

There will be no such consensus until Tony has had more than one truly great result on his record.

One key difference is that Khabib has beaten everybody and made it look easy, whereas Ferguson has beaten a lot of great fighters through surviving rough spots.

Tony's taken some damage but he's also brutalised everyone, he fights a dangerous style and destroys guys.

 

[chinarice]

Khabib best win is either RDA or Poirier.
And the RDA Khabib fought is arguably better then the one Tony fought. RDA was on 5 fight winstreak and had beaten Cowboy the fight before and went on another 5 fight winstreak after his loss to Khabib and captured the belt with a year after that loss. That was prime RDA.
Tony had RDA after a standing TKO loss against Eddie.

Tony fought a RDA who had accumulated far better wins than the one that was fighting Khabib.

 

[cmw43]

Beating a champ, beating a former champ relatively close to his title-reign, beating a future champ on his way up. Those are great results. Only the Dos Anjos-win is great, the sort of win that one can use in an argument over GOAT-status. Thomson and Pettis were spent forces once they faced Tony.

Pettis is always dangerous. He got unlocky against Poirier injuring his rib. Before Tony he sub'd Chiesa and after Tony he flatlined Wonderboy.

Cowboy was ranked 4th coming off a 3 match run beating Perry and Ragin Al (who Khabib beat for the belt) and Tony destroyed him.

An in form Kevin Lee is tough for anyone he was on a 5 fight streak when he lost to Tony, and after a skid now seems to have got back to looking great again.

You can pick apart Khabibs wins pretty easily if you wanted.

• Michael Johnson - (3-7) in his last 10 dropped a weightclass, basically a can
• Barboza - loses to any pressure grappler, tailor made for Khabib, (1-4) since the Khabib fight
• Ragin' Al - #11 fought Khabib for the vacant belt and was only prepared for 3 rounds but put in 5. His only win in the previous 3 years was a decision over Diego. (1-3 since the Khabib fight)
• McGregor - had been out of the game for several years getting rusty and spent most of that time focused on boxing, Khabib was a heavy favourite based on his grappling.
• Poirier - great win, he was on a good run of victories but looked like a deer in the headlight the whole time and didn't have the skills to compete with Khabib, a truly great win.

 

[Jpenwell14]

Say for example that Tony somehow beats Khabib. The only way I see him winning is by catching him in a sub or by Khabib gassing and Tony picking him apart really late.

Anyway, so Tony wins. He will be the consensus all time LW GOAT. It’s hard to argue that. Then in his next fight he defends the LW title. But what if he gets KOed by someone like Gaethje or even *gasp* Conor in 1 round? And then following that loss he goes on a 2-3 fight losing skid and is deemed washed up.

Will he still be the LW GOAT? Or will he be looked at like BJ Penn? We have short term memory as fans. I use Tony as an example because it’s very possible this happens. He is on the wrong side of his 30s, he gets caught quite a bit in his fights, and his style may not exactly hold up anymore. Not to mention the wars he has been in and the mileage he has.

I don’t see this happening to Khabib because I don’t see him fighting much longer. If he beats Tony, he will probably defend against Gaethje or Conor, and if wins that he will probably look to fight GSP or retire.

Here's what I think and i like tony:
It's going to take a small miracle for him to not to have to fight khabib at least twice: 28-0 is hard to ignore.

Between the two of them tony is the truly insane type of person that won't let one or two or five losses effect him. With that being said I highly doubt if he got tko'd by gaethje (which I think might be impossible), he wouldn't be back for more and he would probably fight 12 more people if that's what it took.

Khabib is a bit of a different case. He is driven by being the best in the world right now. If he lost to tony he might take some awkward losses before he got right again. But unlike tony he's almost guaranteed an immediate rematch or a mismatch against conor followed by two rematches with tony worst case scenario. If tony loses he should go to welterweight because they will always screw Tony over. He's sort of a liability in a sense. You never know what that guy will do and it could just snowball and escalate.

For khabib getting two back from tony would be essential in his mind. It's the type of person he is. His identity revolves around the running dialogue in his mind that his skillset and God given talent are the best tool that exists, only needing to be sharpened.

Why else do you think he wants so desperately to fight GSP, who pretty much the consensus is could come off the bench and jab his way to victory? Its because khabib believes he's the last test he has to pass to be all time goat.

I don't care one way or the other when it comes to khabib. I'm glad he beat conor and I think it will be impossible for anyone to say he was never really that good, even if he goes the way of fedor.

I think it's going to be really hard to watch his spirit break if he's hit tony for 15+ minutes with everything he's got and tony just keeps coming on stronger, if he starts to waiver.

Crazy people never believe they lose except for if they get beat by someone on their terms. That's Tony's strength.

People driven by ego if it's evident that they are going to lose, will do anything to just survive. Like khabib fighting off that deep guillotine that damn near put him out. He survived then he once again had to stop poirier. It's a double edged sword. When you lose it can refocus your efforts. Or it can crush everything you believe to be true.

Neither is particularly healthy but between the two one is probably a better survival mechanism.

So to answer your question directly, even if khabib wins and loses two rematches and a few other fights go ugly the way of fedor, it will be very hard not to put him in conversations like people did about fedor even after he lost. At his peak still probably the goat and tough to beat. He just lost his thunder.

 

[TheChosenOne]

Even Max will tell you he isn't the GOAT. He said himself he didn't have the numbers. As champ, he beat Aldo 2x, Ortega and Edgar while losing to Poirier and Volk.

Win streaks are cool and all, but having a win streak as a champ is what sets the GOATs apart from the rest. Aldo had 10 successful defenses before losing to Conor.

I don't hold much stock in title defenses due to some fighters getting titles shots WAY before others and thus ABLE to have so many defences. Say Tony beat Khabib I see him retiring within the next 3 fights. Usman for example pretty much cleared out his division before becoming Champ so can retire knows he's the best without many defences.

 

[Ufcmaster]

Disageee. How you beat them is very important . By that logic khabibs win of Conor is no good. Conor has 1 win at lw. Was on a huge layoff and hadn't won a fight in years.

Ok even in that way Khabib is still more impressive then Tony. Khabib has never been cut, never been knockdown and only lost 1 round in his 12 UFC bouts. We are talking about the most dominant fighter in UFC or MMA history here.
Khabib dominance > GSP, AS & JJ
People talking about AS leatherface but he got cut or made too bleed more then Khabib. JJ walked out of the octagon on a wheelchair by Alex and Santos. GSP with all the cuts to his face and that controversial decision to Hendricks.
So yes how Khabib wins is way more impressive for me than how Tony wins.

 

[TankAbbott4Eva]

Its mind blowing how people think bj penn as the goat of anything. He was really good for a while.

Youre new to this aren’t you?

 

[Ufcmaster]

Tony fought a RDA who had accumulated far better wins than the one that was fighting Khabib.

Ok I don't agree but you can have that one because in the end Khabib's resume still beats Tony's.