Tonon looked great again...

[Coconutwater]

after his rizin debut he was saying he only trains bjj doesnt do any striking or mma stuff at all maybe hes just full of shit

He is not articulate.

What he meant to say was that he’s not following the traditional MMA blueprint of training all styles with equal vigor. Kron just meant that he feels his best path is simply to use enough striking and enough other arts to implement his jiu jitsu game. He wanted people to know that he wasn’t planning on being able to take someone out with strikes, ever, which IMO, is foolish. I think you should train to KO someone and submit someone because you won’t have that choice.

On the Hogan podcast, he kept preaching jiu-jitsu only. In reality, he had a boxing coach in his academy in Culver City showing stuff and working with the Diaz Brothers long before his MMA debut. Kron even helped Diaz physically build their gym (parts of it).

 

[yetanother]

It is, but to Be for real, power mostly comes as a natural gift, yes technique helps, but if you don’t have it you just don’t have it...

I doubt Tonon has defective genetics. After years of doing something you a lot develop a lot of power.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

I doubt Tonon has defective genetics. After years of doing something you a lot develop a lot of power.

That’s what I meant, he naturally has power..

 

[yetanother]

That’s what I meant, he naturally has power..

What I meant is that I think I would expect Tonon to hit a lot harder after years of striking training than now as a fairly recently transitioned grappler.

 

[Foxflechette57]

I wouldn't want to see him in the UFC either. The corporate culture at ONE seems much more his style. And with the way the UFC is working these days, better to stay at ONE if you want to fight consistently with legitimate paydays.

ONE is great , he should spent some time here..

 

[Foxflechette57]

well tbh it would be an insult t him if he wasnt he already is one of the bets grapplers in jiu jitsu on the planet so all he has t learn is good takedowns and some decent striking he has the very best coaches on the planet and doesnt have to even worka full time job

i like garry a lot but i dont see him being a top 5 guy ever i dont think he has the takedowns to get guys down at the top i hope he proves otherwise

I think he will, he has everything to become top 5 imo.

 

[yetanother]

I think he will, he has everything to become top 5 imo.

He doesn't suck at anything and is improving which are both super good signs and is actually making use of his BJJ rather then being a generic brawler.

 

[mataleaos]

I think Tonon has a more wrestler feel to his takedowns and scrambles and I believe his submission offense has more variety.

This is such a small part of your post and the whole post is awesome but I wanted to briefly throw in my take on this.

I couldn't agree more. I honestly cannot think of a single submission that Tonon has not finished in actual competition. I mean besides maybe a wrist lock or Americana he has finished every single respectable sub in the game at least once. Even subs that aren't in his A-game are executed with a lot of finesse so he's clearly put a lot of work in on most submission holds.

When I think Kron I think RNC, guillotine, and armbar. That's fine and this may not end up being a big deal in MMA. I'm not even saying Tonon is better at tapping people out. Kron won ADCC with all subs and is one of a handful of guys to ever do that.

But with Tonon I get the feeling that he could jump on damn near any sub at any time and get the finish. Maybe it's that Kron has more of an old school position before submission style? I just don't think of Kron as having a game where he "catches" subs. And guys like Aoki, Oliveira, and Tonon have that style.

 

[GSP_37]

Was it ringworm that gave him two bald spots? Are the bald spots permanent?

 

[mataleaos]

I'd like to see him fight better competition, but going to the UFC now would be a mistake. The UFC has zero ability to develop prospects, their model is throw guys in with the hardest opponents willing to take the fight and then totally ignore them if they lose. I think a much better way for guys to go, especially specialists like Garry, is to round out their skills in another league and then jump to the UFC when they can be assured of good paydays and making an immediate title run. Eddie Alvarez more or less did this, seems to be what Askren's doing as well. Even Conor was a very accomplished British regional champion before he set foot in the octagon. The UFC is a good place to be a star, but a terrible place to try and grow into one.

I believe Tonon said after this last fight that he plans to stay in ONE FC at least until 2020, and possibly longer depending on if he's in title contention by then. He also said this 4th fight was within a week of the one year anniversary of his pro debut and that he would like to fight at least 2 more times in 2019.

I can't agree more on the UFC model. Anytime someone strings together 2-3 impressive wins they get thrown into a title shot too early. The UFC notably fucked up with Brian Ortega recently. All the makings of a star and still could be. I think they rushed him into that Max fight though.

With the new deal they have with ESPN I don't see this problem improving because with the terms of the new deal, the UFC's bottom line is going to be less dependent on individual star power within the roster. Put simply, they will not need to make stars in the way they used to. Which is sad but for them I guess if it makes dollars it makes sense.

Was it ringworm that gave him two bald spots? Are the bald spots permanent?

It's Alopecia and I think he said most likely stress related.

 

[Coconutwater]

This is such a small part of your post and the whole post is awesome but I wanted to briefly throw in my take on this.

I couldn't agree more. I honestly cannot think of a single submission that Tonon has not finished in actual competition. I mean besides maybe a wrist lock or Americana he has finished every single respectable sub in the game at least once. Even subs that aren't in his A-game are executed with a lot of finesse so he's clearly put a lot of work in on most submission holds.

When I think Kron I think RNC, guillotine, and armbar. That's fine and this may not end up being a big deal in MMA. I'm not even saying Tonon is better at tapping people out. Kron won ADCC with all subs and is one of a handful of guys to ever do that.

But with Tonon I get the feeling that he could jump on damn near any sub at any time and get the finish. Maybe it's that Kron has more of an old school position before submission style? I just don't think of Kron as having a game where he "catches" subs. And guys like Aoki, Oliveira, and Tonon have that style.

It’s crazy because Kron is a submission hunter but my gut says he’s more reliant on longer rounds than Tonon.

Also fascinating are all the people Kron beat or has been beaten by in BJJ are pretty badass in MMA too-

Sergio Moraes
Beneil Dariush
Gary Tonon
Shinya Aoki
Gilbert Burns

I would love to see Kron and Tonon in an MMA match.

Had either of them been heavier, I would have liked to see them face someone in the mold of Logan Storley in Bellator. Again, if they had more experience and natural size.

 

[tekkenfan]

rani yahra might be the best overall bjj guy atm in mma he catches so many subs and doing that at 135 is insane since its veryyy hard t take guys down and control them at 135 much less submit them

 

[Human Bass]

What I liked about Tonon last fight is how askrenesque he seemed with incredible pressure, control and mat returns.

 

[Coconutwater]

What I liked about Tonon last fight is how askrenesque he seemed with incredible pressure, control and mat returns.

Yeah, it’s weird. If I didn’t know his history, I would have thought his base is folk wrestling .

 

[yetanother]

Yeah, it’s weird. If I didn’t know his history, I would have thought his base is folk wrestling .

It actually is. Tonon started as a folk wrestler. I wouldn't be surprised if he is actually trying to emulate Askren.

 

[Human Bass]

It actually is. Tonon started as a folk wrestler. I wouldn't be surprised if he is actually trying to emulate Askren.

Bjjscout videos on Askren opened the eyes of many, incluinding high level grapplers. I shit you not those videos were the most influential thing on mma grappling in the last couple of years.

 

[Coconutwater]

It actually is. Tonon started as a folk wrestler. I wouldn't be surprised if he is actually trying to emulate Askren.

Tonon started folk at a young age, that’s why his takedowns are so natural. However, it’s not like folk wrestling was his specialty. He’s practiced jiu-jitsu for really long and in a practical sense, he’s a grappler since childhood which makes him so good. All I meant was he’s not a wrestler of a Cormier, Henderson, Askren or Cejudo pedigree.
He’s just a guy who wrestled for a bit, didn’t pursue a true career in wrestling (Collegiate) but instead dedicated himself to submission oriented grappling. All I’m saying is, the dude looks so fluid that if someone said he was a former Olympian, without reading his bio, I would believe it.

 

[yetanother]

Tonon started folk at a young age, that’s why his takedowns are so natural. However, it’s not like folk wrestling was his specialty. He’s practiced jiu-jitsu for really long and in a practical sense, he’s a grappler since childhood which makes him so good. All I meant was he’s not a wrestler of a Cormier, Henderson, Askren or Cejudo pedigree.
He’s just a guy who wrestled for a bit, didn’t pursue a true career in wrestling (Collegiate) but instead dedicated himself to submission oriented grappling. All I’m saying is, the dude looks so fluid that if someone said he was a former Olympian, without reading his bio, I would believe it.

According to an interview with Tonon he learned a lot (most?) of his wrestling as an adult while being a bjj grappler. Tonon is always fluid while grappling. The folkstyle rides (and I would say even mat returns to a degree) are natural movements if you have a submission grappling base.

 

[Deleted member 551049]

He's a great prospect but I feel like his potential is going to be limited until he fully accepts the reality of flat earth the way Kron has.

 

[nateallan]

Lets see Tonon fight someone legit and take a few clean shots. A lot of hyped grapplers look great till they get hit clean. Can't teach chin and toughness which Brian Ortega has tons.