Social To the democratic socialists; do you agree if someone is actually just lazy, they shouldn’t get benefits?

koa pomaikai

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I know many democrats like to deny that lazy moochers exist, but for the sake of argument, let’s assume the lazy moocher does exist.

This is someone who is healthy, young, and capable of working but simply goes… nah f work.

Are you okay with these type of people getting kicked off healthcare and government benefits?

These type of people deserve nothing. Agree?
 
I live in Hawaii.

Since Hawaii gets a ton of money from tourist tax, they have a type of social welfare system.

Many people here and native Hawaiins have not worked for generations. Free food, housing, and checks. Some do occasional side jobs a few times a year.

Surf, hang out, cook outs, etc. All on the government dime. Some own multiple houses and vacation on the mainland also. Those ones usually have a side hustle, on top of being a full time government cash recipient.
 
Any system will be taken advantage of by some people, it's better to provide a safety net for all, but I'm not averse to those on welfare, as long as they are in good health, volunteering or carrying out community employment in exchange for benefits. We have a system in Ireland that does exactly this. People in receipt of benefits have to work a minimum of 19 hrs per week in community employment schemes for welfare payments roughly equalling half a weeks pay. They are supervised like any other employee, and have the option of training courses to further their skills and job prospects.
 
Ahh yes the classic everyone is lazy but me argument
Talk about misreading the OP lol.

The argument against eliminating freeloaders is that they don't exist while skirting the actual question of should they be cut off. This person is simply asking it in another way that avoids the deflection of saying they don't exist. If you can't answer it under the assumption they do exist then we all have our answer on where you stand on freeloaders.
 
To an extent. Every person needs Healthcare. Every person needs access to affordable food/water. But as far as unemployment and housing assistance and such, yeah it is meant to be temporary. There should be occasional reviews of individual to ensure they are doing their due diligence to improve their situation
 
I know many democrats like to deny that lazy moochers exist, but for the sake of argument, let’s assume the lazy moocher does exist.

This is someone who is healthy, young, and capable of working but simply goes… nah f work.

Are you okay with these type of people getting kicked off healthcare and government benefits?

These type of people deserve nothing. Agree?

First off your question doesnt deserve an answer from the get go because you frame it with a strawman fallacy. This reveals that the entire premise is disingenuous and this is likely an attempt at a "gotcha."

No one has ever said that lazy people do not exist:



From there you're essentially making the classic anti-UBI argument, or suggesting that social support is something that needs to be deserved. In order to make this point you must invoke the "lazy man" trope. As a leftist I'll tell you, first there are no more lazy incompetent people than the Comfort Class. Most of whom are CEO's of some sort who "run" Companies that can function without them, and socialize continuous failures with Governnent subsidies. I'm WAY more concerned with corporate welfare fraud and abuse than I am with individual, and anyone genuinely making this argument should also be, especially considering it's about to get much worse.

Now, even if this situation were true to scale, the idea behind policies like UBI, Medicaid 4 All, is not that there wont be people who benefit who are "undeserving"...its that abject economic ruination due to disinvestment and/or wealth hoarding is morally wrong, and that economic support that bolsters communities in a baseline level so they never completely crumble is morally and fiscally more responsible. Atomization, hyper-individuality, and ethno-Nationalism have done a good job of isolating the American mind so all we think about is ourselves more and more, and disdain grew for the very idea of the "welfare King/Queen"...however what this fails to examine is the economic decimation that happens. When Andy Yang talked to Joe Rogan about UBI, Joe focused on people who "dont deserve" free money. Yang told him not to think of it like that, but to think of it as injecting $6 million into a small community. What does he think happens? People start businesses. Creativity flourishes more. People do drugs less because they're not crushingly depressed. Consumer spending stays fairly steady. Covid proved this, and so did every economic study that has examined what happens when you just give people money, if money is what you require for them to exist. Same with health care. Giving people health care results in many more people going to the Doctor, and living longer, than if you base their health care on some misguided notion of whether or not they even deserve it. It's better for communities and the Country to have less abject poverty, and less people choosing not to treat their cancer because it will economically ruin them. It's also better to not entertain these arguments from anyone who thinks adding $3 trillion dollars to our debt is a good idea after having screamed "National Debt!!!" for the last 4 years.
 
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“He who does not work does not eat” -V Lenin. Also 2 Thessalonians 3:10!

That is taking your post literally. Someone with no mental or physical defects who contributes to society in no way out of sheer lazieness.

Having said that I think it’s a duty to look after our people to a degree, even if they are total wasters, when it comes to healthcare, food etc. It’s says more about us than them.
 
I think there should be a minimum. Healthcare, yes. Housing for healthy non-working adults? No. Food? Maybe. For children? Yes.

The point is that, if the lazy moocher wants to get his shit together and at least work a minimum wage job he will be able to buy food and housing but it's still unlikely he will be able to pay for cancer treatment, so that should be covered. Also, healthcare helps people to find work. If you're chronically sick it's likely you will not be able work.
 
I think there should be a minimum. Healthcare, yes. Housing for healthy non-working adults? No. Food? Maybe. For children? Yes.

The point is that, if the lazy moocher wants to get his shit together and at least work a minimum wage job he will be able to buy food and housing but it's still unlikely he will be able to pay for cancer treatment, so that should be covered. Also, healthcare helps people to find work. If you're chronically sick it's likely you will not be able work.

Please list anywhere someone can afford housing on minimum wage jobs.

Not having shelter kills people. Saying someone who is of working age and "healthy" but doesn't work, for whatever reason, shouldn't be given shelter is statistically very likely to result in their health declining very rapidly the moment they no longer have shelter, and their eventual turn to drug use, crime and death. And if they inevitably turn to crime and get arrested guess what? We subsidize all the costs associated with that from the arrest all the way to the cost of imprisonment, feeding them, and their healthcare. Seems like a waste of money rather than fronting some of that cost to avoid the systemic cost of their poverty

Most people in the workforce who are viable only got there because they had parents who didnt think like this. The only reason many communities arent innworse shape across the Country is because it has become more common for families to stay living together longer regardless of how many of them work. If everyone held that perspective and removed access to housing the moment someone was theoretically viable to work, the homeless population would be even higher.
 
I live in Hawaii.

Since Hawaii gets a ton of money from tourist tax, they have a type of social welfare system.

Many people here and native Hawaiins have not worked for generations. Free food, housing, and checks. Some do occasional side jobs a few times a year.

Surf, hang out, cook outs, etc. All on the government dime. Some own multiple houses and vacation on the mainland also. Those ones usually have a side hustle, on top of being a full time government cash recipient.
We call those deadbeats over here in the continental US.
 
I see families supporting their drugs addicts and thieves all the time. They coddle the weak and they never develop. My friend has been cut off many times but the safety net is already there. When his parents die he will spend all their money that he hasn't already and be broke, unskilled and undereducated. And everyone else owes him help? The government needs to give him health care?

I'm physically broken. When I didn't have health care I didn't have health care. I didn't cry to the gov or cry on sherdog about it, I didn't put my hand out. No one owes me anything.
 
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