To all the casuals who think GSP could ever beat GOAT Anderson

[Based and White Pilled]

If I ducked my main competitor for years and then challenged a far less competitive guy, and then after I got the promotion I ran a way from any other challenge...

Well yeah, that does not look good does it?

Look good for what? You applied for the job and got it. You're happy with your situation and don't feel the need to take an unnecessary risk. Whatever. You don't get bonus points for it, but it isn't a detraction from your merits either.

Accepting challenges outside your weight class shouldn't be expected. It is going above and beyond. For the record, Anderson also chose to never fight any of the champions in the weight class above him. The fact that the onus was solely on GSP to fight a larger champion is stupid.

But he was OK with Bisping having an advantage, wasn't he?

So what? He felt confident he would beat Bisping who has less power after having years to put on weight. He is a lesser fighter because he recognized that Bisping was less dangerous than Anderson? Lol what's your point?

 

[OmegaRugal]

If Chael Sonnen can beat the shit out of him for 24.5 mins, no reason to think GSP wouldn't be competitive.

Unfortunately GSP doesn't agree with you.

 

[OmegaRugal]

Exactly. This is what makes GSP the smartest man in mma..

I completely understand why GSP did what he did.

It's better for people to believe he could beat Silva than to prove to people ...that he couldn't.

Just like him quiting MMA right before testing got real and only asked for strong testing in his last fight.

Better people think he is a clean fighter by asking for testing with one foot out the door then to actually stick around and risk getting caught.

 

[Claude]

he recognized that Bisping was less dangerous than Anderson? Lol what's your point?

That.

That is exactly my point. GSP moved up to fight a very weak MW champion because he thought he could beat him. He didn't move up to fight Anderson for the opposite reason.

I see you can admit it, but many other GSP fans can't.

 

[JKS]

Well sure Anderson is a champion too, but to have such superior skills that hes going to put him over his lap and spank him?...LOL No Just stupid talk

LOL, don't take it so literally. In all seriousness....yes, Anderson does posses to skills and ability to obliterate GSP very early, he did it to make guys and some great fighters. I've always said Anderson wins this by TKO. Would it be a dominant early finish or a later one with a even fight for a few rounds? Either one could happen.

 

[Based and White Pilled]

That.

That is exactly my point. GSP moved up to fight a very weak MW champion because he thought he could beat him. He didn't move up to fight Anderson for the opposite reason.

I see you can admit it, but many other GSP fans can't.

I think everyone knows that Bisping is a safer fight than Anderson was. That doesn't mean GSP didn't think he could win. It just means the risk was great.

They just also know that expecting someone to move up and fight a skilled champion who is significantly larger than them is stupid (once again, your hero Anderson wouldn't) and that he had a lot of time to gain weight before fighting Bisping. He was much bigger in that fight than he had ever been at WW.

Any statement you make about GSP not moving up to fight Anderson can also be made about Anderson not moving up to fight Machida, Shogun, or Jones. It isn't like it's some great show of cowardice. The only difference between the two situations is that GSP was so good that many actually thought he could move up and beat a dominant champion in Anderson, so the fight was in high demand. No one was delusional enough to think Anderson could move up and beat a dominant champion in Jones.

 

[ninjion]

GSP is better p4p but in the real world, where size matters, Anderson would win.

 

[AnotherOldGuy]

But he was OK with Bisping having an advantage, wasn't he?

Yup, because Bisping wasn't nearly as good as Anderson, and because he was just coming back for a few odd fights to make some extra money after his regular career was over.

Anderson too had no problem with Forest and Irving having a weight advantage, but didn't want Jones to have one. Why? Because Jones is a very good fighter, the other two weren't.

Great smaller fighters can beat good but not great bigger fighters. Great smaller fighters can't beat great bigger fighters (which is the whole point of weight divisions). GSP, Anderson and Jones are great fighters, so if they fight each other the bigger guy is going to win. Bisping, Irving, Forest are good but not great fighters, so they can be beaten by great smaller guys (GSP and Anderson respectively).

Again, the fighters prove they understand this in their own careers. GSP didn't go up in weight to fight a great MW (Anderson). Anderson didn't go up in weight to fight a great LHW (Jones). Jones didn't go up in weight to fight a very good HW (Cain). Because the fighters, who train with guys of all sizes, know that for equally skilled fighters weight is a huge factor. Fans watch a lot of movies and think size is just a number. Fighters know better.

The only way to have a fair fight between equally skilled fighters is to have the same weight at fight time. That's what Olympic sports like judo and wrestling do. But some unfair fights are good spectator fights. GSP and Anderson would have been. So how do you make it worthwhile for the smaller guy to give the bigger guy an advantage? The best way is to pay the smaller guy an extra few million to make up for the size difference. But the UFC is used to dealing with stupid fighters who don't understand business, and so didn't want to do that. And smart guys like GSP and Anderson laughed at the idea of giving a free advantage to their competition -- because its laughable to expect someone to freely give away a big advantage like that). I suspect GSP said to himself when the UFC suggested he go up in weight to fight Anderson without extra money for doing so "How stupid do they think I am -- you want me to go up in weight to fight Anderson for no extra money? Make it worth my while and then we'll talk."

This stuff is always about money. Its like the Pac-Mayweather fight. People talked about ducking and fear -- but when the money was right suddenly all the fear instantly evaporated. When your dealing in purses worth millions of dollars only an idiot doesn't negotiate until they get a good deal.

 

[Hirashin]

Anderson had fought at 170 for years. However I tend to agree -- basically Anderson was bigger than GSP (which is why GSP could make 170 easily and Anderson couldn't make it at all).

The way to make the fight fair would be to have a weigh-in at fight time (Olympic sports like judo and now wrestling do exactly this). With 24 hours to rehydrate Anderson would be 15 pounds heavier than GSP in the cage whether the weigh-in was at 178 or 185; both GSP and Anderson knew this. That was why GSP said he'd need a year to put on enough lean mass to be the same cage weight as Anderson.

But the UFC is against same day weigh-ins because it loses a big marketing element (the weigh-in). Again, it comes down to money. The fight would have happened if they had same day weigh-ins (ie same cage weight), but that was never going to happen. It would have happened at 185 (no one really wanted 178 because they'd lose too many casual PPV's if it wasn't a title fight) if the UFC had offered GSP an extra $5 million to give Anderson an in-cage weight advantage. The UFC was too cheap to do that, because it was used to fighters being stupid businessmen who think its normal to give your competition a free advantage (no successful business does this, and fighters making millions of dollars are first and foremost businesses).

I agree with the weigh ins, I used to care in the past about that, not anymore. Let them bang bro. I'd give them free pass for steroids too, no usada.

GSP was too scared to lose again, he knows too well that a fighter is worth nothing after a loss. He knew the fight with Anderson was going one way only, with him getting KOd stiff.

 

[jeremyemilio]

GSP desperatelly goes for a TD in both occasions. Gets stuffed 3 times. Then gets KOd stiff. 3 minutes into round 1. GSP didn't want to fight Anderson 10 years ago, but there is still time to fight Izzy.

I see GSP as a bit of a nightmare match-up for Anderson, but I'm an Anderson fan, too, and he always found a way to handle his nightmare match-ups until he got old and got caught by Weidman. I'm not going to pretend I don't think the fight could go Anderson's way as well.

But as for the "ducking" nonsense that flies around here all of the time, the truth is that the reason that GSP v Anderson never happened was nothing more that a simple failure to come to an agreement on terms.

GSP didn't want to fight Anderson at 185 for whatever he was being offered; Anderson didn't want to fight GSP at 170 for whatever he was being offered; the UFC didn't want to offer enough to either fighter to make a fight happen at either weight class.

 

[AnotherOldGuy]

I agree with the weigh ins, I used to care in the past about that, not anymore. Let them bang bro. I'd give them free pass for steroids too, no usada.

GSP was too scared to lose again, he knows too well that a fighter is worth nothing after a loss. He knew the fight with Anderson was going one way only, with him getting KOd stiff.

Allowing steroids isn't a practical possibility, for the same reason that allowing them to use weapons like in the Roman gladiator times isn't a practical possibility (despite fighting with weapons being far more entertaining than unarmed fighting): society won't allow it.

GSP was scared to lose at 185, Anderson was scared to lose at 170, and neither seriously wanted a catch weight simply because a non-title fight severely reduces casual fan interest and both get a large PPV cut. Basically at 170 GSP wins 50-45, at 185 Anderson gets a KO, both knew it, so neither was interested in changing weight to fight the other without a big bonus for doing so. Both were willing to change weight to fight easier guys (GSP went to 185 to fight Bisping, Anderson was calling out Connor, a fight that could only happen at 170).

Scared for both them meant not scared of getting hurt, or even of having an L on their record (both already had losses); they were scared of losing future earnings because of the loss. Which meant it was up to the UFC to offer whoever changed weight enough money to offset future losses. That would be normal business practice in any other business. But the UFC thinks fighters are idiots who don't understand business, so expected one of them would agree to change weight without being paid extra to do so. But neither GSP nor Anderson are stupid.

I'm surprised by how many people blame either GSP or Anderson for there not being the fight, when they were just doing what good business people do. It was the UFC that tried to get the fight on the cheap, but for some reason a lot of people give Dana and company a pass on it.

 

[Hirashin]

I see GSP as a bit of a nightmare match-up for Anderson, but I'm an Anderson fan, too, and he always found a way to handle his nightmare match-ups until he got old and got caught by Weidman. I'm not going to pretend I don't think the fight could go Anderson's way as well.

But as for the "ducking" nonsense that flies around here all of the time, the truth is that the reason that GSP v Anderson never happened was nothing more that a simple failure to come to an agreement on terms.

GSP didn't want to fight Anderson at 185 for whatever he was being offered; Anderson didn't want to fight GSP at 170 for whatever he was being offered; the UFC didn't want to offer enough to either fighter to make a fight happen at either weight class.

Allowing steroids isn't a practical possibility, for the same reason that allowing them to use weapons like in the Roman gladiator times isn't a practical possibility (despite fighting with weapons being far more entertaining than unarmed fighting): society won't allow it.

GSP was scared to lose at 185, Anderson was scared to lose at 170, and neither seriously wanted a catch weight simply because a non-title fight severely reduces casual fan interest and both get a large PPV cut. Basically at 170 GSP wins 50-45, at 185 Anderson gets a KO, both knew it, so neither was interested in changing weight to fight the other without a big bonus for doing so. Both were willing to change weight to fight easier guys (GSP went to 185 to fight Bisping, Anderson was calling out Connor, a fight that could only happen at 170).

Scared for both them meant not scared of getting hurt, or even of having an L on their record (both already had losses); they were scared of losing future earnings because of the loss. Which meant it was up to the UFC to offer whoever changed weight enough money to offset future losses. That would be normal business practice in any other business. But the UFC thinks fighters are idiots who don't understand business, so expected one of them would agree to change weight without being paid extra to do so. But neither GSP nor Anderson are stupid.

I'm surprised by how many people blame either GSP or Anderson for there not being the fight, when they were just doing what good business people do. It was the UFC that tried to get the fight on the cheap, but for some reason a lot of people give Dana and company a pass on it.

There is now way 2009 Anderson could have made 170, he was fighting at LHW too. Steroids were basically allowed pre usada era, with the simple ass testing method ufc was using on the fight of the night, everybody was cycling and they looked ripped. Now in the usada era, you have TJ you was using for 4 years befoe he got caught, I'd say 70% are still using. Its a matter of whether its legal or illegal, the same problem with prostitution, its in all countries, but in few its actually legal.

The fact that GSP didn't want that fight in the period 2008-2011, but wanted the oneeyed grandpa Bisping is because he knew he couldn't beat Anderson, who was too good back then. GSP would lose and his brand would get damaged. A fighter's brand is terribly damaged after a loss, his word is not worth 5 cents. Look at Whitaker now, nobody thinks high of him, he is just another loser, until he gets back to a 3 fight win streak. WHo knows what kind of trauma did GSP experience after his previous losses that made him terrified of losing again.

 

[91 seconds]

I'd pick a prime Silva to beat a prime GSP 7/10 times. There's always room for anybody to lose.

 

[AnotherOldGuy]

There is now way 2009 Anderson could have made 170, he was fighting at LHW too. Steroids were basically allowed pre usada era, with the simple ass testing method ufc was using on the fight of the night, everybody was cycling and they looked ripped. Now in the usada era, you have TJ you was using for 4 years befoe he got caught, I'd say 70% are still using. Its a matter of whether its legal or illegal, the same problem with prostitution, its in all countries, but in few its actually legal.

The fact that GSP didn't want that fight in the period 2008-2011, but wanted the oneeyed grandpa Bisping is because he knew he couldn't beat Anderson, who was too good back then. GSP would lose and his brand would get damaged. A fighter's brand is terribly damaged after a loss, his word is not worth 5 cents. Look at Whitaker now, nobody thinks high of him, he is just another loser, until he gets back to a 3 fight win streak. WHo knows what kind of trauma did GSP experience after his previous losses that made him terrified of losing again.

Again, I already said that everyone (including GSP and Anderson) knew that at 185 Anderson wins, at 170 GSP wins. BTW, PED's is how Anderson could have made 170, some are quite effective for cutting weight ... and no doubt that's how Anderson thought he could have made weight at 170 to fight Connor when he called Connor out. If Anderson thought he could get down to fight Connor, its hard to believe he didn't think he could get down to fight GSP.

Look, you agree with me that losing is hard on a fighter's brand -- which is why neither Anderson nor GSP wanted to fight at the other guy's weight division, and why Anderson didn't want to go up to LHW to fight a dominant champ in Jones, why Jones doesn't want to go up to HW. The risk/reward means its just not worth it.

Where we seem to disagree is on who's fault it is that the fight didn't happen. You blame GSP for being smart enough not to make a bad business decision by giving Anderson an advantage by going to 185 for the fight without getting paid extra to change weight. Others blame Anderson for being smart enough not to make a bad business decision by going to 170 for the fight without being paid extra.

To me it seems obvious that the people to blame is the UFC. In normal business practice the UFC would offset the risk/reward by giving whoever agreed to change weight a big enough bonus (probably in the territory of $5 million) that it would offset future earnings loss if they lose. That is, in business its normal to make it worth someone's while to take higher risk -- in fact most companies that expect people to take increased risk without compensation quickly go out of business, because most people are far too smart to do that. Basically increased risk with no increased reward is a sucker's bet. But the UFC was too cheap to pay for a weight change, and of course both Anderson and GSP were too smart to make the bad business decision the UFC (and many fans for some reason) wanted them to make -- ie changing weight without being paid extra for doing so.

Do you think GSP should have accepted giving Anderson an advantage by going to 185 without any extra money for changing weight? Do you think businesses should give their competitors advantages without getting anything in return?

 

[Jonny Ninja]

If GSP believed he could beat Anderson Silva, then he would have taken the fight. GSP had no problems taking the fight against Michael Bisping to get a cheap double-belt.

Exactly that! he could've fought for the MW belt at anytime. Instead he came out of retirement for 1 fight because he thought he could win that particular fight

 

[Claude]

I think everyone knows that Bisping is a safer fight than Anderson was. That doesn't mean GSP didn't think he could win. It just means the risk was great.

They just also know that expecting someone to move up and fight a skilled champion who is significantly larger than them is stupid (once again, your hero Anderson wouldn't) and that he had a lot of time to gain weight before fighting Bisping. He was much bigger in that fight than he had ever been at WW.

Any statement you make about GSP not moving up to fight Anderson can also be made about Anderson not moving up to fight Machida, Shogun, or Jones. It isn't like it's some great show of cowardice. The only difference between the two situations is that GSP was so good that many actually thought he could move up and beat a dominant champion in Anderson, so the fight was in high demand. No one was delusional enough to think Anderson could move up and beat a dominant champion in Jones.

Anderson also cherry picked beatable fighters in a higher weight class.

 

[Claude]

Yup, because Bisping wasn't nearly as good as Anderson, and because he was just coming back for a few odd fights to make some extra money after his regular career was over.

Well that was my point.

If you accept GSP cherry picked (just like Anderson) then there's nothing to argue about.

 

[GSP Rush]

What about all the non casuals that think that?

 

[Hirashin]

Again, I already said that everyone (including GSP and Anderson) knew that at 185 Anderson wins, at 170 GSP wins. BTW, PED's is how Anderson could have made 170, some are quite effective for cutting weight ... and no doubt that's how Anderson thought he could have made weight at 170 to fight Connor when he called Connor out. If Anderson thought he could get down to fight Connor, its hard to believe he didn't think he could get down to fight GSP.

Look, you agree with me that losing is hard on a fighter's brand -- which is why neither Anderson nor GSP wanted to fight at the other guy's weight division, and why Anderson didn't want to go up to LHW to fight a dominant champ in Jones, why Jones doesn't want to go up to HW. The risk/reward means its just not worth it.

Where we seem to disagree is on who's fault it is that the fight didn't happen. You blame GSP for being smart enough not to make a bad business decision by giving Anderson an advantage by going to 185 for the fight without getting paid extra to change weight. Others blame Anderson for being smart enough not to make a bad business decision by going to 170 for the fight without being paid extra.

To me it seems obvious that the people to blame is the UFC. In normal business practice the UFC would offset the risk/reward by giving whoever agreed to change weight a big enough bonus (probably in the territory of $5 million) that it would offset future earnings loss if they lose. That is, in business its normal to make it worth someone's while to take higher risk -- in fact most companies that expect people to take increased risk without compensation quickly go out of business, because most people are far too smart to do that. Basically increased risk with no increased reward is a sucker's bet. But the UFC was too cheap to pay for a weight change, and of course both Anderson and GSP were too smart to make the bad business decision the UFC (and many fans for some reason) wanted them to make -- ie changing weight without being paid extra for doing so.

Do you think GSP should have accepted giving Anderson an advantage by going to 185 without any extra money for changing weight? Do you think businesses should give their competitors advantages without getting anything in return?

But the deal was 178. I agree GSP had no business going to 185, though he didn't look small compared to Bisping..

 

[Hirashin]

Anderson also cherry picked beatable fighters in a higher weight class.

Cherry picking a champion