TMA Blocks

Muerto

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Arts like Kickboxing rely on simple knee and elbow blocks to shield them from the blows of the opponent. However, most traditional martial arts, if not all, have elaborate blocking methods and techniques. Some of these arts, even the ones originally developed for military purposes such as Taekwondo, rely on blocks for protection. TKD guys do a lot of knee blocking as well, but they also learn to use this elaborate traditional blocking system.

Which brings me to my question...

How come nobody blocks like the traditional ways in MMA/NHB? They seem to be effective in disrupting the flow of an opponents attack. If they were ineffective, they wouldn't have been developed, right? So why don't strikers in MMA use blocks?

Is it because most of the guys in MMA are NOT traditional martial artists to begin with?

What's the deal?
 
Im not sure what you mean by this, but if you mean like a perry, they dont do that much and im not sure why.
 
Muerto said:
Arts like Kickboxing rely on simple knee and elbow blocks to shield them from the blows of the opponent. However, most traditional martial arts, if not all, have elaborate blocking methods and techniques. Some of these arts, even the ones originally developed for military purposes such as Taekwondo, rely on blocks for protection. TKD guys do a lot of knee blocking as well, but they also learn to use this elaborate traditional blocking system.

Which brings me to my question...

How come nobody blocks like the traditional ways in MMA/NHB? They seem to be effective in disrupting the flow of an opponents attack. If they were ineffective, they wouldn't have been developed, right? So why don't strikers in MMA use blocks?

Is it because most of the guys in MMA are NOT traditional martial artists to begin with?

What's the deal?


Same here... not sure what blocks you are talking about, but assuming that blocks wouldn't have been developed unless they are effective is faulty logic. If that was the case Karate guys would have their hands up like boxers to protect their face.
 
I box, and know people who do TKD. I have asked them how they would block a jab, and they're blocks are pathetically worthless. "Snap" and "low" blocks with the forearm do nothing against good punches, especially those of a boxer. They also leave the user wide open, and is probably the reason why they aren't used very often.
 
So much propaganda. TKD isn't a military/combatives art. Hapkido is a combatives art and as such, the blocking schemes are a bit different.

Nobody blocks that way because it's slow and ineffective. Why are you trying to stir up shit?

I don't know how you define traditional arts, but I consider wrestling and muay thai as traditional arts. They have a sport aspect, yes, but have a longer and more unique heritage. Wrestling is considered the oldest sport and if anyone has studied muay thai in Thailand knows how muay thai is rooted in tradition - wai khru for example.
 
TKD is all about kicking they rarely use hands and dont face people who are as proficient at hands as boxers, they're not used to dealing with fast. accurate combos coming from both hands simultaneously which is why most TKD blocks are crap. Tehy might block someone tryiing to grab you or your lapels but not trained punchers. The only blocks I use from TKD are the palm down block or parry, the rising high block, and the outside hammer fist block for hook punches, the rest(knife hand, etc.) cant be used against punches. The TKD blocks for kicks are ridiculos, hammer fist, palm block? no way I just use the elbow and knee to block.
 
slow exagerated blockes were developed for 2 reasons.

First traditional figting styles are not as fluid as modern boxing/kickboxing where punches are thrown in comibinations and flow like water.

Secondly tma blocks are very usfule against weopon attacks like knives, battons, baonetss etc where covering and using your elbows and forarms in boxing/kickboxing only gets u stabed or broken limbs.

Thats y if u watch Krav Maga (at least what i have seen) which is a military martial art of isreal there blocks against weopons are exagerated tma blocks.
 
In a real fight, the blocks won't be so obvious (like in the forms), the amplitude will be much smaller, so it will end up looking not very different from a boxing parry anyway.
 
I'll tell you why people don't use traditional TMA blocks in boxing/kickboxing.

Because NOBODY uses traditional TMA blocks in ANYTHING. NOBODY uses them in TKD or Karate either. Because they are not blocks.

They are stylised movements meant to teach basic movements. When fighting, you don't execute them like you would in a form. You compact them, and do only as much movement as necessary. To the point where they look like a regular parry.

How come you don't know this? Now I'm sure that you're either lying or trolling.
 
Evil Eye Gouger said:
I'll tell you why people don't use traditional TMA blocks in boxing/kickboxing.

Because NOBODY uses traditional TMA blocks in ANYTHING. NOBODY uses them in TKD or Karate either. Because they are not blocks.

They are stylised movements meant to teach basic movements. When fighting, you don't execute them like you would in a form. You compact them, and do only as much movement as necessary. To the point where they look like a regular parry.

How come you don't know this? Now I'm sure that you're either lying or trolling.


Neither. I have 7 yrs of TKD experience. Not as much as you. I'm not trolling or lying. Whenever I sparred I never used the traditional blocks and neither do kickboxers, so I'm just wondering why.

You say... "you compact them".

So from TKDer to TKDer... for example... The outside block to block oncoming punches? If I "compacted" those types of blocks and used them, they would work but look like a regular parry?


Sorry.. I don' t have much boxing experience. Explain a parry and how it relates to "compacting" traditional blcks.
 
Muerto said:
Neither. I have 7 yrs of TKD experience. Not as much as you. I'm not trolling or lying. Whenever I sparred I never used the traditional blocks and neither do kickboxers, so I'm just wondering why.

You say... "you compact them".

So from TKDer to TKDer... for example... The outside block to block oncoming punches? If I "compacted" those types of blocks and used them, they would work but look like a regular parry?


Sorry.. I don' t have much boxing experience. Explain a parry and how it relates to "compacting" traditional blcks.
A parry is directing your opponent's blow away from you.

When fighting, you do not cross your hands, take a step forward, and then execute the wide, large block. You do a similar motion, but the preparation and the execution length are exactly as large as they need to be. It leads to very quick, compact movements, which fit the situation you're in.

The thing TMA blocks are meant to teach you is the proper use of the hip rotation, the proper tension/relaxation and the proper use of both arms to generate power, and the proper twist of the wrists to fend off a blow.

All of these things should be present when you actually do a block while fighting. You just don't do it in the large, slow, stylised way. You compact the block, make it quicker, more efficient.

The outside middle block, for example. In a traditional way, you prepare your hands by having the blocking hand behind you, and the other one next to your shoulder. Then you step forward and rotate your hips so that the blocking hand is in front of you and the other one is chambered at the hip.

In a fight, you don't prepare the hands in such an exquisite fashion. You block from your guard. You block together with a (very very small) step out at an angle. It is a short block. The other hand doesn't go to your hip, it stays close to the guard.

All the elements are still there, but you've made it quicker and more compact, and are ready to continue to strike instead of standing there and admiring your block.

That's the TMA way of teaching. They teach you extravagant motions with exaggerated basics from which you then distill your own fighting style through practice and experience. Arts like boxing simply show you how it should look and you learn like that.

But you never stand there in a back stance and do a traditional block, other then for demonstration purposes. These blocks are not meant to teach you what a block should look like, they're meant to teach you all the basic elements that should be in a block, and from this, you develop the fighting techniques.
 
Evil Eye Gouger said:
A parry is directing your opponent's blow away from you.

When fighting, you do not cross your hands, take a step forward, and then execute the wide, large block. You do a similar motion, but the preparation and the execution length are exactly as large as they need to be. It leads to very quick, compact movements, which fit the situation you're in.

The thing TMA blocks are meant to teach you is the proper use of the hip rotation, the proper tension/relaxation and the proper use of both arms to generate power, and the proper twist of the wrists to fend off a blow.

All of these things should be present when you actually do a block while fighting. You just don't do it in the large, slow, stylised way. You compact the block, make it quicker, more efficient.

The outside middle block, for example. In a traditional way, you prepare your hands by having the blocking hand behind you, and the other one next to your shoulder. Then you step forward and rotate your hips so that the blocking hand is in front of you and the other one is chambered at the hip.

In a fight, you don't prepare the hands in such an exquisite fashion. You block from your guard. You block together with a (very very small) step out at an angle. It is a short block. The other hand doesn't go to your hip, it stays close to the guard.

All the elements are still there, but you've made it quicker and more compact, and are ready to continue to strike instead of standing there and admiring your block.

That's the TMA way of teaching. They teach you extravagant motions with exaggerated basics from which you then distill your own fighting style through practice and experience. Arts like boxing simply show you how it should look and you learn like that.

But you never stand there in a back stance and do a traditional block, other then for demonstration purposes. These blocks are not meant to teach you what a block should look like, they're meant to teach you all the basic elements that should be in a block, and from this, you develop the fighting techniques.



That answered my question. Thanks a lot man, you really cleared it up for me.
 
Evil Eye Gouger said:
A parry is directing your opponent's blow away from you.

When fighting, you do not cross your hands, take a step forward, and then execute the wide, large block. You do a similar motion, but the preparation and the execution length are exactly as large as they need to be. It leads to very quick, compact movements, which fit the situation you're in.

The thing TMA blocks are meant to teach you is the proper use of the hip rotation, the proper tension/relaxation and the proper use of both arms to generate power, and the proper twist of the wrists to fend off a blow.

All of these things should be present when you actually do a block while fighting. You just don't do it in the large, slow, stylised way. You compact the block, make it quicker, more efficient.

The outside middle block, for example. In a traditional way, you prepare your hands by having the blocking hand behind you, and the other one next to your shoulder. Then you step forward and rotate your hips so that the blocking hand is in front of you and the other one is chambered at the hip.

In a fight, you don't prepare the hands in such an exquisite fashion. You block from your guard. You block together with a (very very small) step out at an angle. It is a short block. The other hand doesn't go to your hip, it stays close to the guard.

All the elements are still there, but you've made it quicker and more compact, and are ready to continue to strike instead of standing there and admiring your block.

That's the TMA way of teaching. They teach you extravagant motions with exaggerated basics from which you then distill your own fighting style through practice and experience. Arts like boxing simply show you how it should look and you learn like that.

But you never stand there in a back stance and do a traditional block, other then for demonstration purposes. These blocks are not meant to teach you what a block should look like, they're meant to teach you all the basic elements that should be in a block, and from this, you develop the fighting techniques.

Agreed.

I didn't understand this when I took karate many years ago. Whenever we sparred, nobody faught as if they knew karate (at least the noobs like myself). This is one of the reasons I stopped taking it. My simple "instinctive" streetfighting seemed to be effective than what I was being taught. Only in retrospect years later did I realize that my "instincts" were just me enacting my karate training in a realistic way.
 
Muerto said:
If they were ineffective, they wouldn't have been developed, right?

i think this is where you go wrong. i'm not going to go on an anti-TKD rant here, but...

everything is developed for a reason, yes, and was probably "effective" in its day. you're kinda asking a question similar to why box formations and ranked firing lines are not used in battle today. they were very effective in their time, with cavalry and muskets, however now they are outdated by new rules and new tools.

MMA != TKD
 
in TMA,
the blocks you learn are NOT blocks.

I train in TMA and MMA
and can make TMA work in MMA.
most guys I have met cannot make TMA work in MMA.
why am I an exception? because I trained in MMA.

now most guys who train in MMA can obviously not make TMA work for them.
why? because they haven't trained in TMA AFTER they did in MMA.
you have to have the mind set, to learn from anything. to be a detective,
and really study and research and not think that the ancestors were morons.
 
sha said:
In a real fight, the blocks won't be so obvious (like in the forms), the amplitude will be much smaller, so it will end up looking not very different from a boxing parry anyway.

A problem with that though is when people are trained to throw those big exagerated blocks, they often end up always doing it since the karate guy has drilled it into their minds. And, or they have no effective protection at all from fast hands.
 
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