TKD in MMA?

[blanko]

not kuk sool, Kyuck sool ( as in the harsh/rough art. It is the fighting style of the N.korean military)

Kuk sool in chinese characrers neab "national art" not kung fu.

 

[Evil Eye Gouger]

not kuk sool, Kyuck sool ( as in the harsh/rough art. It is the fighting style of the N.korean military)

Kuk sool in chinese characrers neab "national art" not kung fu.

Hrm, you may be right, it certainly makes sense, as it's the same Kuk as in Kukkiwon.

I got it mixed up with something else.

 

[Evil Eye Gouger]

I don't want to revive a dead discussio which was not going anywhere anyway, but I thought it was an interesting coincidence.

Today in my TKD class we did knee and elbow work extensively. And sweeps.

 

[Sinister]

Subsequently I found out that Hwang's service as an Instructor for Korean Military as well as South Vietnamese Military was circa 1965. Now in mentioning Park Jung Hee this makes sense because Hwang though being of Korean descent, was actually born in Japan and spent the early part of his childhood there. So him being familiar with Japanese culture would sit well with Park who was marched against for his pro-Japanese policies.

And I can't find anything on Chang Su Ok. Though I do find it interesting, if what blanko says is true then apparently the Korean Military saw fit to completely redo their fighting system, right near the end of the Vietnam War. Seems an odd time to do so to me, but I'm going to keep further researching.

Here's a lineage of Korean Martial Arts...I'm not seeing "Kyuck Sul" there.

http://www.allmartialarts.com/KIXCO/History/history/map.htm

 

[Evil Eye Gouger]

I know for a fact that Korean instructors taught TKD to US soldiers during the Vietnam war. Not kickboxing, but TKD. I've actually met and talked to instructors who did this.

But this was a while back and I have no idea what the secret services do nowadays. I doubt it's only TKD, just like I doubt it's BJJ or wrestling. I know it's still mandatory to train TKD in the military. Most guys get their black belt during mandatory military service.

 

[Sinister]

Funny you should say EEG, I'm researching as we speak. Apparently the North Korean Special Forces unit was who was sent to assassinate Park Jung Hee, and the General of that Unit was named "CHang K Oe", I wonder if that's whom blanko was referring to. Apparently he wanted a system that deviated from traditional Tae Kwon Do, and focused more on killing/injuring enemies as opposed to knocking out or submitting. So what was created is named as "Tukong Musool", and is kind of like Krav Maga (for lack of a better reference)...but, according to the information I'm finding the change of South Korea's Special Forces to this system didn't take place until about 1970 or so, here are the names of the Unit instructors:

Tukong Unit Masters: Master In Ki Kim, Master Sung Pok Choi, Master Yong Kwi Han, Master Sung Ho Lee, Master Jin Kwon Kim -- also helpful later in the development was Master Chil Hyun Pak; Headquarters Unit Master: Master Won Ik Yi

Here's the story about the 1968 assassination attempt:

The SOF is menacing even in peacetime. While they have launched a number of raids in recent years, the SOF

 

[Commissar]

The debate's pretty much over, but I'll add my experience.

First, I did not come from a Taekwondo McDojo by any means. I was there for five years and made red belt. My style was WTF, and a lot of emphasis was placed on Olympic rules. With that said, my instructor - a 4th degree black belt under Grandmaster Daniel Witt - taught plenty of knees and elbows, as well as basic clinches. Obviously we did not use these in competition, but we learnt them because we accept that there would be no such thing as a 'no clinch' rule in a street fight.

I've competed plenty of times in Taekwondo competition - in the WTF and the ITF styles of rules (my posted record is only my National record, ignoring any provincial matches I've competed in). I've won many, and I've lost many, and I must tell you that a Taekwondo match is very grueling.

I no longer do Taekwondo - I've started up a bunch of grappling arts in it's stead - but I have the utmost respect for it, because I'm a very capable striker, with plenty of tournament experience, as well as it keeping me in very good condition and introducing me to martial arts as a whole.

That said, a Taekwondo practitioner could easily knock out a Muai Thai practitioner. Or not. You can't base anything around the art. It's the fighter's success or the fighter's failure at using said martial art in competition, not the Art's success or failure at working.

 

[funkgsus]

Hey. speaking of Muay Thai VS TKD,, any one got any fights they can post,, haven't seen a good one in a while

 

[socalgrappler]

Like every one else is saying Stay away from his kicks... there dangerous. Just get him to the Fence or ropes or any thing and take him to the ground (if you know ground work) then 1. ground and pound or 2. submit. If you want to keep it on the feet, make it a close fight. Dont let him get front snaps or side kicks in. Not often used, but when i sparred a TKD fighter in a MMA sparing match, he throw a solid front snap and wam, nocked the windoutta me. Soo watch for that stuff.

 

[blanko]

Funny you should say EEG, I'm researching as we speak. Apparently the North Korean Special Forces unit was who was sent to assassinate Park Jung Hee, and the General of that Unit was named "CHang K Oe", I wonder if that's whom blanko was referring to. Apparently he wanted a system that deviated from traditional Tae Kwon Do, and focused more on killing/injuring enemies as opposed to knocking out or submitting. So what was created is named as "Tukong Musool", and is kind of like Krav Maga (for lack of a better reference)...but, according to the information I'm finding the change of South Korea's Special Forces to this system didn't take place until about 1970 or so, here are the names of the Unit instructors:

Chang su Ok is the korean who "devised" TKMS and TKMS is more like combat sambo if anything; it has armbars, double leg takedowns, kneebars, and various chokes like sambo/US army combatives. Now, did/does it have an evolved groundgame like combat Sambo? No, but they have added more ground moves in recent years.

But I find nothing to verify the use of "Kyuck Sul"...still.

it's because Kyuck sul is a footnote to the event itself. Remember only one man was captured and it took a while for him to be "questioned"/trusted enough were he was allowed to spend time with the ROK military and then it took time for the ROK military to come up with TKMS. If you dont' belive me just ask one of your korean friends to type "kyuck sul" (in korean) at www.naver.com. What i am saying is bascially history. Now, is this history wildly known? No. I also doubt that you would find this informantion on any "martial arts" websites.

Here's a lineage of Korean Martial Arts...I'm not seeing "Kyuck Sul" there.

http://www.allmartialarts.com/KIXCO...history/map.htm [/qutoe]

Why would a military fighting style of North Korea be listed with civilain S. Korean styles? If you notice, you don't see TKMS there also.

 

[TheHighlander]

Like every one else is saying Stay away from his kicks... there dangerous. Just get him to the Fence or ropes or any thing and take him to the ground (if you know ground work) then 1. ground and pound or 2. submit. If you want to keep it on the feet, make it a close fight. Dont let him get front snaps or side kicks in. Not often used, but when i sparred a TKD fighter in a MMA sparing match, he throw a solid front snap and wam, nocked the windoutta me. Soo watch for that stuff.

Dude, he already won the fight.

 

[Sinister]

Chang su Ok is the korean who "devised" TKMS and TKMS is more like combat sambo if anything; it has armbars, double leg takedowns, kneebars, and various chokes like sambo/US army combatives. Now, did/does it have an evolved groundgame like combat Sambo? No, but they have added more ground moves in recent years.

I just find it interesting that I found the names of all of the teachers of TKMS, and the History of it's foundation, but nothing on this "devisor"...and what I checked were a combination of Martial Arts, AND Military databases (the kind of places where you can find Military Service Records if you become a member), but as I hinted, I'm still not done researching.

Why would a military fighting style of North Korea be listed with civilain S. Korean styles? If you notice, you don't see TKMS there also.

That would be because Military Fighting systems such as TKMS and Krav Maga are widely not considered Martial Arts. Personally I think that's stupid, but that's the norm.

I'm not trying to necessarily discredit you homie, but I'm the kind of person that if you tell me I'm wrong then I'm going to go over everything I know again and hammer out the bullshit. Unless I know for FACT I'm not the one spouting the bullshit that is. The fact that I'm willing to research this does you some justice, otherwise I'd just tell you to shut up and be on with it. lol

 

[Gregster]

That would be because Military Fighting systems such as TKMS and Krav Maga are widely not considered Martial Arts. Personally I think that's stupid, but that's the norm.

Well, most people don't think of boxing as a martial art. Yet it's an organized system of striking with its' own distinct techniques, which predates quite a few "martial arts," and I think most of us can agree that a skilled boxer can take someone apart just as fast and just as soundly as a "mertial artist."

 

[Sinister]

Abso-fricken-lutely.

 

[aaron_mag]

Well, most people don't think of boxing as a martial art. Yet it's an organized system of striking with its' own distinct techniques, which predates quite a few "martial arts," and I think most of us can agree that a skilled boxer can take someone apart just as fast and just as soundly as a "mertial artist."

I think the reason that most people don't think of boxing and wrestling as martial arts is because of the attitude of the practitioners. By that I mean most of them think of it as a sport. And all sports have distinct techiques. No one would argue whether football and lacrosse are sports/martial arts, but there are certainly very specific skills to drill. And just like a 'martial art' you live and breathe the stuff when you are involved in it. Working on your cradle, practicing on the wall, etc. etc. Plus there is philosophical aspects. Icons who have memorable quotes which motivate you. Etc, etc.

But the difference with a sport is that you have your competitive years, you have offseason, and you retire. The emphasis is on the competitive aspect of it. Once those prime years pass for you then you retire.

This, btw, is also what makes them so effective as fighting styles. Emphasis is on training for competition. Conditioning is extremely intense. It is man versus man. If you aren't pushing yourself to the limit than you can be sure your opponent is.

Martial arts, on the other hand, has a more long term view. Ideally you are doing your art until you have a heart attack and keel over. The training is this constant and steady stream. You don't really change it to get ready for a particular fight.

Obviously there is overlap. And I think it is changing. As more people realize the therapeutic benefit of punching a heavy bag it becomes more of a lifetime thing. And more wrestlers are joining wrestling clubs and such in their adult years because they just like to wrestle. So the difference between the two is blurring...

 

[Sinister]

And that's a good thing. Personally I don't think there ever should have been a difference between the two. Though there is a difference say (proverbailly) between a Soldier and a Warrior, they have basically a unified existence that is very complimentary to each-other. I think it's the same for Martial Artists and Boxers/Wrestlers, so the long-standing fued between them is kind of pointless if you ask me.

 

[Mr.Jesus]

Alright guys heres the deal, last month I attended a local MMA show. One of the fights had a TKD guy fight a boxer. The TKD guy ko'ed the boxer with a kick to the body, just like the kick GSP hit Matt Hughes with (dont know names of kicks). After every match theres a post fight interview and the TKD guy said, "Who says TKD is useless? I'll fight any boxer and knock him out". With me being a boxer I was kinda pissed. Well anyway, my brother's friend is the guy who sets up the fights at the local MMA show that I went to and last week he asked me if I wanted to be the next guy he fights. I accepted.

So my question is, is there any TKD guys in MMA? And what should I expect when I fight this guy. Its gonna be my first MMA fight.

Thanks.

i ve done tkd all my life. one thng that i hate when i fight someone is fakes. in tkd when someone fakes we usually go for it. go for it as in we flinch or if your a fucking retard, you kick. fake, then attack.fake for the legs. then come up for an attack. works for me when i fight boxers.

 

[Evil Eye Gouger]

I can't believe this got bumped...

But since it got bumped, I'll point out that we did armbars and leglocks in TKD today.

And, no, this is not cross-training.

 

[Brand Nizzle]

Alright guys heres the deal, last month I attended a local MMA show. One of the fights had a TKD guy fight a boxer. The TKD guy ko'ed the boxer with a kick to the body, just like the kick GSP hit Matt Hughes with (dont know names of kicks). After every match theres a post fight interview and the TKD guy said, "Who says TKD is useless? I'll fight any boxer and knock him out". With me being a boxer I was kinda pissed. Well anyway, my brother's friend is the guy who sets up the fights at the local MMA show that I went to and last week he asked me if I wanted to be the next guy he fights. I accepted.

So my question is, is there any TKD guys in MMA? And what should I expect when I fight this guy. Its gonna be my first MMA fight.

Thanks.

GET in close and box with him, short range, clinch, TAKE HIM DOWN!!1 Don't play his game, which is to TKO you from a distance.

 

[TheHighlander]

TKO you from a distance? I need to see that!

(sorry, couldn't resist. Especially when you are responding to an old thread with advice that was already given)