TKD groundfighting????

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by possenti, Jul 21, 2005.

  1. possenti

    possenti I knew all the rules-but the rules did not know me

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2005
    Messages:
    5,212
    Likes Received:
    101
    Location:
    The Lower Road
    I just got back from watching my daughter's Tae Kwon Do class. She's taking the black belt class in preparation to test for hers in October. The instructor was speaking to the black belts about some "changes" in the school. She went over a few minor time changes and other things, then she said, "We'll also be adding some groundfighting drills and techniques to our regular classes for all belts."

    WTF? My ears perked up at hearing this, and my daughter glanced at me and smiled. I'm not sure how to take this news. There's several outcomes:

    This TKD school is a major McDojo, with many "franchises" around the country. Perhaps the Masters at the top realized that they just can't get by by flailing arms and legs into the air anymore? Good. Hopefully, they'll teach some solid techniques geared more towards self-defense than sport - and I hope they spar alot.

    I have no idea who will teach this. Will they bring in some BJJ guys, or just send some high-ranking black belts to a weekend crash-course seminar? Then they come back and teach their new magical skills to everyone else?

    Perhaps, "ground fighting" isn't grappling at all. Maybe it's the same as TKD stand-up, but only the kicks/punches/blocks will be directed upwards? Uggh. I hope they don't make forms (katas) out of this...

    I didn't have a chance to ask anyone afterwards, but I will find out soon. My daughter's 12, and I tolerate her taking TKD classes because she loves it so much. I don't bash it in front of her, but I have explained to her that she needs to learn grappling, and I'm starting to ease her into it. I plan on taking her to a BJJ club that I just joined in a couple of months.
    There's a girl there she could learn a lot from.

    So, had anyone ever heard of TKD teaching grappling? Of course, I've trained in BJJ off-hours at places that were TKD schools, but never heard of it being incorporated into TKD itself.

    Opinions?
     
  2. DirectDrive

    DirectDrive Black Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2003
    Messages:
    6,544
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    outskirts of life
    i'm imagining it'll be just drill and it'll be uing TKD type things...... like shimp out and kick with a snap kick, but it probably won't. let us know when you find out.
     
  3. Corey123

    Corey123 Guest

    It will probably be some Judo/TMA type drills that they will do and that's about it.


    TKD instructer: Place your arm on his chest and hit his arm down.

    Children: KIA!

    TKD instructer: Ok...ok...now I want you to grab the arm and turn around and pretend to break his arm before he falls to the ground. Please do not do this hard.




    Child 1: Ok, I think this is right....

    Child 2: *falls on ground on purpose*

    Child 1: Ok, now you try.
     
  4. JoeU1741

    JoeU1741 Yellow Belt

    Joined:
    May 12, 2005
    Messages:
    230
    Likes Received:
    0
    I could be some Hapkido "grappling" techniques. Given the lineage of both arts lots of places cover
    both so it wouldn't be a foreign concept. In which case it would be lots of joint locking techniques but not so much BJJ rolling. Either way, it will at least promote a step towards grappling work which may encourage your daughter to other arts with a more solid ground game.
     
  5. Evil Eye Gouger

    Evil Eye Gouger Gold Belt

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2004
    Messages:
    19,583
    Likes Received:
    5
    There is no groundfighting in TKD. There are some sweeps and takedowns in self-defense type situations, standing joint locks and stuff like that, but it's not really standardised, and very few people train that very hard.

    What does happen often, though, is that TKD classes are mixed with Hapkido, which is a Korean art descended from Daito-Ryu Aiki-Jujutsu, and has Jujutsu and Aikido influences. Depending on the lineage, these guys can do a lot of groundfighting.

    I have no idea what this school plans to do, though.

    And, I don't want to hijack a thread, but I think TKD is great for kids, especially girls. She can always get into other arts later, but right now, she gets to do a martial art together with kids her age, which is great, and she'll get a good foundation for other martial arts later. But that's my opinion.
     
  6. Cornsloth

    Cornsloth Orange Belt

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2005
    Messages:
    289
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Arlington Heights, Illinios
    A friend of mine whom I do BJJ classes with took TKD years ago, he has said that his instuctor taught some basic ground work. Things like mount, closed guard, and simple passes.

    In only slightly related news my instructor informed my friend that his old teacher was teaching BJJ, and that it is super weak-ass.
     
  7. possenti

    possenti I knew all the rules-but the rules did not know me

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2005
    Messages:
    5,212
    Likes Received:
    101
    Location:
    The Lower Road
    I agree. The "foundation" thing is true also. I'd say 90% of people I've rolled with in BJJ have studied other arts. Why is that? Most people just don't seem to jump right into grappling without doing something else first.
     
  8. Evil Eye Gouger

    Evil Eye Gouger Gold Belt

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2004
    Messages:
    19,583
    Likes Received:
    5
    Well, he wasn't necessarily teaching him BJJ, he could have been teaching him techniques from Jujutsu, Judo, Hapkido, sub wrestling, or just something he picked up from street fighting.

    But it definitely wasn't TKD. There is no mount or closed guard in TKD.
     
  9. Gregster

    Gregster Black Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2003
    Messages:
    6,090
    Likes Received:
    13
    Location:
    In front of my computer, it seems
    What EEG said: TKD has zero groundfighting. A proper TKD course of study has plenty of Hapkido, and teaches throws, jointlocks, and submissions while standing.

    If this was a legit school, I might presume that he's brought in some genuine BJJ talent to augment his curriculum and/or try and cash in on the increased popularity of BJJ (Jack Buttarini Karate her in Knoxville imported a Brazilian champ to teach).

    If it's a "major McDojo," I'm guessing someone watched some tapes, or got enough half-assed instruction in grappling to fake it convincingly.
     
  10. That's complete bullshit, they're not gonna teach ground work in TKD. Probably butt scoot position up kicks.
     
  11. Shadowdean

    Shadowdean Fear the Menanite!!!

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2002
    Messages:
    1,936
    Likes Received:
    14
    Before I predjudge, why not just tell us how it goes...Hapkido has some ground work...or it could be judo (and FYI...judo has Katas *gasp*)....it really depends on how the school approaches it - the fact its a TKD based school means nothing...btw, if you really dislike that particular school, why not find her a better TKD school?
     
  12. possenti

    possenti I knew all the rules-but the rules did not know me

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2005
    Messages:
    5,212
    Likes Received:
    101
    Location:
    The Lower Road
    I don't dislike the school. The instructors are great. My daughter has a few friends there, and they learn cool kicks together. It's a good art to start out in. It's the same organization that I belonged to when I was a kid. -But it's still Tae Kwon Do. I'd rather roll in BJJ than learn forms, or do JKD or MT for standup.

    I'm looking forward to seeing what this groundfighting course involves, and I'll report back with anything notable - good or bad.
     
  13. ARIS

    ARIS Brown Belt

    Joined:
    May 7, 2002
    Messages:
    3,190
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Greece
    TKD Groundfighting??? lolololol
     
  14. aaron_mag

    aaron_mag Purple Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2005
    Messages:
    1,703
    Likes Received:
    15
    So how long did you belong to it when you were a kid? You don't seem to respect the art that much for someone who practiced it.

    I teach TKD to many kids myself and we don't have groundfighting. I'm learning quite a bit from the Sambo classes I've been taking. But I have no plans on incorporating it into my class and I would be very concerned as a parent to hear that they plan to do this...

    Why? It all comes down to specialization. Do one thing, and do it well. I'm guessing the class is an hour to an hour and fifteen minutes, right? Speaking from experience it is very hard to fit in all the stuff you want to get in for that time in a normal class. If I were to suddenly add 15 minutes of submission training into it something else has to be sacrificed. So they end up being crappy at both submissions AND kicking. If I had extra time to burn I'd try to put in more bag work.

    My goal in a kids class is to have them all red faced and out of breath as possible at the end of it. If a kid really has a desire to cross train in grappling they can take a Judo/Sambo/Jiu Jitsu class where they can give it the attention it deserves instead of trying to jam it in as 'another thing we do'.

    One final off the subject point... So many people seem to think that people like me <i>want</i> to teach kids. Like we make all this money at it or something. I make plenty of money at my day job and I'd much rather be working out myself in TKD or Sambo on nights I have to teach. Most of us do it because we learned it as children ourselves and someone has to be willing to pass it on to the next generation the way we were taught (with the emphasis on sweat and hard techniques). So I hope that you appreciate your daughters instructors because they probably wish they could be working out themselves over being an under-paid baby sitter!!! :D
     
  15. Steeltwo

    Steeltwo Green Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2003
    Messages:
    1,366
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    WisCOWsin
    exactly

    you'd

    it's not about
    you'd

    it's about
    her'd



    i'm sure it is some hapikdo(sp?) stuff. That and TKD seems to work well together.
     
  16. FStep

    FStep Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2005
    Messages:
    2,886
    Likes Received:
    31
    Location:
    Miami
    i took karate when i was really young and they advertised as having ground work as part of the training ... all that this ground work involved was basically how to get up after being knocked down into a retarted position you could never be in while the opponent is stomping you in slow motion

    and yea i tried to put all that to use when i started bjj and let me tell you it does NOT work
     
  17. ArTofF16hT1ng

    ArTofF16hT1ng Bånned Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2001
    Messages:
    12,606
    Likes Received:
    362
    Location:
    Beijing, China
  18. mappgh

    mappgh White Belt

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2003
    Messages:
    133
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Pittsburgh
    I trained in TKD for about eight years at two different schools, the first school was very traditional, no groundwork at all but the second was like a completely different style, we did a little groundwork, just some basic stuff like mounts, guards, basic passess etc....which ultimately led me to BJJ
     
  19. Guest

    Wtf, TKD groundfighting. Is it when you lie on the floor like Curly (from the three stooges) and run in a circle? "Woop woop woop!"
     
  20. El Gato

    El Gato Green Belt

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2005
    Messages:
    1,180
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    New England
    I bet her Instuctors cross train in BJJ or bought a series of tapes on it ....At one BJJ school I trained at The Instuctor had a instuctors training course , It was geared toward teaching Instuctors from other styles the basics of BJJ .All the guys that took the course were TKD Black Belts (About 12 of them ). These guys went back to their schools and taught the basics to their students (the course was about 6 months long ). The out come was four or five of the TKD Instuctors became regular students because they loved the ground game , and some of their students joined up as well cause it was something they thought they'd use in real life .....It's good to be a well rounded Martial Artist . It won't hurt to learn a little ground basics , it could come in handy on the street .
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.