Media Title defences be damned, Khabib is the GOAT because he's the BEST to ever do it. (Long Read)

[Islam Imamate]

Jon Jones does not have 17 consecutive wins, he has 13 and then a NC because he was pulsing. Hate to nitpick but to me its an important detail.

As far as the conversation goes I actually think Khabib's GOAT status is a bit inflated as I agree that he needed to win more title fights to get there. Not as many as the others since he fought at LW where the competition is tougher, I think if he had five title defenses I'd be more willing to put his name among the likes of Jones, GSP, Fedor, and so on.

In my book the GOAT is GSP since he avenged all his losses, won 12 title fights in arguably the toughest division, won a belt up a weight class, and never popped for roids. I'd have Aldo at #2, kind of surprised more people don't rate Aldo as highly but I guess he does have some bad losses in the last few years.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Pretty much no sport ignores tenure and volume of accomplishment when determining GOAT career.

You can do so if you wish, since the argument/definition is subjective, but it's definitely way outside the norm to do so.

99 percent of the time, it's some combination of tenure and peak/prime performance/dominance.

Khabib maxes out the scale at the latter, but generally falters at the former compared to a number of "Rushmore Fighters" to an extent his case for GOAT is hard to justify (to me, personally).

But he's the man regardless!

Yeah that's the strength of Khabib's resume, his pure dominance when we did see him. He was undefeated but beyond that he was also never knocked down or cut IIRC which is insane, I don't think any other UFC champion can say that. But I agree, he needed a few more wins as champ to cement his claim as GOAT.

 

[drom141]

The nature of the GOAT discussion is that it is subjective. Okamoto is being clear about what he is considering.

That said, I don't know that according to his criterion Khabib should be the goat. Top of my head, Cejudo's back to back victories over MM, TJ, Moraes and Cruz is p4p a better stretch than Khabib's (Conor-Poirier-Gaethje)

Name wise yes, but Khabib made it look easy

 

[Volador]

Of course. Look, this was all about that Okamoto's quote in the OP that Khabib has the greatest 3 fights stretch in history.

I am/was not making the point that Cejudo is greater than Khabib or that he had a better career.

Yeah, I understand. It's all pretty debatable anyway. I added a paragraph to clarify why I think his 3-fight run is better that CCC's.

But I agree that it doesn't really matter, and that it's a strange metric to use, because 3 consecutive fights is way too arbitrary and there's too many other things that matter. Why would it matter if they are consecutive or not, I don't know. The order of the fights is pretty irrelevant compared to the amount of total top wins, total defenses, overall dominance, etc.

 

[youllneverwalkalone]

Jon Jones does not have 17 consecutive wins, he has 13 and then a NC because he was pulsing. Hate to nitpick but to me its an important detail.

As far as the conversation goes I actually think Khabib's GOAT status is a bit inflated as I agree that he needed to win more title fights to get there. Not as many as the others since he fought at LW where the competition is tougher, I think if he had five title defenses I'd be more willing to put his name among the likes of Jones, GSP, Fedor, and so on.

In my book the GOAT is GSP since he avenged all his losses, won 12 title fights in arguably the toughest division, won a belt up a weight class, and never popped for roids. I'd have Aldo at #2, kind of surprised more people don't rate Aldo as highly but I guess he does have some bad losses in the last few years.

Really good, reasonable points.

Regarding Aldo, besides the fact that many current fans weren't around during his prime, I really think it is that McGregor loss. That KO is so iconic and that sequence being played over and over again, everywhere, for years on end, has got to have been damaging for fans' perception of Aldo, which is a fucking shame cause he really was great.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Really good, reasonable points.

Regarding Aldo, besides the fact that many current fans weren't around during his prime, I really think it is that McGregor loss. That KO is so iconic and that sequence being played over and over again, everywhere, for years on end, has got to have been damaging for fans' perception of Aldo, which is a fucking shame cause he really was great.

IIRC Aldo has a 15 fight win streak under Zuffa if you combine his WEC and UFC runs which is pretty incredible, especially since most of those were as champion.

I also think Max is underrated in the GOAT talks. He's young and has a lot more losses than other GOAT candidates at his age but he already has a 13 fight win streak and two wins over fellow GOAT contender Aldo. He only had three title defenses but he had a champion's strength of schedule well before he won the undisputed title(five ranked wins according to the UFC rankings IIRC) because McGregor was holding up the FW title.

 

[youllneverwalkalone]

IIRC Aldo has a 15 fight win streak under Zuffa if you combine his WEC and UFC runs which is pretty incredible, especially since most of those were as champion.

I also think Max is underrated in the GOAT talks. He's young and has a lot more losses than other GOAT candidates at his age but he already has a 13 fight win streak and two wins over fellow GOAT contender Aldo. He only had three title defenses but he had a champion's strength of schedule well before he won the undisputed title(five ranked wins according to the UFC rankings IIRC) because McGregor was holding up the FW title.

Looks like McGregor is a serial killer when it comes to potential goat's legacies. Aldo, Max and even Khabib even though he lost to him b/c if Khabib had fought Alvarez instead of Conor he would likely have had a couple more defenses to his record.

 

[ultramanhyata]

I find when people talk about Khabib's resume, they really over exagerrate the talent level of Gaethje,

Agree. Show me another guy in modern UFC history who fought for a title and who is on record stating "I choose not to train grappling."

 

[TR1]

I have never heard anything remotely interesting or intriguing out of Okomoto's mouth.

 

[Islam Imamate]

I find when people talk about Khabib's resume, they really over exagerrate the talent level of Gaethje, I like him, he's a solid fighter but 10 years from now I don't think we'd all be talking about him being one of the solid wins to define if someone is GOAT or not.

If we're talking about Gaethje in a seperate convo that doesn't include Khabib, most people would say he's a great fighter but definitely beatable.

Going into the fight with Khabib, Gaethje had finished four top 10 fighters in a row including Tony who was on a 12 fight win streak. He had crazy momentum going into that title fight and he put up a decent fight too.

If anything I think the Conor win is overrated but the Al win is underrated. People point out that Al was ranked #11 at the time but in his next fight after Khabib he beat Lee and jumped into the top 10 again.

 

[jeff7b9]

Pretty much no sport ignores tenure and volume of accomplishment when determining GOAT career.

You can do so if you wish, since the argument/definition is subjective, but it's definitely way outside the norm to do so.

99 percent of the time, it's some combination of tenure and peak/prime performance/dominance.

Khabib maxes out the scale at the latter, but generally falters at the former compared to a number of "Rushmore Fighters" to an extent his case for GOAT is hard to justify (to me, personally).

But he's the man regardless!

This

For example- top 3 Boxing HWs, obviously a sport with a longer history, not necessarily in order as that is subjective, so give or take:


Joe Louis, Ali, Larry Holmes, Lennox Lewis

Lennox has 14 title defenses, all the rest have 20+

Sustained success at the highest level, along with strength of opposition, is generally the metrics by which the GOATs are measured.

Hard to justify a guy with 3 title defenses when there are guys in double digits. Even if those three are very impressive, because it doesn’t hold up the “sustained” metric.

 

[Maripucci]

Adversity. He hasn't faced it we have no idea how he would handle it.

 

[tehMoose]

OP makes everyday a thread about Khabib being the GOAT

STFU already he's not even close to being the GOAT

He fought only skinny featherweight strikers and the moment the division got a strong wrestler with KO power he run from the sport. <45>

Conor is not even a .500 fighter at LW and that's his best win LOL

Trash resume compared to other GOAT candidates, it's disrespectful to add Khabib next to Fedor, Jones, Silva, GSP...

 

[Kwic]

GOAT shill.

 

[FlyingDeathKick]

I mean if we use dumb criteria we can make anybody the GOAT, like how Lobov is the GOAT. Amount of wins against top competition and title defenses are much more important than whether or not somebody has lost. Defend 10x and see if you're still undefeated. It's completely different. If Holloway never lost and never fought Dustin at 155, won the 14 straight fights at 145 with his 3 denefses... That wouldn't make him the GOAT. It's funny because he won 14 straight at 145 and isn't even the 145lb GOAT but Khabib is the GOAT because of his 13 fight winstreak? Gtfoh lol

 

[tehMoose]

Amosov is the GOAT

25-0

AND BEAT WRESTLERS UNLIKE KHABIB

 

[FlyingDeathKick]

OP makes everyday a thread about Khabib being the GOAT

STFU already he's not even close to being the GOAT

He fought only skinny featherweight strikers and the moment the division got a strong wrestler with KO power he run from the sport. <45>

Conor is not even a .500 fighter at LW and that's his best win LOL

Trash resume compared to other GOAT candidates, it's disrespectful to add Khabib next to Fedor, Jones, Silva, GSP...

You're being a little biased here. You aren't far off tho. Not only the wrestler but Oliveira, Oliveira should be getting a title shot... MJ, Barboza, Iaquinta, Poirier, Mcgregor, Gaethje.. All his top wins aside from RDA are strikers. 4 of those mentioned have fought at 145 meanwhile Khabib nearly dies everytime he makes 155 and has missed weight twice.

 

[The UFC Brander Collector]

Cheat
Cheat

Then clean apart from Royce

 

[markys00]

TS has more losses on sherdog than khabib has wins lmao.

Guys obsessed

 

[sampuncher]

Going into the fight with Khabib, Gaethje had finished four top 10 fighters in a row including Tony who was on a 12 fight win streak. He had crazy momentum going into that title fight and he put up a decent fight too.

If anything I think the Conor win is overrated but the Al win is underrated. People point out that Al was ranked #11 at the time but in his next fight after Khabib he beat Lee and jumped into the top 10 again.

See I think the RDA one is the most underrated, purely because RDA literally went from that loss to winning the belt, I feel its often overlooked completely.