Tip for Judoka: Judo not Rando

[Jimmy Cerra]

Here's a tip to any judoka in the area. I've rolled with several of them around here. Some tap me, and that's good. But all judoka grapple too hard. They use power and try for submissions from bad positions when rolling.

This is judo not rando. Learn from your BJJ brethren and flow with your partner. You don't learn anything powering through newaza. Do you force stuff in nagewaza? Of course not (most of the time)! Then do so on the ground as well. Use more ju in your do when grappling on the ground.

The time limit in groundwork is not an excuse. It is not a time limit, but a progress limit. This doesn't mean stall. You can make progress and still be loose as a goose. Be smart with your technique on the ground as well as standing.

Master Kano said the principle of Maximum Efficiency in Use of Mind and Body applies in many situations. Don't forget about it on the ground even as you take it to heart when standing. Please don't spaz out!!!

 

[beatdownvictim]

I'll drink to that! I'm a judoka and i'll be the first to admit that i've been guilty of using brute force. I'll keep that in mind....... my instructor keeps telling me that i'd better concentrate on technique cuz the day that i fight someone stronger i'll be screwed.

 

[Waxwingslain]

柔道 not 乱道?

 

[azjudoboxer**]

Here's a tip to any judoka in the area. I've rolled with several of them around here. Some tap me, and that's good. But all judoka grapple too hard. They use power and try for submissions from bad positions when rolling.

This is judo not rando. Learn from your BJJ brethren and flow with your partner. You don't learn anything powering through newaza. Do you force stuff in nagewaza? Of course not (most of the time)! Then do so on the ground as well. Use more ju in your do when grappling on the ground.

The time limit in groundwork is not an excuse. It is not a time limit, but a progress limit. This doesn't mean stall. You can make progress and still be loose as a goose. Be smart with your technique on the ground as well as standing.

Master Kano said the principle of Maximum Efficiency in Use of Mind and Body applies in many situations. Don't forget about it on the ground even as you take it to heart when standing. Please don't spaz out!!!

Thats the problem my school has with most Judo Clubs, they practice what my instructor calls "Knucklehead Judo" they muscle everything. We use as little power as possible, in fact we often do 35-40 minutes of drills so were tired before we Randori. We emphasize Maximum Efficiency, Minimum Effort as much as possible

 

[Balto]

Thats the problem my school has with most Judo Clubs, they practice what my instructor calls "Knucklehead Judo" they muscle everything. We use as little power as possible, in fact we often do 35-40 minutes of drills so were tired before we Randori. We emphasize Maximum Efficiency, Minimum Effort as much as possible

Yeah, I've run into Knucklehead Judo practice constantly during newaza.

For example, last night I was paired with a black belt for newaza randori. He had at least a 100 lb weight advantage on me (very large guy). He charged into my guard, and used all of his weight and strength to stack me as hard as possible. This eventually got him past to kesagatame, at which point he again used all of his strength to muscle my arm in between his legs for a submission.

This whole process took about a minute. I told him "Nice armlock" and prepared to restart. He couldn't restart though because he was so gassed from using all of his strength for a minute that he was unable to continue. I ended up sitting out the rest of the randori match because he was lying on the floor trying to catch his breath. Personally, I think that is a little sad for a black belt.

I just find it funny that I am always reminded in standing randori to relax and not stiff arm. I really make a conscious effort to do this every class, and I think I have been improving. However, when I relax during the groundwork, the other judoka use almost entirely strength and don't seem to see the connection between groundwork relaxation and standing relaxation.

 

[colinm]

i've definitely noticed a difference in feel between judo and bjj guys when i'm training....the judo guys are sometimes very stiff and almost nervous....not all of course. my theory is that judoka just get used to throwing really hard for ippon and take the same attitude to the ground game. however, the setup to the throw is always very smooth and technical....go figure.

 

[muerteverde]

Funny, I noticed just the opposite when I trained judo (after training BJJ). The judoaks were much slower, less agressive and gentle on the ground (except for 2 high belts who were quite explosive). They trained to go gentle and flow with it, but were unsure of what to do on the ground, as they rarely trained there. Also, that judo team didn't do much randori, especialy on the ground, so they lacked experience being agressive and resisting - they were used to a their opponents just going along with what they did.

 

[Q mystic]

Tru dat.

Generally it should run like.....

Look to do 'great' in 2 or 3 BIG comps in a year.

Here we will say 2. It is August and a Huge Open tourny is in Jan.

Aug and Sept should be just learning new tech to refine your game. When doing randori keep it purely technical and trying out your new stuff with your old to feel a style. No need to win at randori, just long technical 'give and take' matches. Distance running and trad strength.

Oct and Nov is turn up the training intensity to add strength and speed to your new game. Insist your techs work and transition when they don't during randori. Interval running and heavier weights with sport specific moves. If going to small comp, don't worry about win, just try your stuff.

Dec is fight training month. Hi intensity/low volume. Heavy drills and randori for the win with your improved game. Wind sprinting and plyos.

Jan is the big torny. You should be close to peak in each of strength, speed, stamina, power, tech reflex etc.

 

[Sambo234]

i agree.. only judoka bb I rolled with had 25 lbs on me and was muscling everything he could.

 

[Jimmy Cerra]

柔道 not 乱道?

Yep. When you favor muscling through your opponent rather than using efficient techniques, you are following the way of chaos/rebellion. When you flail randomly like a spaz, you are a randoka. Rando is my term for the opposite of judo, and most of the time we are somewhere in the continuum between judoka and randoka.

 

[Spoonman7]

I have seen very few judo guys that didn't muscle shit when they were on the ground, a few have been smooth though. Most times their guard passing is not technical they just grab the gi pants and throw the legs to one side.

 

[KObrawler]

I agree with the thread starter. After rolling with some judokas it seems they are a little more jerky and stiff in their motions. Using less technique and more strength. I have been tapped by judokas before but they didnt gain it as smooth as in BJJ class. You have to remember though that in judo, once they go to the ground they arnt always looking for a tap. It takes strength to pin someone and many may be used to going for this.

 

[deadlyshaolin]

The thread starter definitely has a valid point, but that being said, I also would like to point out the importance of practicing "hard" -- meaning, exerting full effort just as if practice were real competition or a fight.

The reason I make this point is because in general, wrestlers have better conditioning than judokas, and the main reason behind this (IMO) is that they train harder/roll harder than judo players do.

 

[Q mystic]

The thread starter definitely has a valid point, but that being said, I also would like to point out the importance of practicing "hard" -- meaning, exerting full effort just as if practice were real competition or a fight.

The reason I make this point is because in general, wrestlers have better conditioning than judokas, and the main reason behind this (IMO) is that they train harder/roll harder than judo players do.

Elite judoka and wrestlers both train as hard as you can before breakdown. How can one train harder than the other.

 

[chdnny]

Elite judoka and wrestlers both train as hard as you can before breakdown. How can one train harder than the other.

i just think with the gi, strength is not needed because the technique side of it is increased a lot... nogi=more cardio because less technique is available right? so get by with a stupid amount of cardio in wrestling, where judo stupid cardio is good too but technique will carry you right?.... i dunno.......




i noticed it too.... especially when i got pinned i am so used to chillin when im on bottom lol, forgot by staying there it would = losing the match
but me getting slammed while i got the choke percentage went up

 

[Q mystic]

i just think with the gi, strength is not needed because the technique side of it is increased a lot... nogi=more cardio because less technique is available right? so get by with a stupid amount of cardio in wrestling, where judo stupid cardio is good too but technique will carry you right?.... i dunno.......




i noticed it too.... especially when i got pinned i am so used to chillin when im on bottom lol, forgot by staying there it would = losing the match
but me getting slammed while i got the choke percentage went up

I have trained quite a bit with nats in both during team training and they train with equal intensity. Most fitness tests I have read of them are almost identical with judo slightly more power endurance and wrestling slightly more strentgh endurance.

Good point regarding gi tho as I do feel that you can stall more with one but never actually noticed that made it easier in comp......and I loved to stall:icon_lol: . Have maxed out in both sports during comps and have felt equally sick after each.

The point is that in any grappling sport at speed like judo, wrestling and bjj you have to be in absolute tip top shape to excel.

 

[chdnny]

I have trained quite a bit with nats in both during team training and they train with equal intensity. Most fitness tests I have read of them are almost identical with judo slightly more power endurance and wrestling slightly more strentgh endurance.

Good point regarding gi tho as I do feel that you can stall more with one but never actually noticed that made it easier in comp......and I loved to stall:icon_lol: . Have maxed out in both sports during comps and have felt equally sick after each.

The point is that in any grappling sport at speed like judo, wrestling and bjj you have to be in absolute tip top shape to excel.

o for sure, to excel you need to have that dope cardio you know. thats why im not gonna excel

 

[Q mystic]

o for sure, to excel you need to have that dope cardio you know. thats why im not gonna excel

whats 'dope cardio'?

 

[chdnny]

you know... dope cardio...

like when someone has crazy cardiovascular abilities and they be showing fools up by running backwards and running a mile in a few minutes backwards, and a dude goes like,"Damn, that guy has some dope cardio man!"

lol

jk, just a term i use a lot when i see someone with very good cardio

 

[Q mystic]

you know... dope cardio...

like when someone has crazy cardiovascular abilities and they be showing fools up by running backwards and running a mile in a few minutes backwards, and a dude goes like,"Damn, that guy has some dope cardio man!"

lol

jk, just a term i use a lot when i see someone with very good cardio

I see. I thought you meant 'roiders.