Tiger Schulman's style - is it legit or McDojo trash?

Discussion in 'Standup Technique' started by emax, Jan 2, 2015.

  1. emax

    emax Black Belt

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    Tiger Schulman's camps and striking style have been discussed a lot since he has basically been turning his karate dojo into an MMA-karate mix of sorts and so it has been called the most famous McDojo in MMA.

    I had thought the striking style he teaches is predominantly Kyokushin based and so I was wondering, is it necessarily inferior relative to what someone like Duane Ludwig or Ray Longo teaches? I know that his students, like Lyman Good and Louis Gaudinot who of course is fighting tomorrow, may be considered mediocre or downright bad by some Sherdoggers but I do think that they have gone far enough in MMA to prove that Tiger is not teaching them nothing but bullshido that doesn't work. And furthermore, they are both typically hurt by their lack of positional grappling more than striking anyway.

    So is Tiger's teaching and style less legit than what guys like Ludwig, Longo, John Hackleman and Javier Mendez teach? Could somebody who trains striking in his camp be a UFC title contender if their wrestling was as good as good or better than that of the other UFC title contenders?
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2015
  2. Grappleboxing

    Grappleboxing Brown Belt

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    I mean Tiger Schulman himself was pretty legit, but I knew the gripe with him is the reputation of the man himself and some shady business practices.

    Now to answer your question of his teaching style, that is hard to tell. Tiger Schulman's as a franchise is very spread out. You have a lot of instructors ranging from very good, to very medicore. I'm sure Tiger himself would be as legit as the guys you've mentioned if the fighters got personal time with him and their wrestling was good already.
     
  3. Paradigm

    Paradigm Gold Belt

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    did Uriah Hall start his striking training there or end up there later in his career? i know hes not there anymore but i figured he'd be one of the guys you named in the OP.
     
  4. emax

    emax Black Belt

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    i totally forgot at the time that he had trained there. But yes, I'd say he counts as one of Tiger's guys. Unfortunately, his wrestling seems to just not be there and he seems to just not have the fighter's spirit he needs. We'll have to see in his next fight if he has found it by now.
     
  5. Paradigm

    Paradigm Gold Belt

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    the guy definitely has heart...

    [​IMG]

    but lacks that killer instinct.

    i love how his corner told the doc in between rounds that it already looked like that lol.
     
  6. emax

    emax Black Belt

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    True enough. Unfortunate that Tiger seems to be having some pretty bad luck in finding a fighter for his camp whose wrestling is at the level of someone like Weidman,Hendricks, Rockhold or the Team Alpha male guys and their fighter's instinct as well. It may be that his poor business practices are somehow part of the reason why he can't. The fact that Hall's wrestling is not up to par may be a key reason why Weidman was able to finish him like that; when you have to constantly focus on avoiding the TD because your TDD defense isn't as good as your opponent's TD ability, it makes it way, way harder for you to be an effective striker and you can get clocked even by someone whose striking skills are not as good.
     
  7. Forever Changes

    Forever Changes Orange Belt

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    He started out as a legit kyokushin guy and won some tournaments. I think he was the north american champ. Sold out in the 90s then started generic mma camp based on muay thai boxer jitsu type shit. My buddy who trained there said it was too commercial or something. He's a good bjj guy so I take his word.doubt he is bringing in any inspired elements of tan.
     
  8. Magooglie

    Magooglie Steel Belt

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    What's the state of his fight team? It seemed like he was doing well with his local guys, Lyman Good was Bellator champ, a few guys in the UFC/TUF, Laura D'Auguste was doing well, but never really took off getting outside talent into the team to bring it to the next level.
     
  9. Jukai

    Jukai Silver Belt

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    I'm a very relatively biased person on this subject given my own dojo, but I will say that his dojos are much closer to point sparring than anything related to Kyokushin. MMA is a new thing. They jumped on Tae Bo, too.
     
  10. Azam

    Azam Brown Belt

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    The style of fighting that Schulman has an extensive background is Kyokushin Karate. While he states that he was a North American Kyokushin Champion for 6 years - this is extremely difficult to verify. I'm not to familiar with what the tournament structure was like in the 70's but if North American Kyokushin competition was in weight categories, it is very possible that he was indeed x6 champ - but my initiative tells me that it was probably only open weight categories in that time and with guys like Willie Williams & co who were training in that era - it is extremely unlikely.

    Hard to say what his accomplishments are in Kyokushin.


    HOWEVER, I can say that he definitely is a credible legit martial artist with tournament experience in Kyokushin (knockdown karate competition) - how long he competed and his accolades in it are difficult to answer and maybe Tiger would have to speak for himself there - but there is no doubt in my mind he's very legit.


    I think Tiger Schulman gets a bad rep because even though he might be very legit - his schools might not necessarily have the training quality that he enforces in his own dojo ---- it's what happens when you go commercial. Make more money but at the likelihood that you can't maintain high quality instruction unless you personally vet instructors yourself - however given that it is a franchise - I doubt that happens, this is why people give it the mcdojo status.


    But as for Schulman himself - very legit: Found a youtube clip of a collection of his fights in Kyokushin karate under knockdown competition:




    Legit. Remember that is 70's footage.


    Edit: He competed in the 1st world Kyokushin open weight tournament - don't know how well he did though.
     
  11. Forever Changes

    Forever Changes Orange Belt

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    Azam why do you note it is 70s. Is he doing things unusual for the period?
     
  12. Forever Changes

    Forever Changes Orange Belt

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    [YT]wn7B7aVZ9E0[/YT]
     
  13. Forever Changes

    Forever Changes Orange Belt

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    Azam why do you note it is 70s. Is he doing things unusual for the period?
     
  14. Azam

    Azam Brown Belt

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    Just like most combat sports - there was a gradual evolution of knockdown karate. The knockdown karate of the 70's and to some degree the 80's was fought at kickboxing-ish range & grabbing was allowed - personally feel those guys back then were better rounded as martial artists. Then eventually Kyokushin competition evolved, got more streamlined, rules adapted and so did the application of many techniques as the distance became 'knockdown distance.'

    Just wanted to input by this is the 70's - for anyone who holds it against him for knockdown (some people like that), that while I love knockdown karate, many of the problems with it now didn't exist in his time.
     
  15. shinkyoku

    shinkyoku Brown Belt

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    schulman himself is legit. What his schools teach, not so much -or rather some are good, most are very questionable.
    At one point schulmans karate was a poster example of mcdojo-ism. Belts sold without any skill required, long contracts, every mcdojo trick you ever heard of. When he went into MMA, he hired several established names as posterboys for his "brand" despite them not really having anything to do with him except being on his payroll.
     
  16. Jukai

    Jukai Silver Belt

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    And just because, UFC 182 having traditional Karate beat Tiger Schulman's nonsense was rather pleasing.

    [​IMG]
     
  17. devante

    devante Silver Belt

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    to be fair, horiguchi said he considered gaudinot a good/very good karateka, his words not mine.
     
  18. Jukai

    Jukai Silver Belt

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    Dat humble Karate spirit, tho.
     
  19. MB5161

    MB5161 Orange Belt

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    Every time I pass a martial arts school these days I see a sign for MMA training. One exception is the TKD school my nephew went to. His instructor was an old school Korean who wanted no part of MMA training or jiu jitsu. On the other hand, there is a McDojo around the corner from me whose chief instructor, in his own words, "did some MMA training here and there," even though he has a legitimate Kenpo background.

    I've seen the way he trains the young kids and the absolutely ridiculous way he lets them spar. Kids will grow up with brain damage for sure. Lawsuit waiting to happen.
     

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