Throwing technique?

[A Muse of Fire]

Heh heh heh........ now this is where you should check your sources.

Anyway, just a figurehead anyway. Not like the Emp ever had anything to do with martial arts.

I dunno what you mean by this. The original org was part of the Japanese. government, which is why it was disbanded. They trained the military and the while the royal family had no practical power, they were thought to be in charge by most Japanese and was seen as divine. That changed after the war though..

EDIT: I guess you are nitpicking on my choice of words. I should of said the Royal family or the Emperors family is affiliated with the new org. But like I said the Royal family was and still is very respected in Japan. Still makes no sense to make light of the Emperor's connection to the old org.

That connection is why it had so much influence and respect and is why it was disbanded. The first DNBK trained soldiers to kill people, it was not a sports club.

 

[A Muse of Fire]

Apologies.


Since you are not allowed to break people in sport competitions, joint locks are generally frowned upon. It is a sport, not a fight to the death. But that merely means you'll avoid using techniques that can seriously hurt people. The only reason we can throw people is because we have padded mats. Without them...

Plus, as you wrote, they are hard to use against experienced people, so why bother attempting them?

Olympic judo wants to differentiate itself from Olympic wrestling, and so judo techniques that mimic wrestling techniques aren't allowed, but you'll still learn them from teachers who teach everything for the sake of completion. Sort of matches what I wrote in the above quote huh?

As for techniques falling out of style and such... Again fits what I wrote in the above quote doesn't it?

But at this point it appears that I mistook what you wrote. You weren't actually saying that seoinage should be done with the uke thrown over your head to make it land harder. So all this crap about standards is silly on my part.

So, I apologize for reading what you wrote wrong.

Apology accepted.
I am very interested in Japanese culture and history, as well as old wrestling and boxing. I like to know the history of this sort if thing and how it changed etc I don't simply train for comp

 

[QingTian]

There are a lot of weirdos in martial arts. Usually joining some fringe organization is a sign of that. If that's not the case, great.

You will just have to decide for yourself as you progress. As you train more and travel elsewhere, you'll see the bigger picture.

 

[A Muse of Fire]

There are a lot of weirdos in martial arts. Usually joining some fringe organization is a sign of that. If that's not the case, great.

You will just have to decide for yourself as you progress. As you train more and travel elsewhere, you'll see the bigger picture.

I actually train at several places. I box and wrestle too anf have done both off and on since highschool.

Any way did you read the article from fightland? What did you hink of it..

 

[QingTian]

I didn't think the article was that interesting to be honest. It's not the technique that is important, but just knowing your body and your opponent. You get that through fighting experience. Once you master one art you can add other techniques easily.

It's all the same to me. It's just a matter of hard work and trial and error. That is why I find "pre-war" Judo irksome. It makes it sound like they know something different when there isn't anything different.

 

[A Muse of Fire]

I didn't think the article was that interesting to be honest. It's not the technique that is important, but just knowing your body and your opponent. You get that through fighting experience. Once you master one art you can add other techniques easily.

It's all the same to me. It's just a matter of hard work and trial and error. That is why I find "pre-war" Judo irksome. It makes it sound like they know something different when there isn't anything different.

The intent is different. Current day Olympics judo does not focua on breaking people or submissions. Do you also think mma or kickboxing isnt different than judo? Sword and knive techniques were also taught in the old days. Do you have expience with iado or kendo? Anyway you are contradicting yourself.

Did you change your mind? In the first couple posts you act like my club is different than yours. Now you are saying there is no difference in our training.

 

[magick]

The intent is different. Current day Olympics judo does not focua on breaking people or submissions.

You know why you're taught to hold onto the arm when you throw someone with an ippon seoinage?

Partly to blunt the fall and make it easier for the uke to breakfall. But mostly because it gives you incredible leverage and position over uke. Now imagine what you can do to that arm in the position you're in at the moment you threw uke.

See, the transition between using judo as an actual martial arts and sports is very minimal. Virtually all throws will HURT if done on anything besides padded mats.

That's why you need to take a number of very deliberate steps to PREVENT people from breaking each other. But, as you said, the only real difference is in intent. In sport judo you don't throw someone with the intent to hurt them and then immediately crush their arm/exposed body parts.

In an actual combat situation you can knee the individual. Stomp on their head. Break their arm. Crush their neck. There are so many avenues available.

That's why I find the concept of training judo in a combat sense misleading. You already are. The only difference is in the very minor adjustment you choose to make with the follow-through. But that follow-through/intent change is enough to seriously hurt your fellow trainees, and that isn't worth it.

 

[A Muse of Fire]

You know why you're taught to hold onto the arm when you throw someone with an ippon seoinage?

Partly to blunt the fall and make it easier for the uke to breakfall. But mostly because it gives you incredible leverage and position over uke. Now imagine what you can do to that arm in the position you're in at the moment you threw uke.

See, the transition between using judo as an actual martial arts and sports is very minimal. Virtually all throws will HURT if done on anything besides padded mats.

That's why you need to take a number of very deliberate steps to PREVENT people from breaking each other. But, as you said, the only real difference is in intent. In sport judo you don't throw someone with the intent to hurt them and then immediately crush their arm/exposed body parts.

In an actual combat situation you can knee the individual. Stomp on their head. Break their arm. Crush their neck. There are so many avenues available.

That's why I find the concept of training judo in a combat sense misleading. You already are. The only difference is in the very minor adjustment you choose to make with the follow-through. But that follow-through/intent change is enough to seriously hurt your fellow trainees, and that isn't worth it.

Yes all this is true but also the are add some attacks that are are simply not used like leg locks. Or more recently double leg tajedown. One is going to have a rough transition to other grappling arts or even mma if you dont trian for that

 

[QingTian]

The intent is different. Current day Olympics judo does not focua on breaking people or submissions. Do you also think mma or kickboxing isnt different than judo? Sword and knive techniques were also taught in the old days. Do you have expience with iado or kendo? Anyway you are contradicting yourself.

Did you change your mind? In the first couple posts you act like my club is different than yours. Now you are saying there is no difference in our training.

You have mischaracterized what I wrote.

Good luck with your training.

 

[magick]

Yes all this is true but also the are add some attacks that are are simply not used like leg locks. Or more recently double leg tajedown. One is going to have a rough transition to other grappling arts or even mma if you dont trian for that

Just because it's not allowed in competition doesn't mean that it's not used or taught in actual training of judo...

 

[A Muse of Fire]

Just because it's not allowed in competition doesn't mean that it's not used or taught in actual training of judo...

You think the majority of schools put as much emphasis teaching double leg take downs and leg locks as in things like O goshi and Uchimata?

In a couple posts before you talk about how judo is a sport and you don't train tp break people, well it is very easy to break a leg with a leg lock which is why it isn't taught much even in a rule set that allows like BJJ.

I actually think people overstate the difference between BJJ, Judo wrestling and SAMBO. Do you agree? Are these 4 things really just one thing with minor variations in region?

I sometimes wonder if BJJ shouldn't just be called Brazilian Judo. What do you think of that?

 

[magick]

You think the majority of schools put as much emphasis teaching double leg take downs and leg locks as in things like O goshi and Uchimata?

In fact they do, provided that it's not a class dedicated to competition folks and they're not teaching beginners.

I actually think people overstate the difference between BJJ, Judo wrestling and SAMBO. Do you agree? Are these 4 things really just one thing with minor variations in region?

I sometimes wonder if BJJ shouldn't just be called Brazilian Judo. What do you think of that?

They all share a great deal of similarities, but they're all fundamentally different in their viewpoints and goals.

 

[A Muse of Fire]

In fact they do, provided that it's not a class dedicated to competition folks and they're not teaching beginners.

really i find that hard to believe. You telling me that you and the other advanced players you know are as proficient with legs attacks and take downs as ashi waza or hip throws? One third of your mat time is spent doing leg locks, while the other two thirds are teaching and training for tournaments? I'm impressed.

They all share a great deal of similarities, but they're all fundamentally different in their viewpoints and goals.

Care to elaborate on this?

 

[magick]

really i find that hard to believe. You telling me that you and the other advanced players you know are as proficient with legs attacks and take downs as ashi waza or hip throws?

Given that judokas tend to have their favorite throws and train those repeatedly while they keep a passing knowledge of all the other throws, I can't really say anything about the above.

That being said, I know a number of black belts who attack the leg fairly frequently in randori if the opportunity reveals itself. They only use it against other black belts or brown belts though.

One third of your mat time is spent doing leg locks, while the other two thirds are teaching and training for tournaments? I'm impressed.

... I never said this.