Throttling Randori Intensity

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by Jimmy Cerra, Oct 21, 2005.

  1. Jimmy Cerra

    Jimmy Cerra Amateur Fighter

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    I wrestled for two years in high school (a long time ago...) and we would always go nearly full-intensity when live wrestling during practice. Since starting grappling/bjj six months ago, I've been having trouble throttling the intensity while rolling during randori. It is like I have two settings: practice-move-mode and competition-mode. I try to take it easy, but accidents sometimes happen when the other person and I have different intensities. I don't want to seriously harm anyone. (Ironic despite the nature of the sport, I know.) So how do I relax more when rolling?
     
  2. Darwinist

    Darwinist Super Simian

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    Breathe slowly and rhythmically and flow with the action. Wrestling seems to me to be quite antagonistic. You pick a position and you GO for it. In BJJ, you don
     
  3. I'm not a grappler, but from this I can infer that this is a failure of communication between you and your partner; you should ask him/her how he's gonna go (intensity) and you respond accordingly.
     
  4. Bubble Boy

    Bubble Boy Black Belt

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    I've got the same "problem." I always get pretty amped in randori, but I never lose control, or lose my temper. I just fight hard. I always respond to "let's go 70%" with "Nah, let's go 100%...safely." I don't get the whole let's just go *insert given percentage* thing. Everybodies sense of what % they're fighting at is different. Some of the 250 pound thugs I roll with think going 70% means pinching my skinny little head in a fucking vice grip. Just saying, "Let's go safe." makes a lot more sense to me.

    Something I've noticed. Nearly every black belt I've gone against goes 100% in randori.

    Frodo, I may be in the minority here, but I think you should keep your wrestling intensity. Tell yourself, "go intense, but be safe." Just don't hurt anybody.
     
  5. Darkslide632

    Darkslide632 Brown Belt

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    Train how you fight... otherwise, you're training yourself to not perform at your best.

    I had a few complaints while training at the National Judo Training Facility at UL in Lafayette, Louisiana because I "threw my Harai too hard in practice". But you know what? I throw my Harai as hard as I can in training,so that when I compete, I throw it the exact same way. And that is exactly what I told them. They told me that I should throw it differently to protect Uke during the fall, which I think is rediculous. I told them to get the fuck off the mat if they couldn't handle it and I would find someone who could.
     
  6. Kawlinz

    Kawlinz How do I change my Custom User Title?

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    Lol, don't throw so hard? I hate pussies... this is a non striking sport and people still want to whine and complain.

    Some people complain from grinding your elbow into a pressure point in their thigh... like seriously, it'll stop hurting when you open your goddamn guard.
     
  7. Bubble Boy

    Bubble Boy Black Belt

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    Are you talking randori or practice drills?
     
  8. fozzit

    fozzit Guapo Mestiso

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    Re: Jiu Jitsu
    I always train at 60% in order to efficiently work techniques and work on my game.. I never ask my partner to go my pace, so I would occasionally get injured by spazzes who are super agro (including blue belts)... I don't train for competition but when I do I up the intensity about a week before competition to try and get from my passive frame of mind to the agressive.

    Re: Judo
    My tachi waza sucks so I especially slow my game down in order to work on my setup and try to explode for the follow thru. Once my technique is where i want it to be then i'll up the intensity, but for now I am working technique. I don't believe in spazzing and strong arming and think it impedes your learning process or at least slows it down. On Ne waza, hey, I do Jiu Jitsu, I will roll with any judo belt with some level of confidence.
     
  9. Darkslide632

    Darkslide632 Brown Belt

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    Both.

    If I can find the people and I have time, I will train squared off with my Uke with another 1 or 2 people holding on his belt to keep him standing as I enter for Harai. I have still been known to know 3 people down with it. If I can't find the people to do it, or people don't want to waste the time bothering, then I will just take whoever I can find that is up for it and throw them. There was a time when I was in a rotation with 3 people working as uke, but their ukemi was just not good enough to handle more than 1 or 2 throws.

    When I was training at UL in Lafayette, we even had a nice crash pad, but they were bitching that I was throwing a stright driving Harai and coming down on their chests. THEY on the other hand were throwing their Harai in a way that had them rolling out and not landing on Uke at all... which is garbage for competition. You throw how you train, which means that if you train to roll out away from Uke, then that is how you're going to throw IN competition. I train to bury whoever I am playing against, and 9 times out of 10, if I hit you with Harai, you will remember it.

    Obviously when I am practicng drills I will enter like 9 times and throw on 10... but that throw is 110% and chances are, unless you have someone holding you up, we're going to fall on most of those entrances. That's what happens with a straight driving Harai (Or any other throw for that matter). It's pretty much impossible to remain standing.
     
  10. VampireMonk

    VampireMonk Black Belt

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    don't fight for every little thing.
    try to save energy,
    make yourself super tired, and then roll, this is the way you would be moving
    at your most efficient. you cannot use muscle.
    so try to imagine your like this all the time.
     
  11. Jimmy Cerra

    Jimmy Cerra Amateur Fighter

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    Thanks everyone! I've been trying harder to be more relaxed while rolling today. There certainly seems to be two issues:

    1. Intensity during locks. I've been trying to scale this back so I'm more in harmony with my partner. In wrestling, there are the strength-only wrestlers and the technicians. I'm trying to better balance both approaches now.

    2. Overall Intensity. I've been trying to keep this as high as usual, scaled with the experience of my partner. I agree that the intensity during randori is probably the intensity we'll have during competition. Therefore, I've been talking with my partner more so that we both know what's up.

    I appreciate all the perspectives!
     
  12. flyingknee16

    flyingknee16 Brown Belt

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    I always just let my opponent dictate the pace during sparring. If they're going to be a hardass I'll be a hardass too.
     
  13. Bubble Boy

    Bubble Boy Black Belt

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    Ok, sounds reasonable to me. But I'm still a little curious. Are you talking about an advanced class here? Training with other black belts or people at least your level or higher? Or are you describing work with lower belt levels and inexperienced people?
    It just seems odd that people in practice don't want to be thrown by you.
    Are they smaller than you? I've made decesions to not be thrown by people who out weigh me considerably AND are landing on top of me with all they're might in formal practice (not randori) and are usually lower belt levels. It's been very rare that this has happended to me, but if the guy is doing this kind of stuff (again this is VERY rare), I'll go train with someone else.
    I can't imagine your a small guy doing this to bigger training partners, but who knows.
     
  14. Darkslide632

    Darkslide632 Brown Belt

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    Generally the people I work out with are roughly my size. I am reasonably good sized (5'10", 220lbs give or take) so it certainly makes a difference with who I am working out with.

    At home there is really only 1 person I will throw like that and he is the bald guy in the judo videos I posted. While training at UL in Lafayette, I was training with people who were my size or bigger and with significant experience. Some of them competed on a national level and one of the guys who told me I threw too hard was about 3 inches taller than me and probably a good 50 or 60 pounds heavier than I am.

    As I said before, I don't have a problem with people not wanting to take the falls... I can understand it completely. However, that is their issue, not mine... just tell me that you're not up for it so I can find someone else who is, or find another way to train as hard as I do, but I am not going to turn down the intesity of my training. If I repeatedly throw bullshit throws and try to protect uke every time... then that is how I am going to throw in competition, which is not what I want.
     
  15. Dean Hamilton

    Dean Hamilton Amateur Fighter

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    I dont believe in "if you train light you'll fight light" I think thats just crazy. Im one of the bigger guys in my bjj class (about 6'1 220) and when i roll with the lighter guys... most likely even if theyre higher ranked than me and more technically skilled then i could get on top of em and force a keylock or kimura or something of that nature. And Im not trying to "dis" (lol... couldnt think of another word) the guys saying they train hard to fight hard, just stating my view.

    Ive gotten tapped by guys much smaller than me but everytime they tap me Ive learned something I was doing wrong. To the guys who go 100% (i know %'s are different to everyone...) just try picking a technical fighter in your class and just rolling with him not looking to tap him but just working with him. You might be surprised what you find out about yourself.

    Now dont get me wrong... I do go full out with certain people more so than others and of course when preparing for a fight I push myself and my team mates harder. Especially right after an event for the first couple weeks or so go light :)
     
  16. VampireMonk

    VampireMonk Black Belt

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    you just have to know that with certain people you spar a certain way,
    like communication,
    some people you have to hit with a hammer, others you talk philosophy,
    just different folks, and if you can adapt to each person then its awesome
    for you and your team mates.
     
  17. Darkslide632

    Darkslide632 Brown Belt

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    Ok, let me ask you something. Why do you train repeated movements? You train them to make them instinctive, which lowers the amount of time it takes for you to apply them. Sports psychologists say it takes roughly 5000 repititions to make something instinctive.

    Well, if you train half-assed, it is going to be engrained into your head halfassed and instinctively your body is going to respond half assed.

    Want a perfect example? How many people on here, if confronted in the street, could take someone down and slap them into an armbar, but would also release or at the very least relax if the guy tapped him (Or in the case of competitors, had a 3rd party put their hands on them)? The number would be reasonably high. Why? Because I am willing to bet that most people who have posted on here have done enough submissions that their bodies know it needs to relax when someone submits. Not to say that you couldn't stop yourself, but your bodies reaction would be the same.

    If I trained to lay off my Harai and protect uke during the fall, the I would engrain that into my system, it would become instinctive and that is how I would throw in competition or on the street.

    This should be pretty easy to understand... it is the very basics of training. Instinctive movements.
     
  18. kumite

    kumite Orange Belt

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    No, you can learn to throw correctly and protect your training partner. I've learned to seperate my technique based on who I am working with at the time. If I'm working with someone who isn't to my level or just doesn't want to take a hard fall that night, I adjust my technique accordling. But if I'm working with one of the guys that loves to go hard, then we beat the hell out of each other. It is a mental process that has to be learned. It's the reason a Judo master can either kill you with a throw or throw you in such a way that you don't hardly feel it.
     
  19. Darkslide632

    Darkslide632 Brown Belt

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    I am perfectly capable of throwing someone without hurting them if their ukemi is not up to par. However, that is only good for training THEM, not me. There is a difference. If we are practicing breakfalls, that is fine, I can throw as hard or as soft as I need to, but again, that is not doing anything to help ME or my throwing for competition.

    I can't even believe people are trying to argue the fact that you fight how you train. It is the most obvious thing ever. If it WASN'T the case, then why the hell would we train in the first place?
     
  20. no need to lose the wrestling intensity. just harness it and the more time you spend doing judo or bjj you'll know when to really go for it. going 100% also doesnt mean you cant be relaxed and loose.
     

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