Thoughts on Mpumbu's Deep Half Guard

[YourGrace]

The result of that fight to me just clarifies that a lot of sports techniques can back fire in self defense situations. People will go on and on about how Mpumbu sucks at BJJ and whatever but fact is he was getting underneath Rampage's base doing a positive thing to improve position in a bjj situation but in a fight got him ktfo.

Jiu jitsu is designed for a weaker person to neutralize an opponent, not necessarily defeat them. Deep half just kinda goes against that principle. Anyways watching that fight made me realize why i prefer training bjj for self defense but to each their own.

 

[HOLA]

He just wound up pinning his own hand so Rampage could tee off on his face.

 

[itheuser]

So the technique doesn't work because he failed to use it successfully?

Would you like to analyze the instances when the technique clearly worked, and offer an explanation?

Look, if all your training BJJ for is for some basic self-defense scenario that will never materialize, then you're going to have a fairly dull time training BJJ.

You don't base your technical decisions off of one instance.

 

[itheuser]

Also, to call deep half guard a sport technique only is ridiculous. The technique is a common tactic for being pinned in that situation in MMA.

It's easier to go under when you're pinned deep than it is to get taller and to move away.

 

[PointyShinyBurn]

Good job no one's ever been TKO'd from their closed guard in MMA, or you'd have to abandon that as well.

 

[jughead1]

Good job no one's ever been TKO'd from their closed guard in MMA, or you'd have to abandon that as well.

Lemme throw this out there, so we can avoid the awkward "WELL ACTUALLY!!!!11"

 

[thegreenblender]

Nobody should ever try a spinning backfist or kick, either. Those have been countered before.

 

[Einarr]

Pumba's legs are too short for Deep Half.

 

[YourGrace]

^lmao

I just think it is a high risk move that DOES INDEED WORK... but it is risky and ur supposed to train your jiu jitsu so it works when ur at a physical disadvantage. You probably want to rely on safer positions when it counts.

 

[YourGrace]

Good job no one's ever been TKO'd from their closed guard in MMA, or you'd have to abandon that as well.

closed guard is notorious for gassed out fighters to take a break and not keep their guard active (like how a proper closed guard is used)

so yeah they get knocked out... i am able to recognize when technique is being used or when a fighter is praying for a standup

even though it is an old as shit fight with modified rules... Zulu vs Rickson is how ur supposed to use a closed guard... did zulu ever have posture for a second??

no he got his kidney's heeled for 20 minutes and then he got his back taken as he struggled the entire time... i guarantee u he was not happy being on top and fighting for his life...

u dont get knocked out when u have a good closed guard and making the opponent uncomfortable on top of u... i think u can have a really good deep half and ur still flipping a coin as u have less control over the opponent

mpumbu was seconds from pulling off a nice sweep but it didnt matter, he had a junkyard dog on top of him xD

probably a traditional underhook position to control posture and distance a little would have allowed him to survive the position

 

[KJGould]

Wilson Reis and Lil Nog have used Deep Half Guard to effect in MMA. Lil Nog also had his shut down in the same fight by a good turk ride. Like most positions, pros and cons.

 

[trustdoesntrust]

Wilson Reis and Lil Nog have used Deep Half Guard to effect in MMA. Lil Nog also had his shut down in the same fight by a good turk ride. Like most positions, pros and cons.

I was going to say, Reis dominated from that position in his last UFC fight. The way M'Pumbu did it, he'd have gotten crossfaced to hell if it was a BJJ comp, and perhaps would have been open for a d'arce or kimura counter. Also, remember that Rampage is a professional MMA fighter who has literally been training jiu-jitsu for the last 15+ years. And out of all of his 50 whatever fights, Sakuraba is the only guy I can remember submitting him, and that was early in his career.

edit: forgot about jon jones getting that weird RNC against him

 

[pistol3]

I went and watched this fight, and based on the comments, I was expecting a lot more deep half guard work. From what I can tell it looked like he was (maybe) trying to (very slowly) pull deep half guard while he was half conscious from Rampage's left hook. I don't think we can draw many conclusions about how worthwhile deep half guard is when applied in MMA based on this fight.

My own personal belief is that techniques like deep half guard and x-guard work in MMA, but they have to be one fast continuous motion from entry to sweep. When done correctly, your opponent won't have the base to to play basketball with your head. If you stop for any reason, all bets are off.

 

[YourGrace]

Wilson Reis and Lil Nog have used Deep Half Guard to effect in MMA. Lil Nog also had his shut down in the same fight by a good turk ride. Like most positions, pros and cons.

i agree there are pros and cons to each position which is why i think u need to weigh the pros and cons of your options given a position.

I also think being in a sport environment, whether it is mma or bjj changes your strategy and what positions or techniques u will attempt. I know even with a ref around im sure an mma fight feels like a fight for your life but when it really is a fight for your life i think u really gotta scrutinize what positions u want to be good at and what positions u may not want to spend much time regardless the success they are used in sport situations. Sorry for the rambling sentence. in a fight u want whatever gives u most control and u cant argue that a closed guard or a feet on the opponents hips type open guard shouldnt be the go to when on the bottom and then to think about escapes from there. Those are the positions where u can manage distance and control over an opponent the best i think.

 

[YourGrace]

Dikembe Mutumbo does jewjitsu? That dude be hella tall yo

 

[Silverblur]

Seems to me that Mpumbu went to his back way to early, without really getting underneath Rampage or protecting his far side arm. At that point he should still have been up on his side, head pressed against Rampage's hip. Even in pure grappling he wasn't in good position, and Rampage could have taken the far side under-hook whenever he wanted it.