Thoughts on Bill Wallaces fighting style

Sweeptheleg7

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What are your thoughts on Bill Wallace’s fighting system. He fights in a side ways stance and in American kickboxing back in his day, there was no low kicking. His side kicks look really smooth and quick and has some interesting counter ideas.

Do you think this would work in mma? How about in a k-1/ glory style fight?
 
bill wallace was exceptional. a talent, and he fought in full contact not by his own decision but he was pressured by his fellow peers who were the top fighters from point sparring that were transitioning to full contact.

bill wallace is really good for mid to high kicks, I'll even say better than muay thai in terms of these. more types of kicks, faster entry, and economical movement. overall he's the better kicker. but low kicks can be an annoying pain in the ass to deal with if one never trained to fight against low kickers.

if bill wallace trained for handling low kicks he would've been an absolute monster. because he was already truly gifted from the waist level and above. he just needed to implement leg kicks and he would've been fine.
 


What are your thoughts on Bill Wallace’s fighting system. He fights in a side ways stance and in American kickboxing back in his day, there was no low kicking. His side kicks look really smooth and quick and has some interesting counter ideas.

Do you think this would work in mma? How about in a k-1/ glory style fight?


Bill is a legend and one of the greatest above the waist kbs ever. His style is very interesting and effective.

In terms of its general applicability to other rulesets well, low kicks, if they are allowed are always going to be a problem. Yes as Bill has pointed out, lead leg kicks like side kicks can be used as a defence but it is a more energy consuming, proactive approach generally than checking. In a ring that long side stance will be harder to maintain when pressured and cornered due to the nature of the ring. Yes Wallace fought in a ring but when you add low kicks to the pressure game with the corners it makes stopping a walk down low kick approach harder.

With all that said yes, unlike more cynical purists, I think it can be successful in k1 and Muay Thai across all levels without the person being a one in a million wonder or athletic , albeit for maximum caution it might be good to box step into a neutral squared stance and circle out to reestablish range and learn to fight off the ropes whilst coming out of the side stance temporarily.

I'm going to assume the hypothetical transference to another ruleset of bills style means filling someone of the holes by at least getting used to countering low kicks and getting a very rudimentary understanding of knees and elbows and clinch whilst still maintaining the stance, strategy, flavour and kicking style of the superfoot approach.

Anyway out of all the rulesets mentioned it probably translates to mma the best. You see this with Stephen thompson who uses tons of stuff that is bill Wallace like (albeit he mixes that with some more genetic blitz style karate).

MMA and its takedowns would make spamming low kicks less of a thing, as does the stance most mma fighter adopt to maximise defence against said takedowns

The side stance alsonallows for good in and out movement which can be very good for range control, which is very important in MMA where it can be good to be either slightly closer or further away than in other combat sports, depending on what you are doing and the side stance can alsoncreate some Interesting takedown defence opportunities. If its in a cage that's an extra bonus due to the space afforded and lack of harsh corners to be backed into.

After that it's either k1 rules/muay thai rules. It's hard to say which one would be harder based simply on the rules and approaches found within if skill level of the k1 kickboxer and nak Muay opponent was similar.

On the one hand if its a Dutch style fighter on particular they are going to walk you down and combo into low kicks against you, which could be difficult to deal with, at the same time however Dutch lbs can be shut down via technical linear kicking and distant management as thais have done before.

A lot of people will probably bring up the Ramon Daniels situation, especially against nieky holtzken and say Dutch kickboxers would give someone who fought more like Wallace would pose more trouble than a nak Muay but thais would be able to compete more with the overall kicking skill of a superfoot styled fighter above the waist better than a Dutch kb in many respects and would use more tools.

If we factor in scoring k1 would probably reward the superfoot boxing and flashy techniques more than Muay thai and there would be a bias against karate style kicking more within thai style scoring. Side kicks would be the thing in Wallaces style that would be one of the best thing to use against thai fighters simply because they tend to be open for it due to being square and using a more high guard and you engage more out of their range than throwing a teep from a square stance.
 
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It's a pretty rare style in Kickboxing these days (especially since Chuck Norris' shiny pants league went defunct), only successful fighter from recent memory that utilized similar principles is Raymond Daniels. I see MMA guys getting more bladed nowadays, but the base of that looks more like point Karate than Bill's kinda TKD-esque stance
 
striking noob here. so in a bladed stance, does that make you more vulnerable to oblique kicks? if so, what's the best defense for that? lift your lead leg, throw your own offensive kicks, etc? basically how to avoid this (and I know those kicks are a bit controversial, but there's a thread just for debating them...) thanks,

GrimComposedFallowdeer-size_restricted.gif
 
It's a pretty rare style in Kickboxing these days (especially since Chuck Norris' shiny pants league went defunct), only successful fighter from recent memory that utilized similar principles is Raymond Daniels. I see MMA guys getting more bladed nowadays, but the base of that looks more like point Karate than Bill's kinda TKD-esque stance

If we are talking about a replica of Bill's style with the whole totally side on stance, bsckfists and the massive reliance on the universal chamber off the lead leg then no, it's not that common. If we are talking lead leg dominant side on tmaish styles in general it depends on the ruleset if we are talking full contact styles.

Muay thai stances are Square and a stance as bladed as Wallaces is almost never seen. K1 stances are sometimes more bladed but not to the extent of being, or almost being, as side on as Wallaces modified kiba dachi stance.

You still see side stances in above the waist albeit modern above the waist but it's less common today.

In MMA we are seeing a lot of bladed stances but not as bladed as an actual side stance for most other than some karate guys.

The sanda stance you tend to see is bladed and often more narrow (and often more bladed) than a standard mma stance.

They also rely a lot on the lead leg. It's not a full on side stance like Wallace uses however, but whilst not standard it's used a fair bit as an alternative stance in sanda. Jason tee is a big user of it for instance.
 
striking noob here. so in a bladed stance, does that make you more vulnerable to oblique kicks? if so, what's the best defense for that? lift your lead leg, throw your own offensive kicks, etc? basically how to avoid this (and I know those kicks are a bit controversial, but there's a thread just for debating them...) thanks,

GrimComposedFallowdeer-size_restricted.gif

Not demonstrated in a bladed stance but some of the concepts here would work.
 
Man it's cool to see how mobile he is in his mid 70s. Easy to forget that Superfoot could throw some hands too!
 
If legs kicks were allowed, he would have had to change a few things for sure.
 
Since MMA/Muay Thai is much more popular currently I think that talented TMA oriented guys like Bill Wallace get written off. I've been to a couple of his seminars & he is world-class. In 2008 I was impressed by his pure kicking ability which was in my opinion the best I have ever seen especially considering at the time he was around 63. I remember thinking "man this guy is so fucking good. Imagine how good he was when he was like 15 years younger" (he'd have been 48 then). In addition he only uses his left leg to kick because an injury turned his right leg into spaghetti. If both his legs were fully healthy his kicking ability would be unbelievable. I can't think of anyone else that got to the level that he did with a handicap like that.
 
Bill is dope. I have studied his online content and trained some of it.

As already proven in the style vs style breakdown by Lawrence Kenshin, that style alone is going to fail in other rulesets. That being said, let someone like bill cross train in MMA or what not, and incorporate his own style into it would be deadly.

Regarding oblique kick, there's been some in depth discussions on this forum about it already.

IMO you'll find that the majority of counters etc to it available online may work, but are not practical IMO. Meaning yes they "work" in partner drills or in theory but the practicality of actually pulling them off in a fight or sparring is very difficult. Try for yourself.

This is one of the things I speak about in regards to what works on paper/theory doesn't always translate to reality. A extreme analogy would be shooting a incoming bullet with your own.

That gif was nasty. I'm glad the IKF banned it. I wouldn't allow my guys to do it when I was coaching. Let the hardcore MMA guys bang bro and ruin their knees.
 
Bill developed his style because he has a bad right knee. His kicks are super fast and he can change direction mid kick. He has good hands but his leg us just crazy what he could do with it. Been to his seminars a few times and got to know his a little many years ago.

It works for him but I don't think most could pull it off.
 
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