This whole 2 weight world champion thing is just a marketing farce.

[The Natural Born Runner]

I've always said this and I'll say it again...

When people jumped out of their seats in disbelief that Conor could win 2 different titles in 2 different weight classes, I didn't move much. Conor is a great fighter, but him being a 2 weight world champion was not mystifying, neither was it ground breaking, here is why...

You can be great in one division a la Jose Aldo at Featherweight, but being truly dominant and championship ready in two classes is almost impossible. Now, if you decide to take a dominant fighter like Aldo, dos Anjos, Cormier etc. and give them a one-off fight in the division above them, they stand a fighting chance of winning on that given night.

Not sure about you guys but last time I checked, if you get a title shot it's typically because you earned it in some fashion i.e. beat several solid fighters in that division to get your shot at the champion. When you consistently beat solid fighters it proves to the public that you are one of the better fighters at that weight and makes people want to see you take a stab at being number one. Anyone can take a top 10 fighter and give him a title shot, look at Michael Bisping. On any given night a solid fighter can upset the better fighter, that's not what being a "champion" is about.

Conor McGregor achieved something that "on paper" is incredible, but in reality there are so many great fighters out there that could do the exact same if they were granted the chance.

Look at it this way, Demetrious Johnson hasn't beaten a top level 135lb fighter in years, but he could have one great night against Dillashaw and be seen as the champion at 135lbs, but that is misleading, right? Look at Holloway taking on Khabib, imagine it went ahead and Max won, would that have made Max a legitimate 155lb champion, or would he have just had a good night?

DC hasn't beat a solid Heavyweight in years either, but one great night and he's the king of the Heavyweights, whole thing is just misleading.

My motto is that belts mean nothing, resume means everything. It's not how many fights you've had, it's who you've fought.

 

[AminoAcid]

Agree 100%.

 

[knowsitall]

It is what it is.

 

[Toco]

not a bad thread, but a dominant champ I think deserves to fight for the belt of an upper class, if he so desires to. and that would give him a way more credible claim to be a two weight world champion than a guy that mcgregor, for examplem that didn't even have a single title defense before challenging for the LW title. also I disagree with him being a great fighter, he didn't show enought to be called one. he was a great FW, I think that you can say, but a great LW? far from that. he lost embarrassingly to nate of all people, barely won against him and then yes whooped eddie, who isn't that great of a fighter, having won the title in what someone could consider a fluke.

also it's not only the resume, but being a champ with countless title defenses holds way more weight than say, ferguson's win streak. although great, he wasn't champion when he did that streak so he didn't have a target on his back and all the champions obligations, the stress and everything that comes with having the belt. that's why aldo, GSP, jones an anderson's winstreak is greater than what ferguson ever had. also that's why khabib's 25-0 winstreak isn't still THAT impressive because he beat a lot of regional guys and still don't have the belt to solidify his undefeated winstreak and put him in the GOAT talk (would be perfect if he had beaten ferguson for the title, but this week was unfair to a lot of people)

 

[Bend NvR Break]

MM went 17-2 at BW

 

[Only Here for Attachments]

UFC is pretty much just pro wrestling now

 

[Flokk]

Two word version of OP: consistency counts.

UFC is pretty much just pro wrestling now

But is pro wrestling dying tho?

 

[The Natural Born Runner]

It is what it is.

This provides zero insight or value, what is the purpose of a comment like this lol?

 

[Based God]

Championships period are a marketing farce.

Championships in combat sports exists solely as a tool to sell a fighter and a fight, nothing more.

 

[The Natural Born Runner]

MM went 17-2 at BW

How many of the current top 10 has he beat?

 

[YaWinSumYaLoseSum]

In order to be the best you gotta beat the best and the best is blessed it izzzzz what it izzzz

 

[Bend NvR Break]

How many of the current top 10 has he beat?

How many of the current top 10 has TJ beaten?

1-1 with Assuncao
0-1 with Cruz
1-0 with Cody
1-0 Lineker
Care to add anymore

MM has 2 wins over Dodson who is currently number 8.

I'm pretty sure though that if you look at his opponents during his time at 135 he took out top 10 guys. Didn't he beat Miguel Torres before Torres fell off a cliff?

 

[The Natural Born Runner]

not a bad thread, but a dominant champ I think deserves to fight for the belt of an upper class, if he so desires to. and that would give him a way more credible claim to be a two weight world champion than a guy that mcgregor, for examplem that didn't even have a single title defense before challenging for the LW title. also I disagree with him being a great fighter, he didn't show enought to be called one. he was a great FW, I think that you can say, but a great LW? far from that. he lost embarrassingly to nate of all people, barely won against him and then yes whooped eddie, who isn't that great of a fighter, having won the title in what someone could consider a fluke.

also it's not only the resume, but being a champ with countless title defenses holds way more weight than say, ferguson's win streak. although great, he wasn't champion when he did that streak so he didn't have a target on his back and all the champions obligations, the stress and everything that comes with having the belt. that's why aldo, GSP, jones an anderson's winstreak is greater than what ferguson ever had. also that's why khabib's 25-0 winstreak isn't still THAT impressive because he beat a lot of regional guys and still don't have the belt to solidify his undefeated winstreak and put him in the GOAT talk (would be perfect if he had beaten ferguson for the title, but this week was unfair to a lot of people)

I disagree with the argument about title defenses meaning more.

Tito Ortiz defended his title a bunch of times, and therefore is seen as an all-time great Light Heavyweight.

Yes, he was a pioneer, but look at the level of competition.

I would take a non-title win streak over killers over a bunch of title defenses against sub-par competition.

Jessica Andrade has never been the champ, but her body-count is heavily stacked. If Joanna had never fought her there is an argument that Andrade actually has a better resume.

 

[The Natural Born Runner]

How many of the current top 10 has TJ beaten?

1-1 with Assuncao
0-1 with Cruz
1-0 with Cody
Care to add anymore

He knocked the current champion out stiff. He also had a razor close loss to Cruz.

He also finished the "unbeatable" former champ, twice!

Stop being ignorant.

 

[A.S. Deep]

I've always said this and I'll say it again...

When people jumped out of their seats in disbelief that Conor could win 2 different titles in 2 different weight classes, I didn't move much. Conor is a great fighter, but him being a 2 weight world champion was not mystifying, neither was it ground breaking, here is why...

You can be great in one division a la Jose Aldo at Featherweight, but being truly dominant and championship ready in two classes is almost impossible. Now, if you decide to take a dominant fighter like Aldo, dos Anjos, Cormier etc. and give them a one-off fight in the division above them, they stand a fighting chance of winning on that given night.

Not sure about you guys but last time I checked, if you get a title shot it's typically because you earned it in some fashion i.e. beat several solid fighters in that division to get your shot at the champion. When you consistently beat solid fighters it proves to the public that you are one of the better fighters at that weight and makes people want to see you take a stab at being number one. Anyone can take a top 10 fighter and give him a title shot, look at Michael Bisping. On any given night a solid fighter can upset the better fighter, that's not what being a "champion" is about.

Conor McGregor achieved something that "on paper" is incredible, but in reality there are so many great fighters out there that could do the exact same if they were granted the chance.

Look at it this way, Demetrious Johnson hasn't beaten a top level 135lb fighter in years, but he could have one great night against Dillashaw and be seen as the champion at 135lbs, but that is misleading, right? Look at Holloway taking on Khabib, imagine it went ahead and Max won, would that have made Max a legitimate 155lb champion, or would he have just had a good night?

DC hasn't beat a solid Heavyweight in years either, but one great night and he's the king of the Heavyweights, whole thing is just misleading.

My motto is that belts mean nothing, resume means everything. It's not how many fights you've had, it's who you've fought.

Have to agree. Though there are a few fighters who could've been dominant in 2 weight classes. DC and Jones come to mind, though they wouldn't have been as dominant at HW obviously.

 

[Bend NvR Break]

He knocked the current champion out stiff. He also had a razor close loss to Cruz.

He also finished the "unbeatable" former champ, twice!

Stop being ignorant.

The current champ is TJ.... And that wasn't a razor close loss to Cruz. 49-46 imo.

 

[gono btw]

I've always said this and I'll say it again...

When people jumped out of their seats in disbelief that Conor could win 2 different titles in 2 different weight classes, I didn't move much. Conor is a great fighter, but him being a 2 weight world champion was not mystifying, neither was it ground breaking, here is why...

You can be great in one division a la Jose Aldo at Featherweight, but being truly dominant and championship ready in two classes is almost impossible. Now, if you decide to take a dominant fighter like Aldo, dos Anjos, Cormier etc. and give them a one-off fight in the division above them, they stand a fighting chance of winning on that given night.

Not sure about you guys but last time I checked, if you get a title shot it's typically because you earned it in some fashion i.e. beat several solid fighters in that division to get your shot at the champion. When you consistently beat solid fighters it proves to the public that you are one of the better fighters at that weight and makes people want to see you take a stab at being number one. Anyone can take a top 10 fighter and give him a title shot, look at Michael Bisping. On any given night a solid fighter can upset the better fighter, that's not what being a "champion" is about.

Conor McGregor achieved something that "on paper" is incredible, but in reality there are so many great fighters out there that could do the exact same if they were granted the chance.

Look at it this way, Demetrious Johnson hasn't beaten a top level 135lb fighter in years, but he could have one great night against Dillashaw and be seen as the champion at 135lbs, but that is misleading, right? Look at Holloway taking on Khabib, imagine it went ahead and Max won, would that have made Max a legitimate 155lb champion, or would he have just had a good night?

DC hasn't beat a solid Heavyweight in years either, but one great night and he's the king of the Heavyweights, whole thing is just misleading.

My motto is that belts mean nothing, resume means everything. It's not how many fights you've had, it's who you've fought.

U mean BJ winning the WW belt against HOFer Hughes, and losing a controversial dec against No Rush... meant nothing?

 

[The Natural Born Runner]

The current champ is TJ....

Semantics, you know what I meant, the current champion at that time.

 

[The Natural Born Runner]

U mean BJ winning the WW belt against HOFer Hughes, and losing a controversial dec against No Rush... meant nothing?

It doesn't mean nothing because of exactly what you just said, there was some level of consistency.

That said, there wasn't that much consistency was there?

The remainder of Penn's Welterweight tenure was awful. Stopped by Hughes and St. Pierre in rematches, then demolished by Diaz and MacDonald. His Welterweight resume is very short, huge highs, terrible lows.

 

[gono btw]

It doesn't mean nothing because of exactly what you just said, there was some level of consistency.

That said, there wasn't that much consistency was there?

The remainder of Penn's Welterweight tenure was awful. Stopped by Hughes and St. Pierre in rematches, then demolished by Diaz and MacDonald. His Welterweight resume is very short, huge highs, terrible lows.

He was 33-34 yrs against Nick & Rory, which is a normal age to start a physical decline.

He´s definitely excuseable.