This night confirms GSP is the GOAT

[gono btw]

Also, while I am definitely not a fan of Bisping calling him the "weakest MW of all time" is pretty funny and in line with the rest of your stupidity, remarkably consistent

Let's see who he beat:

Dan Henderson (I actually think he lost this one)
Luke Rockhold
Anderson Silva

just to name a few.

Even the tone of your post betrays lil faith in what you´re actually sayin´, mate...

 

[Doctor Lenovo]

And Fedor got caught by Matt Mitrione lol.... People get caught, it doesn't change the level of dominance a person has had over the years. Both of GSP's loses he avenged in dominate fashion. The only 2 people to finish him he stopped both of them.

I don't consider Fedor in the GOAT debate. He never fought for the UFC. Therefore, he is ineligible for my considerations.

Jon Jones has yet "to get caught" by any opponent, let alone a subpar opponent.

 

[errol ansen]

You can't be a GOAT if you tap to strikes, sorry.

I usually don't wade into thise GOAT waters but man, I'd go with the guy who tapped to strikes then came back to brutally avenge the loss in his home town than the guy who tests positives multiple times and gets tested every other week because no one believes he is clean anymore........

 

[BFoe]

I don't consider Fedor in the GOAT debate. He never fought for the UFC. Therefore, he is ineligible for my considerations.

Jon Jones has yet "to get caught" by any opponent, let alone a subpar opponent.

I’m not the type to get butthurt if someone doesn’t have the same GOAT pick as me; but having never fought in the UFC shouldn’t really be a consideration, should it? Fedor’s got like 5 former/future UFC champs on his resume during that run, and 2 more since. That doesn’t count in your GOAT consideration? Honest question.

I usually don't wade into thise GOAT waters but man, I'd go with the guy who tapped to strikes then came back to brutally avenge the loss in his home town than the guy who tests positives multiple times and gets tested every other week because no one believes he is clean anymore........

I agree. @Beebop already knows my GOAT pick, but his pick of GSP is a very reasonable one, and having tapped to strikes shouldn’t disqualify him.

 

[Doctor Lenovo]

I’m not the type to get butthurt if someone doesn’t have the same GOAT pick as me; but having never fought in the UFC shouldn’t really be a consideration, should it? Fedor’s got like 5 former/future UFC champs on his resume during that run, and 2 more since. That doesn’t count in your GOAT consideration? Honest question.


I agree. @Beebop already knows my GOAT pick, but his pick of GSP is a very reasonable one, and having tapped to strikes shouldn’t disqualify him.

To determine GOAT status, you will have to assume a reasonable standard. My reasonable standard is only UFC records are admissible.

Without the UFC as the standard, then all types of MMA fighters with incredible records become eligible for GOAT consideration. A good example is Michael Venom Page. Without the UFC as a standard, he will be in consideration as a GOAT MMA fighter. MVP is 17-1 with 14 finishes. That is ~78% finishing over 8 years of competing in MMA. Very impressive.

The UFC must be the standard, because it is the best promotion with the most money. So, it is reasonable to assume it has the best pool of prize fighters. I think I am being reasonable when I say a fighter without a UFC record should not be considering for GOAT status.

 

[BFoe]

To determine GOAT status, you will have to assume a reasonable standard. My reasonable standard is only UFC records are admissible.

Without the UFC as the standard, then all types of MMA fighters with incredible records become eligible for GOAT consideration. A good example is Michael Venom Page. Without the UFC as a standard, he will be in consideration as a GOAT MMA fighter. MVP is 17-1 with 14 finishes. That is ~78% finishing over 8 years of competing in MMA. Very impressive.

The UFC must be the standard, because it is the best promotion with the most money. So, it is reasonable to assume it has the best pool of prize fighters. I think I am being reasonable when I say a fighter without a UFC record should not be considering for GOAT status.

I can totally respect that you’re applying a criteria. I would disagree that having a UFC record should be the standard. They’re the biggest (and I would say the best) promotion now, but it wasn’t always that way. PRIDE was a huge promotion, filling up the Saitama Super Arena, and having the largest audience record at the same time that the UFC was running cards at Mohegan Sun. They had the better fighters, the better heavyweight division.
For me, it comes down to: who did the fighter beat, and what did they accomplish? That’s why Michael Venom Page isn’t a GOAT candidate. It’s not that he hasn’t fought in the UFC, it’s that he hasn’t beat anyone of note, or accomplished anything of note.
One point of agreement: I would say that a fighter today would probably have to fight in the UFC to be considered, because that’s largely where the best fighters are now. But it wasn’t always that way. Just my opinion, FWIW.

 

[Doctor Lenovo]

I can totally respect that you’re applying a criteria. I would disagree that having a UFC record should be the standard. They’re the biggest (and I would say the best) promotion now, but it wasn’t always that way. PRIDE was a huge promotion, filling up the Saitama Super Arena, and having the largest audience record at the same time that the UFC was running cards at Mohegan Sun. They had the better fighters, the better heavyweight division.
For me, it comes down to: who did the fighter beat, and what did they accomplish? That’s why Michael Venom Page isn’t a GOAT candidate. It’s not that he hasn’t fought in the UFC, it’s that he hasn’t beat anyone of note, or accomplished anything of note.
One point of agreement: I would say that a fighter today would probably have to fight in the UFC to be considered, because that’s largely where the best fighters are now. But it wasn’t always that way. Just my opinion, FWIW.

PRIDE didn't have the talent pool that the UFC has had since like 2009. PRIDE didn't have the same rules. PRIDE didn't use a cage.

I will just agree to disagree, because there is nothing you can say that will convince that some old non-UFC record should be respected more than UFC records starting from 2009 with the Unified Rules of MMA.

On top of that, the UFC worked hard to try and get Fedor to sign. He didn't. So, he was presented the opportunity to prove himself in the UFC, and he didn't take it. Other PRIDE fighters came to the UFC. So, no excuses for Fedor.

 

[Vil7]

GSP got knocked out by fucking Matt Serra

Matt Serra

View attachment 724993

Matt Serra has meatballs for hands. (he had to retire because he ate them)

 

[BFoe]

PRIDE didn't have the talent pool that the UFC has had since like 2009. PRIDE didn't have the same rules. PRIDE didn't use a cage.

I will just agree to disagree, because there is nothing you can say that will convince that some old non-UFC record should be respected more than UFC records starting from 2009 with the Unified Rules of MMA.

On top of that, the UFC worked hard to try and get Fedor to sign. He didn't. So, he was presented the opportunity to prove himself in the UFC, and he didn't take it. Other PRIDE fighters came to the UFC. So, no excuses for Fedor.

No worries, man. I don’t mind people having different viewpoints. But it would seem like the criteria would lead to odd results, is all I’m saying. Big Nog for example, is a great fighter. Maybe not a GOAT candidate, but he’s an all time great. He was a PRIDE champ that came to the UFC and became interim champ (at a time when that actually meant something). It would seem like you would rank him higher, or say he had a better career, than Fedor—even though Fedor beat him twice and has better accomplishments. That doesn’t seem like a logical conclusion to me.

 

[Doctor Lenovo]

No worries, man. I don’t mind people having different viewpoints. But it would seem like the criteria would lead to odd results, is all I’m saying.

No. My criteria actually normalizes the results, because it gets rid of issues of (1) fighters in different promotions not competing against the same talent pool (2) in the specific case of PRIDE, it gets rid of difference in rules and the playing field (cage versus ring).

Big Nog for example, is a great fighter. Maybe not a GOAT candidate, but he’s an all time great. He was a PRIDE champ that came to the UFC and became interim champ (at a time when that actually meant something). It would seem like you would rank him higher, or say he had a better career, than Fedor—even though Fedor beat him twice and has better accomplishments. That doesn’t seem like a logical conclusion to me.

Why are you even using Big Nog as an example, while admitting that he is not even in the GOAT discussion? You should use fighters like GSP, Jon Jones, Anderson Silva, Demetrious Johnson, Khabib Nurmagomedov.

Take Khabib for example, he is undefeated for 10 years. He is 12-0 in the UFC. So, if we are going to look for a GOAT, why the hell will we look back at PRIDE records when we have a current UFC fighter blowing all those PRIDE records out the water?

The UFC has been around long enough to make PRIDE FC irrelevant. The PRIDE fighters are pioneers of the sport. With the exception of Anderson Silva, they don't have the UFC records for GOAT considerations.

We don't need to look at PRIDE anymore. It is obsolete. The new standard is GSP, Jon Jones, Anderson Silva, Demetrious Johnson, Khabib Nurmagomedov (especially if he beats Tony Ferguson) and Tony Ferguson (especially if he beats Khabib).

The UFC is the most reasonable normalizing standard.

 

[BFoe]

No. My criteria actually normalizes the results, because it gets rid of issues of (1) fighters in different promotions not competing against the same talent pool (2) in the specific case of PRIDE, it gets rid of difference in rules and the playing field (cage versus ring).

Why are you even using Big Nog as an example, while admitting that he is not even in the GOAT discussion? You should use fighters like GSP, Jon Jones, Anderson Silva, Demetrious Johnson, Khabib Nurmagomedov.

Take Khabib for example, he is undefeated for 10 years. He is 12-0 in the UFC. So, if we are going to look for a GOAT, why the hell will we look back at PRIDE records when we have a current UFC fighter blowing all those PRIDE records out the water?

The UFC has been around long enough to make PRIDE FC irrelevant. The PRIDE fighters are pioneers of the sport. With the exception of Anderson Silva, they don't have the UFC records for GOAT considerations.

We don't need to look at PRIDE anymore. It is obsolete. The new standard is GSP, Jon Jones, Anderson Silva, Demetrious Johnson, Khabib Nurmagomedov (especially if he beats Tony Ferguson) and Tony Ferguson (especially if he beats Khabib).

The UFC is the most reasonable normalizing standard.

I suppose it eliminates the cage vs ring issue. Other than that, it excludes fighters who deserve consideration, or prohibits consideration of fights that should be considered. I used Nog as an example because he could technically be at least considered, due to his UFC run—but the dude who beat him twice in 2 title fights can’t be considered. Take someone who is a GOAT candidate, like Anderson. We can consider him based on the amazing things he did in the UFC, but can’t consider the fact that he got dominated by Takase, or tapped out by Ryo Chonan because it happened in a different org?
We know what Nog accomplished in the UFC. We know what Arlovski, Sylvia, Hunt, Randleman, and Coleman accomplished in the UFC. Someone who beat those guys deserves consideration, whether it happened in the UFC, PRIDE, Affliction, Strikeforce, Bellator, ONE, or wherever.
But at the end of the day, this whole GOAT business is just debatable stuff that’s fun for fans. Believe it or not, I appreciate that you try to remove the intangibles.

 

[Doctor Lenovo]

I suppose it eliminates the cage vs ring issue. Other than that, it excludes fighters who deserve consideration, or prohibits consideration of fights that should be considered.

Not only that, it eliminates discrepancies in the talent pool, in the rules of the sport, and how the judges call decisions. These things cannot be ignored. PRIDE FC is technically a different sport.

I used Nog as an example because he could technically be at least considered, due to his UFC run—but the dude who beat him twice in 2 title fights can’t be considered.

Big Nog is 5-6 in the UFC. What "run" are you talking about? He has the UFC record of a can.

Take someone who is a GOAT candidate, like Anderson. We can consider him based on the amazing things he did in the UFC, but can’t consider the fact that he got dominated by Takase, or tapped out by Ryo Chonan because it happened in a different org?

Exactly. Anderson Silva paid his dues in the lesser leagues, and proved his GOATness in the UFC. That is how it works.

We know what Nog accomplished in the UFC. We know what Arlovski, Sylvia, Hunt, Randleman, and Coleman accomplished in the UFC. Someone who beat those guys deserves consideration, whether it happened in the UFC, PRIDE, Affliction, Strikeforce, Bellator, ONE, or wherever.
But at the end of the day, this whole GOAT business is just debatable stuff that’s fun for fans. Believe it or not, I appreciate that you try to remove the intangibles.

(1) Big Nog had not fought for the UFC when he faced Fedor. When Nog came to the UFC, his record was 5-6. I can't give you this.
(2) Arlovski was a UFC fighter, and he went into the Fedor fight with a 12-4 record. I will give you that.
(3) Sylvia was a UFC fighter, and he went into the Fedor fight with a 10-4 record. I will give you that.
(4) Mark Hunt was not a UFC fighter going into the Fedor fight. Hunt's UFC record is 8-8-1 draw-1 No contest.
(5) Randleman was a 4-3 UFC fighter. He went into the Fedor fight a 5-2 in other promotion fighter. I can give you the fact that he fought in the UFC, but was he was an average UFC fighter.
(6) Coleman was a 6-3 UFC fighter going into the Fedor fight. He was 7-2 PRIDE fighter before the Fedor fight.

So, out of the 6 names you gave, 4 could be considered UFC fighters. Of the 4 fighters, 3 fighters were above average in the UFC.

On the evidence, the best you can say for Fedor is that he could have been above average in the UFC. The difference between Fedor and Anderson Silva is that Anderson Silva signed his UFC contract and now we know how great he truly was. With Fedor, it is nothing but hypothetical, hindsight bias, MMAth and etc.

 

[Mamou]

Think about it.

Forget about Jones being caught with PED over 3 times for a second.

Jon has now had arguably 3 gift decisions, 2 of them being his last 2.

Jones has had many close fights, and struggled many times in his career.

GSP has fought better competition, better athletes and more accomplished MMA fighters.

His only real blemish is the Hendricks fight, which many people think he actually did enough to win.

I know GSP lost to Serra and Hughes but he actually rematches them and dominated them.

Jon did that with Gus even though it was many years later.

Let's see if Jon even gives Reyes a rematch, he didn't give Santos one and he deserved it.

GSP IS THE ONE TRUE GOAT

BOW DOWN TO THE KING

Sorry but Shogun, Rampage, Rashad, Machida, and DC are far more accomplished than Hughes, Penn, Shields, Condit, Fitch, Koscheck, Alves, and Hendricks.

Everyone on Jones' list has been a UFC champion and ranked #1 in the division, 3 on GSP's list has been champion and ranked #1.

 

[Barteh]

Fedor > Jones > Anderson > GSP

LOL @ GSP nuthuggers who think otherwise.

 

[Oeshon]

It actually confirms the opposite.

Jones is doing what GSP didn't. He is fighting the next crop of contenders as an old lion.

GSP had one close fight at 32 and then retired.

 

[Juice]

Can’t believe I’m debating with either a 16 year old or a really slow adult.

You are just a dumb troll that trolls every Jones thread because you stay butt hurt.

 

[20falarVerdades]

You are just a dumb troll that trolls every Jones thread because you stay butt hurt.

@Intellidamus is a known shill and bullshit vendor around here. I exposed him in another thread for spreading blatantly FAKE NEWS about Anderson Silva, and he never had the decency to apologize for bashing the goat

 

[Intellidamus]

You are just a dumb troll that trolls every Jones thread because you stay butt hurt.

Yep, butt hurt my favorite fighters aren’t failing PEDs tests.

 

[Intellidamus]

@Intellidamus is a known shill and bullshit vendor around here. I exposed him in another thread for spreading blatantly FAKE NEWS about Anderson Silva, and he never had the decency to apologize for bashing the goat

How touching. Trolls becoming allies.

 

[Juice]

Heh. someone is a bit salty

So who is ahead of GSP? After all most of what you said is pure bullshit so I am curious as to whom you think is ahead in the GOAT polls.

(my personal favorite is "ran from USADA". do some research moron before opening your mouth. GSP quit a year and half before USADA went live. It wasn't even being discussed when GSP fought Hendricks. In fact a few months earlier Ben Askren got into a twitter war with Dana White because White said unified testing was impossible due to cost and logistics and Askren said otherwise.).

Oh and who dropped him? You said "many" right? Go ahead and list them. I can...

Also, while I am definitely not a fan of Bisping calling him the "weakest MW of all time" is pretty funny and in line with the rest of your stupidity, remarkably consistent

Let's see who he beat:

Dan Henderson (I actually think he lost this one)
Luke Rockhold
Anderson Silva

just to name a few.

Well look what we have here, a butt hurt GSP fan mad at the truth. Listen here you crybaby bitch, I am about to clown your dumbass.

You say who is ahead of GSP as the GOAT? Jones been ahead of GSP for 8 plus years now. Fedor, Anderson, Aldo, Mighty Mouuse and DC are all ahead of your overrated hero. I just named 6 people who are ahead of your one dimensional hero.

Your overrated one dimensional hero GSP got KO'ed by a can, then after getting KO'ed by a can your hero realized his striking was mediocre and he would get out struck by his opponents so he started dry humping his opponents to boring decision wins because he knew that was his only chance to win.

A can made your overrated hero tap to strikes, HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Your one dimensional overrated hero lost to Hendricks, infact Hendricks retired your overrated hero. On top of that your overrated hero knew the USADA era was coming and he bailed out. Your overrated hero cherry picked the weakest middleweight in the history of MMA, fucking Michael Bisping LOL. Your excuse is GSP left a year and a half before the USADA as if that is suppose to excuse his overrated ass for leaving.

The next time you post make sure to take GSP's nuts out of your mouth first.