This fight made me want to see Prime Holmes vs Wilder.

[Cariñito]

Boxing is a sport in decline, so it's not so obvious that newer is better. Most of the greats of the 50's, 60's and 70's would have never boxed in today's era due to how lucrative the NFL, NBA, and MLB have become.

I did the math once and a boxer would have to be paid over 1 billion dollars per fight to create an equivalent parallel to how much more lucrative boxing was to the NFL in the 1970s

Boxings apparently, according to articles and the internet has been on the decline since the 1920s yet is massive internationally.
What you mean to say is ESPN analysts dont talk alot about boxing and that's because Americans play team sports and seem to not be leaving "violence" behind.
Europe, East Europe, parts of Asia, parts of Africa and Mexico/Latin America, boxing is huge.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

This is true but only up to a point. There have always been freak boxers in boxing that did relatively well even after top tier athletes. That and the fact that the top two boxers of the hw division, fury and Usyk, wouldn’t be caught dead playing American football in any era, regardless of how much money they are paying. Same with Vitali and Wladimir and Lennox. These guys were born to fight due to how they were brought up. It’s not like one day they sat down and decided “which sport should I triumph in to become rich?”

i think it’s the same with Ali, who literally got into boxing when someone stole his bike si he decided to learn to defend himself.

I agree with you as far as the lower tiers, there are more Michael grants and Deontay wilders today than back then, due to football taking a lot of the big boy athletes, so the “not as good” group decides to give boxing a shot.

but at the end of the day the actual top fighters will always be born fighters no matter which era.

Good post but I disagree a little. I think people are born athletes before they decide on any sport. At the end of the day a sport like boxing mostly attracts the underprivileged so if other sports are paying better and are more popular it's going to poach guys that would have been our champions.

 

[JayE]

Holmes could be caught by a right hand, so that would be a possibility. Holmes did have excellent recovery, just as Fury has, though. Holmes would box his ears off and put a really bad beating on Wilder if Wilder failed to land the Hail Mary. Wilder would have the same chance that almost saw him stop Fury in 2 of 3 fights, and that's still a chance you have to respect, but Holmes would be a sound favourite.

 

[BoxingMMA]

Sure that can happen, I’m not saying it can’t. But most of the athletes that make it to the top usually start playing from passion then the money comes. Someone like Tyson fury didn't really have any other option other than boxing. Fighting family, bare knuckle background, etc. Dude is from the UK it’s not like he is going to go play football or cricket.

I just believe that up to a certain point what you say is true, the big all around athletes can sort of choose what to do and try their hand at something else. Michael Grant or shit, even Bob Sapp are great examples of this.

but what I personally believe and it’s ok to disagree is that the real legends, Fury, Ali, Lennox, Tyson, going all the way down to Joe Louis, they were going to box, regardless of what happened in their era

 

[LangfordBarrow]

Sure that can happen, I’m not saying it can’t. But most of the athletes that make it to the top usually start playing from passion then the money comes. Someone like Tyson fury didn't really have any other option other than boxing. Fighting family, bare knuckle background, etc. Dude is from the UK it’s not like he is going to go play football or cricket.

I just believe that up to a certain point what you say is true, the big all around athletes can sort of choose what to do and try their hand at something else. Michael Grant or shit, even Bob Sapp are great examples of this.

but what I personally believe and it’s ok to disagree is that the real legends, Fury, Ali, Lennox, Tyson, going all the way down to Joe Louis, they were going to box, regardless of what happened in their era

I think just the biggest difference is instead of sitting on daddy's lap to watch the fights kids nowadays are watching baseball and football. Maybe soccer in Europe. Parents push their kids away from boxing nowadays and to safer sports like baseball. The guys I really wish we could get are the NFL players but they just get paid so much more even at an intermediate or journeyman level than most make in boxing nowadays.

 

[BoxingMMA]

I think just the biggest difference is instead of sitting on daddy's lap to watch the fights kids nowadays are watching baseball and football. Maybe soccer in Europe. Parents push their kids away from boxing nowadays and to safer sports like baseball. The guys I really wish we could get are the NFL players but they just get paid so much more even at an intermediate or journeyman level than most make in boxing nowadays.

yeah, this is definitely true especially in places like the USA, while in other countries boxing has risen to popularity that didn’t exist before, which is why we see many from the Philippines etc.

But I agree with you, of course more athletes venture to higher paying sports. Athletic inclined families are more likely to show their kids Ronaldo, Messi, Brady, etc. Than JCC or Sugar Ray.

So I actually do not disagree with you at all, you make great points. My only disagreement is at the very very top, the top tier in boxing is extremely specialist defined. Elite speed or an elite left hook, things like that, usually stuff you are born with. Those guys I think would fit at any point in time.

So if Ali, Fraser, Foreman etc. were born again today or Fury, Usyk, Lewis etc. We’re born 80 years ago, I believe that they would all be fighting each other as those guys have very specific skill sets and were destined to be fighters.

But it’s true that maybe the Michael grants of the boxing world wouldn’t have made it far in the times of Ali, as per your point.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

yeah, this is definitely true especially in places like the USA, while in other countries boxing has risen to popularity that didn’t exist before, which is why we see many from the Philippines etc.

But I agree with you, of course more athletes venture to higher paying sports. Athletic inclined families are more likely to show their kids Ronaldo, Messi, Brady, etc. Than JCC or Sugar Ray.

So I actually do not disagree with you at all, you make great points. My only disagreement is at the very very top, the top tier in boxing is extremely specialist defined. Elite speed or an elite left hook, things like that, usually stuff you are born with. Those guys I think would fit at any point in time.

So if Ali, Fraser, Foreman etc. were born again today or Fury, Usyk, Lewis etc. We’re born 80 years ago, I believe that they would all be fighting each other as those guys have very specific skill sets and were destined to be fighters.

But it’s true that maybe the Michael grants of the boxing world wouldn’t have made it far in the times of Ali, as per your point.

Yeah, I don't think an ATG NFL or MBA player would necessarily be an ATG boxer. Maybe though the mediocre player making a great payday might have been an ATG boxer if he had been steered differently as a youth.

 

[BoxingMMA]

Yeah, I don't think an ATG NFL or MBA player would necessarily be an ATG boxer. Maybe though the mediocre player making a great payday might have been an ATG boxer if he had been steered differently as a youth.

well, definitely possible for them to get a belt, that’s for sure, I just think that all the all time greats have the stuff early, you can tell right away since they are kids that they are destined to be boxers and I think those guys choose boxing. A good example is Roy Jones, the guy was athletically inclined and as far as I know was good in other sports but I remember one interview, he said how he simply felt he could do what Ali did. It’s like boxing just happened naturally for him. I think that’s what it takes to be an all time great and I simply have trouble seeing someone who wasn’t sure about boxing and decides to try another sport instead at a mediocre level, be destined to be an all time boxer. Especially since most all time boxers start boxing before 10.

But globally things are so different though, in the USA what you say is an actual issue and you make a green point. At the same time we have other countries that are finding out there’s money in boxing and more people try to do that, so I think it balances out in the end.

it’s like Ukraine with boxing right now, suddenly yo have young people there try to box since a young age while in the USA less and less kids are interested in it. It’s sad but what can we do? I just take solace in fighters like Canelo, fury, inoue, etc. who would clearly be all timers in any era.

Plus there is money in boxing, it’s not like the sport went away but it’ll never compare to a competitive team sport that’s watched by the whole country where an obese defense man makes millions a year just for standing there

 

[tekkennlee]

That could be it too, and these hypothetical cross generation fights are really impossible to know what would have happened, but nostalgia has always favored historic fighters. I remember watching a live panel from the Ali Frazier days where they were saying Dempsey would have taken Ali to school - now a days, that notion is laughable tho. That is just the way it goes, as nostalgia dies hard. In sports like track in field or strongman, we can tangibly measure that people are getting better, stronger and faster over time, but in boxing it is much more open to interpretation. Either all these other sports are moving on as the talent pool and world population explodes, people have access to better food and nutrition, training gets better, a college worth of education can be shared across the globe via a simple click of a button, or boxing has simply stayed the same/regressed where as all other sports have improved.

Usyk is considered a small heavyweight now, but even he was as large as Holmes. Holmes was 6'3 like Usyk but weighed anywhere from 209-215 during his prime. I am not sure what would have happened, but I am just not sure that Holmes does to Wilder what 6'9 280 Fury did. Maybe he sticks him with the jab all night but maybe he also gets put down and can not get up. Without a time machine, it is all just pony talk.

I think Tyson stops Ali because Ali had problems against that style, Ali made the mistake of pulling straight back with his head up high chin up, when Tyson catches him Ali isn't getting up, it's a style nightmare for Ali, Mike is way better faster smarter than Joe, I don't believe it's to difficult to pick that fight, I believe it's a fact, the evidence points to Ali getting stopped eventually against Mike.

Even prime Ali was getting caught with that left hook and dropped, Tyson was incredibly quick with incredible defense and tough as nails mean strong as an Ox and had a chin, that's a bad matchup for Ali.

Some fights from old school against new school boxers you basically know what would happen, but others are to difficult to pick both sides have great points because the outcome isn't clear.