There were 3 boxers with a Mensa IQ

[Yacob]

they are but in my opinion, anyone who screws around with those things is stupid, don't care what their iq is. I've seen too many people ruin their own and a lot of other lives. you don't have to be smart to avoid the shit. so,,,,it's something other than smart i would guess.

It is a stupid thing to do


But our actions don't always define us necessarily

 

[mozfonky]

Wait is that true?

absolutely. and near the bottom of his class. depending on who you talked to, he was a genius or an imbecile. Wilt chamberlain said something like "he can't even string together a coherent sentence" and mark kram stated he was "not very bright". he failed the army tests before they lowered their standards (he replied, "i said i was the greatest, never said i was the smartest") I used to think Ali didn't care about those kinds of things, but he did, later on he said that when they lowered their standards, "why did the make me look like a nut and embarrass my family then?".

 

[Yacob]

absolutely. and near the bottom of his class. depending on who you talked to, he was a genius or an imbecile. Wilt chamberlain said something like "he can't even string together a coherent sentence" and mark kram stated he was "not very bright". he failed the army tests before they lowered their standards (he replied, "i said i was the greatest, never said i was the smartest") I used to think Ali didn't care about those kinds of things, but he did, later on he said that when they lowered their standards, "why did the make me look like a nut and embarrass my family then?".

I would be more inclined to believe he faked being borderline retarded to say "fuck you" to the army.

He was in triple digits. His social iq was off the charts.

 

[mozfonky]

I would be more inclined to believe he faked being borderline retarded to say "fuck you" to the army.

He was in triple digits. His social iq was off the charts.

he wasn't book smart, a journalist asked him if he'd proofread his own autobiography and he leaned over and said "I've never read a book in my life". Means nothing really, like we're talking about. They say the iq's from a hundred years ago on average would be retarded today, like i say, means nothing. If anything, people in the past were more resourceful and hearty than we are, maybe healthier in a lot of cases too. I watch people, you take the average person today and strip him of his comforts and he's lost, so what's better? the hunter gatherers of yesterday, the farmers, or todays people who only know what they're told? all subjective.

 

[mozfonky]

w. jr. is another one who came across as fucking retarded, he really did. I have no clue what his iq was but he came across as dumb as hell. Mark Kram said that he put ali in the category of reagan, someone who was a dullard who he couldn't understand the spell they cast on the american nation. all subjective. Ali was brilliant in my mind and could have done a lot of other things in life outside of boxing. One more thing, Ali, in his early years was all consumed by boxing, take it from me, it's exhausting being an athlete and doing anything else, work/job/social life because all those other things will also be asking you to give just as much as you give to your sport and that's just not possible. So, it could be that Ali just went through the motions in school. I think the only reason they gave him a hs diploma was because the principal thought that someday he would be a great fighter and would reflect well on the school, not because he earned it.

 

[sweetviolenturg]

I was one of the individuals that my psychiatrist focused his medical journal article on back in 2016. His area of expertise is in adult ADD & it's treatment. So, in order to be a part of his study & the article I had to undergo a battery of physicals, scans, MRIs, neurological workups, psychiatric testing, etc.. One of which was a Stanford-Binet intelligence test on which I scored a 144. Which I was informed would qualify me for Mensa. Which is cool to know but I had/have no interest in joining. But it is fascinating to know that I could be in such elite company if I chose to join.
What's even more fascinating is that back in 1984 when Lou Duva put me in to spar with Czyz a few days before his fight with Mark Frazie that two fighters with such high IQs were in the same ring at the same time. It makes me wonder who had the higher score. He certainly won the sparring session by damn near knocked me out even though he was taking it easy on me because of the weight difference. I was just a welterweight at the time & Bobby was fighting at '68 at the time so that extra twenty pounds felt like a ton of bricks to me. Even though he wasn't really letting his shots go he still put me out on my feet at the end.
Anyhow, when we met up at a press luncheon for a Showtime card we were both working almost a decade later he still recalled that sparring session in Buffalo & we had a laugh about it.

 

[SandaKicker]

Where did you read Pico is in mensa?

My mistake it’s Aaron Stark who is the MMA fighter/MENSA member not Aaron Pico.

 

[droolingliver]

Not quite the heights of Mensa, however, Nathan Cleverly put boxing on hold to finish his pure maths degree.

His final year paper was named, 'Numerical Solutions of Elliptic Differential Equations'.

 

[s1ncity]

What is a mensa IQ?

130+??

 

[Yacob]

What is a mensa IQ?

130+??

Yeah like 132 i believe...googled it last night haha

 

[ConorFacts]

There are lots of dumbasses with high iq

my Uncle has an IQ of 90 (italy and in Germany 85). he studied physics in Germany. he loved programming and created an external hack for a Video game and made shit ton of Money.

I Always thought that his IQ was legit 150++ … i was shooked.

 

[Aerosol]

The extent to which it's a risk factor has been completely blown out of proportion.

There's a lot more evidence to suggest a severely Obese person will develop a neurodegenerative disease than there is to suggest a contact sports athlete will, even a boxer.

Anyone who regularly reads the New York Times CTE narrative would conclude that it would be impossible for a boxer to become a member of Mensa as an adult and yet these athletes are proof, maybe in the case of Aaron Pico he didn't start taking blows to the head until he was an adult but I'd guess these boxers started in their mid teens at the latest if not younger.

There are headlines which show brain shrinkage amongst contact sport athlete's, what they don't say is there is a bunch of other lifestyle factors have been repeatedly shown to cause brain shrinkage; chronic stress, pretty much any kind of drug abuse, poor sleeping habits, poor dietary choices, lack of exercise, high body fat etc.

AND that idiotic weight cut thing they do

 

[Aerosol]

my Uncle has an IQ of 90 (italy and in Germany 85). he studied physics in Germany. he loved programming and created an external hack for a Video game and made shit ton of Money.

I Always thought that his IQ was legit 150++ … i was shooked.

IQ is only one kind of intelligence
Not the most important by any means
I know people with almost no education that if left ANYWHERE for a month
Then you’d come back check on them and they 100% for sure are going to have something going and on their way to success
I have a pretty high IQ and I can’t do that
Not in a million years
Your uncle is actually way more intelligent than me

 

[RampageFaction]

I was talking about this with someone else on a different forum.

There’s so much BS in the media with regards to CTE and Neuroscience in general.

It’s not just boxers, football players, there’s an MMA fighter called Aaron Pico who is a member and there are hockey enforcers as well.

So many people think being a contact sports athlete will guarantee you are a dumbass and it’s simply not true.

I did a search on 3 of the first 5 doctors in that video. 2 of them worked, not directly, for the NFL. The third, Lili-naz Hazrati was working for the NHL and I believe she’s testifying for them in the deposition you see her in. I also found an article where she said a deceased NHL player didn’t have CTE, and she was found to be wrong by colleagues. I don’t have the time to watch the whole video but I will eventually. You can’t just believe people because they’re doctors. It’s akin to the GOP paying “scientists” for years to pretend climate change wasn’t real.

 

[Yacob]

my Uncle has an IQ of 90 (italy and in Germany 85). he studied physics in Germany. he loved programming and created an external hack for a Video game and made shit ton of Money.

I Always thought that his IQ was legit 150++ … i was shooked.

I want to believe you, bro...i really do

 

[SandaKicker]

I did a search on 3 of the first 5 doctors in that video. 2 of them worked, not directly, for the NFL. The third, Lili-naz Hazrati was working for the NHL and I believe she’s testifying for them in the deposition you see her in. I also found an article where she said a deceased NHL player didn’t have CTE, and she was found to be wrong by colleagues. I don’t have the time to watch the whole video but I will eventually. You can’t just believe people because they’re doctors. It’s akin to the GOP paying “scientists” for years to pretend climate change wasn’t real.

Fair enough.

But as a counter I’d say this article “a call for balance” on CTE reporting was signed off by 60 Neurologists, only 4 or 5 of them disclosed a conflict of interest as them being affiliated with a major sports org.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laneur/article/PIIS1474-4422(19)30020-1/fulltext

If anything ever gets out about them accepting money from a sports org their career is over.

With regards to Lili-Naz Hazrati.

She has been featured in a New York Times article which might have been the one you found. This was condemned in the Lancet article, singled out as probably the most misrepresentative piece of media aside from the Hollywood film.

The Washington Post actually did a decent piece on CTE a couple of weeks ago;

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/sports/cte-bennet-omalu/

They said this of a CTE diagnosis;

“Omalu often uses the phrase tested positive for CTE, implying the process is black and white, akin to a pregnancy test. In reality, diagnosing CTE is far more complicated, more like looking out into a starry night and spotting a constellation”.

I believe the case you are talking about with Hazrati being contradicted by her colleagues is the Todd Ewen case. Hazrati did her testing of the Ewen brain and found no CTE, she then sent it out to five other Neuropathologists who all found no CTE.

The Ewen brain was sent to Boston university who found CTE. They then sent a scan or pictures of their findings to the Mayo clinic who said that looks like CTE but they weren’t sent the full Ewen brain.

So Hazrati was in the majority when she couldn’t find CTE. Professor Rudy Castellani speculated that the region of the frontal lobe that looked affected was likely the region people with epilepsy get taken out and don’t notice hence the other Neuropathologists didn’t look that closely at the area.

 

[RampageFaction]

Fair enough.

But as a counter I’d say this article “a call for balance” on CTE reporting was signed off by 60 Neurologists, only 4 or 5 of them disclosed a conflict of interest as them being affiliated with a major sports org.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laneur/article/PIIS1474-4422(19)30020-1/fulltext

If anything ever gets out about them accepting money from a sports org their career is over.

With regards to Lili-Naz Hazrati.

She has been featured in a New York Times article which might have been the one you found. This was condemned in the Lancet article, singled out as probably the most misrepresentative piece of media aside from the Hollywood film.

The Washington Post actually did a decent piece on CTE a couple of weeks ago;

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/sports/cte-bennet-omalu/

They said this of a CTE diagnosis;

“Omalu often uses the phrase tested positive for CTE, implying the process is black and white, akin to a pregnancy test. In reality, diagnosing CTE is far more complicated, more like looking out into a starry night and spotting a constellation”.

I believe the case you are talking about with Hazrati being contradicted by her colleagues is the Todd Ewen case. Hazrati did her testing of the Ewen brain and found no CTE, she then sent it out to five other Neuropathologists who all found no CTE.

The Ewen brain was sent to Boston university who found CTE. They then sent a scan or pictures of their findings to the Mayo clinic who said that looks like CTE but they weren’t sent the full Ewen brain.

So Hazrati was in the majority when she couldn’t find CTE. Professor Rudy Castellani speculated that the region of the frontal lobe that looked affected was likely the region people with epilepsy get taken out and don’t notice hence the other Neuropathologists didn’t look that closely at the area.

Fair enough, so do you agree Ewen actually did have CTE in the “early stages?”

 

[eddi]

Bobby Czyz
Henry Milligan
Nicky Piper

As some of you may remember once we talked about Czyz being one so I just did a quick google to see what other athletes are there, and this came up surprisingly.
Cool trivia personally, as a hardcore boxing fan.

For those who don't know, Mensa is a club for those who score on the top 2% internationally recognized IQ tests.

what about the klitschkos ?

 

[SandaKicker]

Fair enough, so do you agree Ewen actually did have CTE in the “early stages?”

From what I understand most of the experts in the field are saying it's very hard to determine if the amount of CTE found in Ewen's would be significant enough to cause any symptoms.

Obviously Ewen had psychiatric symptoms as he committed suicide but it's not uncommon for people who commit suicide to have a structurally perfect brain.

I agree that some degree of Neurofibrillary tangles were found in the frontal lobe of Ewen.

The lack of evidence that Neurofibrillary tangles cause symptoms is deemed credible enough in the scientific community for papers to get published saying CTE is not a real disease;

https://academic.oup.com/acn/article/33/5/644/5087832

The older studies on dementia puglistica found far more structural abnormalities in the brains of those believed to have it;

There was a review article on CTE by Andrew Gardner which looked at all the cases of CTE going back to Dementia Puglistica in the 1920's and looking at cases in the 40's, 50's and 60's etc. He stated;

"There are critical differences in age of onset, progression, clinical features, pathological findings and diagnostic criteria that suggest we might be dealing with two or more conditions"

So basically there might be two or more other diseases that are both related to blows to the head that are currently undiscovered;

https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/48/2/84.full

I'm not convinced Tau tangles actually do anything negative and if they do it's likely something mild.

If you look at this study it found that NFL players were outliving people of the general population;

https://n.neurology.org/content/79/19/1970.short

So if they can find Tau tangles in 99% of NFL players and the players are outliving people of the general population then it's hard to believe the particular isofrom of phosphorylated Tau they are looking at actually does anything.

 

[RampageFaction]

From what I understand most of the experts in the field are saying it's very hard to determine if the amount of CTE found in Ewen's would be significant enough to cause any symptoms.

Obviously Ewen had psychiatric symptoms as he committed suicide but it's not uncommon for people who commit suicide to have a structurally perfect brain.

I agree that some degree of Neurofibrillary tangles were found in the frontal lobe of Ewen.

The lack of evidence that Neurofibrillary tangles cause symptoms is deemed credible enough in the scientific community for papers to get published saying CTE is not a real disease;

https://academic.oup.com/acn/article/33/5/644/5087832

The older studies on dementia puglistica found far more structural abnormalities in the brains of those believed to have it;

There was a review article on CTE by Andrew Gardner which looked at all the cases of CTE going back to Dementia Puglistica in the 1920's and looking at cases in the 40's, 50's and 60's etc. He stated;

"There are critical differences in age of onset, progression, clinical features, pathological findings and diagnostic criteria that suggest we might be dealing with two or more conditions"

So basically there might be two or more other diseases that are both related to blows to the head that are currently undiscovered;

https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/48/2/84.full

I'm not convinced Tau tangles actually do anything negative and if they do it's likely something mild.

If you look at this study it found that NFL players were outliving people of the general population;

https://n.neurology.org/content/79/19/1970.short

So if they can find Tau tangles in 99% of NFL players and the players are outliving people of the general population then it's hard to believe the particular isofrom of phosphorylated Tau they are looking at actually does anything.

That’s going a little deeper than I’m comfortable with. The original intent of my post was to highlight that a lot of the deniers are on the payrolls of sports leagues.

What I can say is that not everybody reacts the same to way. We’re all different and I agree that, at times, the media tries to pin everything on CTE. On the flip side, these CTE deniers are just as bad. I really don’t see how a doctor could deny it’s existence and effect. Saying Bennett omalu was incorrect in saying an athlete “tested positive” is one thing, but denying that tau proteins cause problems in cognition and memory is another.

I’m not sure of the significance of showing that NFLers live longer than the general population. It’s about the quality of those years and whether or not CTE is contributing to that. If you live to be 90 but can’t find your way home from age 45, who cares? The major problem with all of this is most of these cases are sports related and no sports organization wants to deal with liability so they’re actively trying to downplay and muddy the waters. I’m of the opinion that in this day and age as an athlete....it’s on you. The resources to educate yourself are out there at your disposal so I just don’t understand the tactics of sports leagues, the NHL in particular.

Also, from what I read in that study by Christopher Randolph, is he not simply saying that “CTE isn’t a real disease, but concussions from football can cause Alzheimer’s and other neurological diseases?” Should we just call CTE pugilistica dementia?

And correct me if I’m wrong, the journal you quoted with the article by Randolph, is that a peer reviewed journal? I don’t think it is. Look for a peer reviewed journal that says CTE doesn’t exist.