There is 809,308 Cops in the USA, 130 deaths. There is 38,929,319 Black people, 306 Killed by cops

[KoRnBizkit]

 

[Fedorable]

Well deaths don't = danger.

Good tactics probably keep police alive more than can be calculated, but on a whole-the job has a lower probability of death than most believe. On the other hand, two cops I personally knew were killed. One was ran over during a DUI stop and the other one, which I did a podcast with, was shot in the head.

 

[Fedorable]

How many unjustified police killings of blacks have there been in the last year?

4 or 5. Some were accidental discharges.

 

[foxnoob]

Rarely do I see a TS fall flat on his face on page 1 as horrificly as this. Wont read shit else the TS has to say until he respects other peoples time enough to learn how percentages work. Aka never, stupidity doesnt wash away that easy.

 

[Gunny]

I understand but desk duty and being arrested/held while an investigation is conducted are very different things. I shoot a guy in what I consider self-defense, I'm being brought in for questioning, likely to be arrested and possibly being held if I can't make bail, etc. I don't get to walk back to my car, drive back to work and wait for my brothers to decide if I should get in trouble.

There's a huge difference in how those differences are perceived. Desk duty is like telling a violent restaurant host that their punishment is that they have to wait tables or tend bar. Or punishing a child molesting priest by reassigning him to another parish while you look into it (I'm not comparing the severity of the crimes here, only the methodology of "reassigning" someone compared to how we treat the general population).

While I'll assume you description of procedures for police shootings is accurate, where's the racial element? Are you saying the cop who shoots a white person is arrested while the one who shoots a black person only gets desk duty?

 

[panamaican]

While I'll assume you description of procedures for police shootings is accurate, where's the racial element? Are you saying the cop who shoots a white person is arrested while the one who shoots a black person only gets desk duty?

I specifically didn't add a racial element.

If you're asking for one then the area where you might find a racial element is simply in the aspect that black neighborhoods are more heavily policed thus increasing the amount of times that an officer will overstep their bounds while interacting with a black citizen (suspect or otherwise) and thus increasing the times that some kind of police malfeasance is perceived as inadequately investigated.

The racial component to these issues certainly exists but it's so complex and interwoven with historical treatment issues that it's impossible to separate where the feedback loop begins in the modern era (although you can find a starting point if you're willing to go back to the post-Civil War era or the Nixon era War on Drugs (the more we learn, the more Nixon's overall negative impact on race relations in this country becomes apparent).

 

[Deleted member 159002]

I specifically didn't add a racial element.

If you're asking for one then the area where you might find a racial element is simply in the aspect that black neighborhoods are more heavily policed thus increasing the amount of times that an officer will overstep their bounds while interacting with a black citizen (suspect or otherwise) and thus increasing the times that some kind of police malfeasance is perceived as inadequately investigated.

The racial component to these issues certainly exists but it's so complex and interwoven with historical treatment issues that it's impossible to separate where the feedback loop begins in the modern era (although you can find a starting point if you're willing to go back to the post-Civil War era or the Nixon era War on Drugs (the more we learn, the more Nixon's overall negative impact on race relations in this country becomes apparent).

There's also a lot more violent crime in black neighborhoods. Do you think the police presence in every neighborhood should be the same, regardless of homicides per year per square mile? Wouldn't THAT then be used for an accusation of racism? "Black neighborhoods have way more violent crime, but society devotes the amount of resources to fighting crime in black neighborhoods that would only suffice in nonblack neighborhoods."

 

[panamaican]

There's also a lot more violent crime in black neighborhoods. Do you think the police presence in every neighborhood should be the same, regardless of homicides per year per square mile? Wouldn't THAT then be used for an accusation of racism? "Black neighborhoods have way more violent crime, but society devotes the amount of resources to fighting crime in black neighborhoods that would only suffice in nonblack neighborhoods."

Like I said - feedback loop. You police a neighborhood more, you'll arrest more criminals there.

Factually - there isn't more violent crime in black neighborhoods. There's more violent crime in white neighborhoods. There's more disproportionate crime rates in black neighborhoods. But not more actual crime. But if you focus your policing efforts on an area (regardless of race), you're going to catch more criminals there than elsewhere.

 

[JosephDredd]

Yet both these groups act like they have the most dangerous lives ever.

130 cops died in 2015 on the job. Cops have a probability of .00016063105 chance of dying on the job, keep in mind I kept heart attack and accidental deaths.

Leaving accidents off....65 deaths, so thats .00008031552 chance of dying


Cops killed by actual gun fire = 39....That's 0.00004818931 chance of dying.


Now lets look at black people killed by cops.

306 black people were killed by the police in 2015. The probability of getting killed by a cop is .00000786039 chance ....Keep in mind I kept both armed/unarmed black people.

102 unarmed black people were killed by the police in 2015. The probability of an unarmed black person getting killed by a cop is 0.00000262013 chance.



So whats my point? Both sides are fucking exaggerating the danger of their lives


The Cop brotherhood acts as if their lives are always in danger, thus they are dicks/shoot way too quickly....Fact is that it really isn't that dangerous to be a cop, at least not as much as they portray it to be. It's obvious that some cops are trigger happy because they are big fucking pussies. Not all of them but a few of them.


As for black people, again the odds of getting killed are really low, it's really a non issue. Now Cop discrimination/brutality is a whole other issue that might actually have higher rates but as for actual cops killing, it's really not this huge problem that people like to portray it as.

The fact is that media is making a huge deal out of little numbers, sensationalism at it's finest.....They use words as "Black people are 20x more likely to get shot" which makes it seem like is a huge fucking number but it isn't, and cops use lines like "We have the most dangerous job, we can't take any chances" which makes it seems like it's necessary for cops to be trigger happy.

Of course then the politicians come in on these issues to take sides, Republicans with Cops/Democrats with blacks; then they divide the people over something that statistically is insignificant. An easy ass issue where you choose a side and avoid the real complex issues that actually affect the majority of the population.

It's fucking ridiculous how both sides are exaggerating their difficulties...It's ridiculous how people focus on this minuscule problem when there is real fucking problems.


Both sides are literally filled with pussies screaming "we have it harder".


Yes it's fucked up that cops get killed and black people get killed by cops...but lets be honest, that doesn't give the right to cops to be completely pussies/be trigger happy and that doesn't give the right to black people to act like they are getting slaughtered(most of the blacks killed were literally asking for it).


Sorry guys just pure facts here.


My sources

Cops killed in 2015 https://www.odmp.org/search/year/2015

Cops in the USA this was in 2008, best I could do, sorry https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_dependencies_by_number_of_police_officers


Blacks killed in 2015, could be disputed but I went with the higher number


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...by-police-america_us_577da633e4b0c590f7e7fb17

Unarmed blacks killed
http://mappingpoliceviolence.org/unarmed/

Numbers of blacks in the USA

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_the_United_States



So please stop with the sensationalism....Focus on better things...and check your privilege, Cops/Black People.


I know it's easy to get caught up on choosing sides with people killing eachother but we have more important issues to worry about.

I disagree. Blacks are unhappy because the numbers show a hugely disproportionate use of force between minorities and whites. The killings are just the angry icing on the angry cake by a LOT of people who have received needlessly physically abusive treatment by police. For some reason people assume that angry protestors have no connection to the victim... but they do. The abuse of police violence touches them all and and many needlessly die because of it. This is why they feel it could be any of them.

 

[berimBOWLoh]

its not about the deaths, that is just the ultimate consequence of the harrassment.


its about real equality as a person. either we want to have that or we judge ppl by groups. which is it????

 

[Lord Commander Palis]

It's not understandable for LEO to be trigger happy, it's not how were trained...

Bitch fit thread

 

[Deleted member 159002]

Like I said - feedback loop. You police a neighborhood more, you'll arrest more criminals there.

Factually - there isn't more violent crime in black neighborhoods. There's more violent crime in white neighborhoods. There's more disproportionate crime rates in black neighborhoods. But not more actual crime. But if you focus your policing efforts on an area (regardless of race), you're going to catch more criminals there than elsewhere.

When you say there's more violent crime in white neighborhoods, (assuming it's true) you're making a trivial point. The average black neighborhood is a lot more violent than the average nonblack neighborhood. Hence black neighborhoods on average having a heavier police presence.

Regarding a feedback loop, I don't think police are causing people to commit homicide.

 

[panamaican]

When you say there's more violent crime in white neighborhoods, (assuming it's true) you're making a trivial point. The average black neighborhood is a lot more violent than the average nonblack neighborhood. Hence black neighborhoods on average having a heavier police presence.

Regarding a feedback loop, I don't think police are causing people to commit homicide.

How is the amount of actual crime a trivial point when discussing crime?

 

[Deleted member 159002]

How is the amount of actual crime a trivial point when discussing crime?

Lets say there are 100 million white people and 10 million black people. Each year say 6000 homicides occur in white neighborhoods, 5000 occur in black neighborhoods. Given the ratios of population to homicides, black neighborhoods absolutely are more violent than white neighborhoods. It makes sense that more violent communities have greater police presences. Or do you think every square mile of inhabited earth in this country should have the same number of cops, regardless of its violent crime rate?

 

[panamaican]

Lets say there are 100 million white people and 10 million black people. Each year say 6000 homicides occur in white neighborhoods, 5000 occur in black neighborhoods. Given the ratios of population to homicides, black neighborhoods absolutely are more violent than white neighborhoods. It makes sense that more violent communities have greater police presences. Or do you think every square mile of inhabited earth in this country should have the same number of cops, regardless of its violent crime rate?

But that's not what's happening. Which is why I said feedback loop earlier. You police a neighborhood more aggressively of course you're going to get more arrests there. But that doesn't mean that there's more crime there.

So to expand your analogy. 100 million white people, 10 million black people. You put 80 cops in the black neighborhood and 20 cops in the white neighborhood. Each cop makes 5 arrests. So you get 400 criminals in the black neighborhood and 100 in the white neighborhood.

But you don't actually know if the black neighborhood actually has more crime or if you're just catching more of those criminals because you've allocated more cops to look there.

Yet because you caught 400 criminals in the black neighborhood you now assign more of your new cops to that neighborhood. They catch more criminals...because you're spending more money, time and manpower, looking in those neighborhoods. That's a self-sustaining cycle where assigning more effort yields more results thus justifying assigning more effort.

This is where some effort should be spent looking at the historical side of things.

 

[KONG-D'SNT-TAP]

Police don't even have a top 10 most dangerous job in America.

 

[dontsnitch]

Police don't even have a top 10 most dangerous job in America.

And the odds of being killed by a cop is a fraction of a percent, so what is anyone talking about?

 

[klnOmega]

Yet both these groups act like they have the most dangerous lives ever.

130 cops died in 2015 on the job. Cops have a probability of .00016063105 chance of dying on the job, keep in mind I kept heart attack and accidental deaths.

That's per year. Over a 40 year career, you chance of dying on the job is going to be like an order of magnitude greater than that.

 

[Deleted member 159002]

But that's not what's happening.

Yes, it is what's happening. Despite making up a much smaller portion of the population, blacks commit almost as many total murders as whites.

Which is why I said feedback loop earlier. You police a neighborhood more aggressively of course you're going to get more arrests there. But that doesn't mean that there's more crime there.

So to expand your analogy. 100 million white people, 10 million black people. You put 80 cops in the black neighborhood and 20 cops in the white neighborhood. Each cop makes 5 arrests. So you get 400 criminals in the black neighborhood and 100 in the white neighborhood.

But you don't actually know if the black neighborhood actually has more crime or if you're just catching more of those criminals because you've allocated more cops to look there.

Yet because you caught 400 criminals in the black neighborhood you now assign more of your new cops to that neighborhood. They catch more criminals...because you're spending more money, time and manpower, looking in those neighborhoods. That's a self-sustaining cycle where assigning more effort yields more results thus justifying assigning more effort.

This is where some effort should be spent looking at the historical side of things.

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u....f_vicitm_by_race_and_sex_of_offender_2013.xls

Even if the killers in the 102 homicides where the killer's race unknown were white, blacks would still have committed murder at a much higher rate than whites.

Your theory that suburbia is just as dangerous as places like Baltimore, Chicago, or Oakland -- the data just do not reflect it because there are so many murders in white neighborhoods that are unsolved due to lack of enough police resources in them -- is not convincing.

 

[Thai Otoshi]

I agree but it kind of misses the point.

The odds of the cop killer being prosecuted are pretty good. The odds of the killing cop being prosecuted aren't as good. That's the actual concern. If cops that engage in unjustified killings were summarily prosecuted and convicted then most of this conversation never happens.

It doesn't help that the people who would be responsible for charging any LEOs with abuses (DA's office) are also the ones who have to closely work with the police. Massive conflict of interest.