The way of Conor McGreggor. The future is now. Amazing new HL!

[Jin Akutsu]

Im not sure if Connor is really that good of a kicker. He is not bad, but not elite in his kicks.

He uses them more to bait an over-commitment or to shoot for a takedown but hes landed a few nice ones.

 

[Boxingislife]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume that you're a huge boxing fan, but know comparatively little about grappling?

Yes, Conor is most definitely a smoother striker than Jones. But inversely, Jones is most definitely a better wrestler/grappler than Conor. At least, in proven competition thus far.

Jones just outwrestled an Olympic wrestler. He's outstruck expert strikers (whether it was because of reach is irrelevant, the point is, he did it). He's submitted black belts. He's done it all and he's done it at the highest levels possible.

I'm a big Conor fan too, and it's fine if you prefer him to Jones, but to say that you're completely unimpressed with Jones? That's a bit absurd. IMO, Jones couldn't be more impressive. Neither could Conor.


As an aside, I find the argument about Jones' reach to be an interesting one. Yes, it's an incredible advantage, and it's gift he was born with. But every great fighter has gifts they are born with. Conor, for example, has incredibly fluid movement and impeccable timing, which gives him his KO power. Now, of course, Conor has had to work very hard to maximize his advantages (just as Jones has had to learn to master the use of his reach), but Conor's also obviously got a natural talent. There are plenty of other fighters who could train twice as hard, for twice as long, and would never reach the fluidity and timing of Conor. It's a gift he's born with. But because fluidity and timing are not things you can boil down to a number like reach, people are far more forgiving of it.

I just find it interesting.

I appreciate your civil response

I like you as a poster now: ) BUT I cant change how I truly feel or deny what I see

Who has Jones ever out struck in a pure striking contest?

Its always due to his ground game, or the threat of his TD

I mean Gus was able to keep the fight on the feet and Gus completely boxed Jones' ears off and made Jones look like a slow plodding amature

Think about this

Shogun landed more significant punches against Gus in 3 rounds, than Jones landed against Gus in 5 rounds

What sperates Jones from the rest IS NOT skill, power or heart....its just size and reach...in MMA size and reach unfortunately is everything

And NO, I wont even give Jones credit for the fact he "uses his reach so well"...because Jones uses his reach to keep his opponents at bay with drity eye rake/eye pokes and oblique kicks

I find nothing truly impressive about Jones skill set...i cant even stand to watch him fight....*eye rake, oblique kick, eye poke, goofy elbow or spinning elbow, rinse and repeat*


Jones greatest factor his reach was something he never had to work for

Meanwhile you BET Conor spent a lot of time and hard work perfecting his movement, timimg, countering etc...Conor IS PURE SKILL

 

[kic**]

He uses them more to bait an over-commitment or to shoot for a takedown but hes landed a few nice ones.

Yeah, not bad, not bad.

 

[Boxingislife]

You let me huh? :icon_lol: Fair enough.



I remember Swick's run. He has fast hands but was never as technical as Conor. The 'master of movement' talk isn't a gimmick but that buzz phrase is something of a glittering generality that's certainly marketable given the way he can move (and fight). He's calling himself an expert in movement, and he's talking fighting mainly, since techniques are obviously movements themselves (whether they're subtle or major). I do agree with time telling us though. I'm just very inclined to believe that he'll pass the tests. The reason I do believe this is because of how dedicated he is to everything in MMA, he's really passionate about the intricacies and granular technical details.



Yep, he entered with the left cross and already had his lead shoulder raised up to help protect the left side of his chin from Dustin's right hand. It wasn't tucked tight behind his shoulder because then he wouldn't have been able to see what he was punching in the first place but it was protected well enough on that side and served it's purpose. After he started to reel himself back into his stance he assumed that Dustin would throw from his other side (Dustin's left hand), which most MMA fighters throw left then right or right then left and rarely lever their punches from the same side, so he anticipated that and rolled/faded/pulled back his head and chin from the punch as it came in (tucking it into his left shoulder to help brace his neck from getting snapped to the side/dilapidated from the blow), which is standard rolling procedure. He made sure that he was on the end of the punch too, enough to where rolling his head/chin with the punch's momentum would succeed and not fail (if Dustin was a bit closer or stepped in then that would've been bad).



Him and Anderson Silva are my two favorites in terms of smooth, fluid, graceful, flowing rhythm and movement. Both are light on their feet, fleet of foot and have really good footwork as well, which is important. You can have the best movement ever and it won't matter if you have shit footwork that's driving that linear and lateral movement. Conor is always in the gym till like 1 AM, he's the most dedicated I've seen since GSP.

I could see Conor changing head slots with the straight left to the body. Thats what made it work

Keeping his chin behind his shoulder was good form too, already in prepartion to deflect off his shoulder

Also, Conor using arm control, like jab to the chest, to pevent Dustin from stepping in was really smart

 

[Just a username]

Nice HL.

Sick of McGregor though. The reckoning is coming soon...

 

[Boxingislife]

You let me huh? :icon_lol: Fair enough.



I remember Swick's run. He has fast hands but was never as technical as Conor. The 'master of movement' talk isn't a gimmick but that buzz phrase is something of a glittering generality that's certainly marketable given the way he can move (and fight). He's calling himself an expert in movement, and he's talking fighting mainly, since techniques are obviously movements themselves (whether they're subtle or major). I do agree with time telling us though. I'm just very inclined to believe that he'll pass the tests. The reason I do believe this is because of how dedicated he is to everything in MMA, he's really passionate about the intricacies and granular technical details.



Yep, he entered with the left cross and already had his lead shoulder raised up to help protect the left side of his chin from Dustin's right hand. It wasn't tucked tight behind his shoulder because then he wouldn't have been able to see what he was punching in the first place but it was protected well enough on that side and served it's purpose. After he started to reel himself back into his stance he assumed that Dustin would throw from his other side (Dustin's left hand), which most MMA fighters throw left then right or right then left and rarely lever their punches from the same side, so he anticipated that and rolled/faded/pulled back his head and chin from the punch as it came in (tucking it into his left shoulder to help brace his neck from getting snapped to the side/dilapidated from the blow), which is standard rolling procedure. He made sure that he was on the end of the punch too, enough to where rolling his head/chin with the punch's momentum would succeed and not fail (if Dustin was a bit closer or stepped in then that would've been bad).



Him and Anderson Silva are my two favorites in terms of smooth, fluid, graceful, flowing rhythm and movement. Both are light on their feet, fleet of foot and have really good footwork as well, which is important. You can have the best movement ever and it won't matter if you have shit footwork that's driving that linear and lateral movement. Conor is always in the gym till like 1 AM, he's the most dedicated I've seen since GSP.

You might not like what I have to say about Anderson lol

The thing was Anderson would only counter

Anderson COULD NOT lead. Conor can lead (as well as counter)

In fact, when opponents wouldnt fall for Anderson's antics and not over commit, Anderson would just completely shut down

Anderson would do dangerous things to get opponents to chase him, like put his hamds down and taunt etc..NO defensive responsibility

The difference in Conor is staggering, he always maintains defensive responsibility...if he wants an opponent to give chase so he can counter he will bait flashy moves that dont leave him exposed. If that doesnt work, Conor can lead and create openings...just more complete, versatile, smarter, more defensively sound than Anderson ever was..Ive always said Conor was like an evolved smarter southpaw version of Anderson

 

[milenss]

Conor is a special human being. He's from that new breed of fighters. He's the only man who reminds me very much of Fedor Emelianenko when it comes to talent and fighting instincts. Pure GOAT in the making.

 

[Boxingislife]

Yeah, not bad, not bad.

Even his kicks are really F'N good. Good fluid technique and tourque

 

[INTERL0PER]

I appreciate your civil response

I like you as a poster now: ) BUT I cant change how I truly feel or deny what I see

Who has Jones ever out struck in a pure striking contest?

Its always due to his ground game, or the threat of his TD

I mean Gus was able to keep the fight on the feet and Gus completely boxed Jones' ears off and made Jones look like a slow plodding amature

Think about this

Shogun landed more significant punches against Gus in 3 rounds, than Jones landed against Gus in 5 rounds

What sperates Jones from the rest IS NOT skill, power or heart....its just size and reach...in MMA size and reach unfortunately is everything

And NO, I wont even give Jones credit for the fact he "uses his reach so well"...because Jones uses his reach to keep his opponents at bay with drity eye rake/eye pokes and oblique kicks

I find nothing truly impressive about Jones skill set...i cant even stand to watch him fight....*eye rake, oblique kick, eye poke, goofy elbow or spinning elbow, rinse and repeat*


Jones greatest factor his reach was something he never had to work for

Meanwhile you BET Conor spent a lot of time and hard work perfecting his movement, timimg, countering etc...Conor IS PURE SKILL

Again, I think the issue here is your bias toward striking. You like what you like, and that's fine, but this is MMA, not kickboxing. So, to me, it doesn't matter that Jones' boxing is sub par, because his MMA game is amazing. I also don't care if it was reach/threat of the TD/ground game, the fact is that Jones beat the absolute shit out of a lot great fighters both standing and on the ground.

He tore up Shogun on the feet and the ground, he dropped Machida with a superman punch counter (which you ignore, saying Jones has no countering ability), he dropped Vitor with a sidekick to the body, he rocked Rampage, he rocked Gus (Gus obviously did very well in that fight too, but he never rocked Jones), he smashed Glover in close too where his reach was not a factor.

I'd also like to point out a little double standard that you share with many people on this board. You criticize Jones for being successful purely due to size, and use the Gus fight as an example of him finally fighting someone his size... while neglecting the fact that the same is true of Gus. The only time he's struggled is when he fought someone his size. You can't slate Jones for having an advantage while simultaneously ignoring that Gus has the same advantage.... and hey, "think about this", Jones finished Shogun inside of 3 rounds with barely a scratch on him, where, as you say, Shogun managed to land plenty of strikes against Gus, and made it to see the decision.

And even if you refuse to acknowledge Jones talents... then isn't it still impressive that this talentless hack has had such phenomenal success? Hasn't he just made the absolute most of his physical gifts, to make up for his lack of "talent and skill"?

You say that MMA is all about size and reach. Ok, if that's the case, please explain to me why Dan Hornbuckle, Stefan Struve and Kendal Grove haven't become champions and defended the belt against every shape and size of challenger possible.

Size and reach is most definitely a factor, and Jones most definitely has an advantage there... but it's not everything. Not even close. Jones has talent, skill and heart for days. If you STILL can't see that, well, there's not much I can do, I guess.


And again, to be clear, I'm not trying to downplay the abilities of Conor (or Gus, for that matter), just trying to show you the light in terms of Bones' brilliance

 

[Got GOAT]

Conor's also obviously got a natural talent. There are plenty of other fighters who could train twice as hard, for twice as long, and would never reach the fluidity and timing of Conor. It's a gift he's born with. But because fluidity and timing are not things you can boil down to a number like reach, people are far more forgiving of it.

Both can be highly developed and worked on to become better but yeah he isn't the typical fighter. I know amateur and pro boxers that've been boxing for 20, even 30 years and they can't move like that. There's plenty of pros that can't move that well either. Anderson and Gustafsson are the only other guys in the UFC that I've seen with somewhat comparably graceful and fluid movement. These 3 guys are all light on their feet, and due to that even quicker than their opponents on them (fleet of foot), with that high level movement. I've seen a couple others move well but not like that, though TJ Dillashaw is an honorable mention.

Remember, it worked because Conor had changed head slots with the straight left to the body

Keeping his chin behind his shoulder was good form too, already in prepartion to deflect off his shoulder

Yeah. He knows what he's doing. I made that thread about it and sure enough most people thought that I was trying to nitpick and say that he got hit without being able to properly defend himself. That's the thing about rolling the head/chin on it's own (without the shoulder up), when most people see a fighter get touched dead on they automatically assume that it hurt or could've hurt the fighter, because all they do see is a fighter getting hit. They don't realize how much force was taken away before it's impact with the head roll and staying at the end of the punch.

 

[Got GOAT]

You might not like what I have to say about Anderson lol

The thing was Anderson would only counter

Anderson COULD NOT lead. Conor can lead (as well as counter)

In fact, when opponents wouldnt fall for Anderson's antics and not over commit, Anderson would just completely shut down

Anderson would do dangerous things to get opponents to chase him, like put his hamds down and taunt etc..NO defensive responsibility

The difference in Conor is staggering, he always maintains defensive responsibility...if he wants an opponent to give chase so he can counter he will bait flashy moves that dont leave him exposed. If that doesnt work, Conor can lead and create openings...just more complete, versatile, smarter, more defensively sound than Anderson ever was..Ive always said Conor was like an evolved smarter southpaw version of Anderson

Oh I know, he's horrible at leading. LOL. I'm not an Anderson fan, I just like how fluid/smooth his movement is. As for the defense, I agree. Anderson can pull off some higher level evasive defensive maneuvers against predictable strikes, where Conor has done it with trickier offense and still made it work well. Conor's spatial awareness and ability to read his opponents' attacks is even better from what I've seen from him.

 

[IrishFighterLA]

If u cant see a future champ in that, you cant see one anywhere..

 

[Boxingislife]

Again, I think the issue here is your bias toward striking. You like what you like, and that's fine, but this is MMA, not kickboxing. So, to me, it doesn't matter that Jones' boxing is sub par, because his MMA game is amazing. I also don't care if it was reach/threat of the TD/ground game, the fact is that Jones beat the absolute shit out of a lot great fighters both standing and on the ground.

He tore up Shogun on the feet and the ground, he dropped Machida with a superman punch counter (which you ignore, saying Jones has no countering ability), he dropped Vitor with a sidekick to the body, he rocked Rampage, he rocked Gus (Gus obviously did very well in that fight too, but he never rocked Jones), he smashed Glover in close too where his reach was not a factor.

I'd also like to point out a little double standard that you share with many people on this board. You criticize Jones for being successful purely due to size, and use the Gus fight as an example of him finally fighting someone his size... while neglecting the fact that the same is true of Gus. The only time he's struggled is when he fought someone his size. You can't slate Jones for having an advantage while simultaneously ignoring that Gus has the same advantage.

And even if you refuse to acknowledge Jones talents... then isn't it still impressive that this talentless hack has had such phenomenal success? Hasn't he just made the absolute most of his physical gifts, to make up for his lack of "talent and skill"?

You say that MMA is all about size and reach. Ok, if that's the case, please explain to me why Dan Hornbuckle, Stefan Struve and Kendal Grove haven't become champions and defended the belt against every shape and size of challenger possible.

Youre post essentially boils down to:

"I dont care that his boxing is subpar. I dont care that hes just reach...na na na na doesnt matter" etc

Its like, hello. Its ALL ABOUT HIS REACH. His boxing being SUB PAR IS A BIG THING... as the Gus fight proved.

how convenient, any of Jones flaws simply don't matter to you and no one should care...BUT we should praise his "MMA game" and everything else....

You nor any Jones fan is going to change my opinion. You can "think" what you want. I see what I see.

Reach is clearly EVERYTHING to Jones. Jones cares. And its why he gameplans around his reach

Yes, Gus has the size too, BUT HE ALSO HAS the skill. He out skillled Jones completely. That should be enough to adress that

And NO Jones ONLY tore Shogun up on the ground. That fight was 3 rounds YET only about 5% of it took place on the feet. Jones ONLY landed ONE meaningful strike on the feet while Shogun was "fresh"- a suprise freak knee

Also, Machida won the first round against Jones purely on the feet. Jomes had to get a TD to change the momentum of the fight and simply went on to catch Machida

Theres ASLO ONE BIG FACT youre ignoring, Shogun and Machida WERE FAR SMALLER than Jones. Jones beat them via his size and reach

Like I SAID GUS was the first to match Jones in size so It finally came down to skill vs skill with Jones and Jones failed miserably without his size and reach advantages to rely on. Thats the point

Jones IS where hes at because of his size, reach, discipline , coaching, gameplanning...nothing more

YOU NAME ME ONE fighter who was as big for their division as Jones is for LHW. Exactly

Per fight Jones averages more reach, height, and weight over his opponents THAN ANY ONE in MMA ever

Thats WHY Jones size and reach are a huge deal for him

 

[Boxingislife]

Oh I know, he's horrible at leading. LOL. I'm not an Anderson fan, I just like how fluid/smooth his movement is. As for the defense, I agree. Anderson can pull off some higher level evasive defensive maneuvers against predictable strikes, where Conor has done it with trickier offense and still made it work well. Conor's spatial awareness and ability to read his opponents' attacks is even better from what I've seen from him.

Great post again: )

Youve been on fire in this thread!

 

[Boxingislife]

Both can be highly developed and worked on to become better but yeah he isn't the typical fighter. I know amateur and pro boxers that've been boxing for 20, even 30 years and they can't move like that. There's plenty of pros that can't move that well either. Anderson and Gustafsson are the only other guys in the UFC that I've seen with somewhat comparably graceful and fluid movement. These 3 guys are all light on their feet, and due to that even quicker than their opponents on them (fleet of foot), with that high level movement. I've seen a couple others move well but not like that, though TJ Dillashaw is an honorable mention.



Yeah. He knows what he's doing. I made that thread about it and sure enough most people thought that I was trying to nitpick and say that he got hit without being able to properly defend himself. That's the thing about rolling the head/chin on it's own (without the shoulder up), when most people see a fighter get touched dead on they automatically assume that it hurt or could've hurt the fighter, because all they do see is a fighter getting hit. They don't realize how much force was taken away before it's impact with the head roll and staying at the end of the punch.

You quoted that post before the edit lol

 

[Got GOAT]

Great post again: )

Youve been on fire in this thread!

My bad, I multiquote a lot. And thanks. You've brought up some interesting stuff yourself man. BTW, what did you think of Conor's usage of the bolo punch against Brimage? He actually hurt him with it too. Most fans and people that don't know it just figure he threw strange looking uppercuts.

 

[kmartje]

I'm a big conor fan. Live in England and will be flying to Dublin the next time he fights.

But jesus, the Nut hugging in this thread is unreal. Conors boxing is fantastic no doubt. But him and GOAT shouldn't be in the same sentence yet. Maybe in the future but he'd need to walk through Aldo, Mendes and Edgar to prove he can beat more than just strikers. Don't get me wrong I hope he does, but there's a lot of hurdles to jump first.

Also saying all Jones has is reach is ridiculous. Cormier closed the gap for 5 rounds and still lost 49-46. He's beat strikers and wrestlers, all pretty convincingly except Gustafsson.

 

[kmartje]

Also could boxingislife and Got GOAT be the first sherdog marriage??? Get a room for gods sake

 

[Got GOAT]

Also could boxingislife and Got GOAT be the first sherdog marriage??? Get a room for gods sake

Got jokes, huh? Maybe we'll use your mom's room and she can stay in bed. We'll hit her with the 'ole Russian two-on-one to start and then score some points while making sure she adequately uses her 'riding time' on us both.

 

[Naos]

You know when less than half of a 4 minute highlight is actual fight footage, it *might* be a bit too early to call someone GOAT.

Maybe it's because most of his fights end in the first.