Law Affirmative Action Abolished: U.S Supreme Court Outlaws Racial Discrimination In College Admissions.

[Bob Sapp]

So they werent kidding when they said they wont capitalize “white” anymore LMAO.

 

[High Altitude]

I feel bad for Asians. They get completely screwed when it comes to college admissions.


The application process should be 100% anonymous with not a single bit of information with respect to race.

 

[JDragon]

I feel bad for Asians. They get completely screwed when it comes to college admissions.


The application process should be 100% anonymous with not a single bit of information with respect to race.

The second you allow anything else than performance to count (i.e. anything else than performance in school as measured by grades and performance in e.g. entry exams/essays), you de facto cannot have a "blind" process. Extracurricular activities, if you count them, would re-introduce racial bias through the back door. Imagine the following: an assistant basketball coach; someone who loves to play the piano; a lacrosse player. All of those evoke certain racial stereotypes.

 

[Ramon Antonio]

Athletic merit - best performing athletes for the school. Donor merit - most demonstrated willingness to finance the school. Connection to the school merit - most points of contact.

When people say merit, they need to be a lot more specific than how it's currently used. Because merit can be applied within a wide variety of criteria.

You mean grades and test score merit. I really think people need to stop thinking that way. The appeal of someplace like Harvard is the connections and doors it opens. But it doesn't create those opportunities through grades and test scores. It creates them by admitting students who have these other things - like connections and money.

If Harvard admitted solely on the basis of grades and test scores, it would destroy the very reason that people want to go to Harvard in the 1st place. Because all of the monied and connected kids who aren't that smart would simply go elsewhere and their connections would go with them.

The thing is that many of the "It should be about merit" applicants know this. If they wanted to be recognized for their brains, they would all apply to Berkeley, MIT, Harvey Mudd, etc. But they apply to Harvard and Yale and such because they want the non-academic rewards, not the academic ones. And that's where they're lying to themselves. They want to attend Harvard for the connections and the opportunities but they think Harvard can do that by admitting people strictly on academic criteria without concern for connections and opportunities? Makes no sense.

As long as it's a private University they should be able to select however they seem fit. However, they shouldn't take stimulus checks paid by the tax payer then either.

 

[High Altitude]

The second you allow anything else than performance to count (i.e. anything else than performance in school as measured by grades and performance in e.g. entry exams/essays), you de facto cannot have a "blind" process. Extracurricular activities, if you count them, would re-introduce racial bias through the back door. Imagine the following: an assistant basketball coach; someone who loves to play the piano; a lacrosse player. All of those evoke certain racial stereotypes.

you create a very broad list which entails many, many different activities under one check.


Have you participated in at last one of the following and then list 30 different activities.


if yes, you check the one box that includes all 30.


you never mention any specifics.

 

[JDragon]

you create a very broad list which entails many, many different activities under one check.


Have you participated in at last one of the following and then list 30 different activities.


if yes, you check the one box that includes all 30.


you never mention any specifics.

Then what is the added value of that question?
Would you want to kick out students retroactively if they cannot prove it?

 

[High Altitude]

Then what is the added value of that question?
Would you want to kick out students retroactively if they cannot prove it?

It is just a way for applicants to show participation in extra curricular activities without giving away their race or sex.

 

[JDragon]

It is just a way for applicants to show participation in extra curricular activities without giving away their race or sex.

I think asking any kind of information from applicants needs to have a valid reason. And in my opinion, the most important factor should be anything that can predict academic success. If extracurricular activities do that, fine. I personally believe that school grades are probably the best determinant of success. So why ask applicants for their race? What they do in their free time? Cup size? GSP or Anderson? Whopper or Big Mac?

Changing social structure should take place much earlier. Support kids in kindergarten/Pre school to form proper language skills. Ensure they get support even if they do not come from privileged backgrounds. In short: equip them with the toolset to make it, not make the task easier for them.

Success in education should not be dependent (or not heavily dependent) on social background, or poverty will replicate itself.

 

[panamaican]

I think asking any kind of information from applicants needs to have a valid reason. And in my opinion, the most important factor should be anything that can predict academic success. If extracurricular activities do that, fine. I personally believe that school grades are probably the best determinant of success. So why ask applicants for their race? What they do in their free time? Cup size? GSP or Anderson? Whopper or Big Mac?

Changing social structure should take place much earlier. Support kids in kindergarten/Pre school to form proper language skills. Ensure they get support even if they do not come from privileged backgrounds. In short: equip them with the toolset to make it, not make the task easier for them.

Success in education should not be dependent (or not heavily dependent) on social background, or poverty will replicate itself.

Sure but, at least in the U.S., everyone who studies education knows that we haven't changed the social structure earlier and there doesn't seem much movement to do so. Fairly or unfairly, this leaves it to the colleges to try and separate out how much of any kid's academic performance is the result of superior intellectual ability or superior economic opportunity from birth.

 

[Higus]

I feel bad for Asians. They get completely screwed when it comes to college admissions.


The application process should be 100% anonymous with not a single bit of information with respect to race.

This needs some perspective. Asian kids aren't getting screwed out of college admissions, they are getting screwed out of elite college admissions.

 

[Higus]

That’s not how it works.

And if the doctor working on you only has a PhD, then you’ve got bigger problems.

Man, I wish I could retroactively "like" this post

 

[F1980]

I remember when I was in high school in my Spanish class. Over 30 students in the classroom and the teacher had some type of competition between the two halves of the class. There were only 2 Asian students out of the 30+.

They just happened to be the two smartest ones writing out spanish on the board. There were mexican kids in the class for fucks' sake and asian kids beat them out in their own language.

That's when I came to realize that asians are just smarter than everyone else. Then I looked it up and found out asians have the biggest brains and have the brains that weigh the most.

 

[esotamoc]

Sure but, at least in the U.S., everyone who studies education knows that we haven't changed the social structure earlier and there doesn't seem much movement to do so. Fairly or unfairly, this leaves it to the colleges to try and separate out how much of any kid's academic performance is the result of superior intellectual ability or superior economic opportunity from birth.

They should take economic situation into account and not race- thats rascist! If Black students are disproportionately disadvantaged economically then taking economic factors into account would benefit them more.

 

[Arkain2K]

This needs some perspective. Asian kids aren't getting screwed out of college admissions, they are getting screwed out of elite college admissions.

There is a push to revoke the anti-discrimination clause in the California constitution, so that all public colleges (UC/CSU) in California can go back to give preferential treatments to (or discrimiminate against) certain skin colors.

If that utterly-racist proposition passes, Asian-American students in our state will in fact get screwed in college admissions.

 

[Higus]

There is a push to revoke the anti-discrimination clause in the California constitution, so that all public colleges (UC/CSU) in California can go back to give preferential treatments to (or discrimiminate against) certain skin colors.

If that utterly-racist proposition passes, Asian-American students in our state will in fact get screwed in college admissions.

I doubt it. On paper, it sounds bad but in practice you would likely just be trading a system that produces a lot of societal racial inequality for one that produces somewhat less.

 

[Arkain2K]

Prop. 16: California's affirmative action measure fails
By Janie Har​

California voters have rejected an attempt to reinstate affirmative action programs in public hiring, contracting and college admissions, keeping a 1996 ban on the government granting preferential treatment based on race and gender.

Supporters of Proposition 16 had hoped to overturn the ban amid a national reckoning over racism following the deaths of Black Americans and other people of color by police.

They said affirmative action programs would expand opportunities for people who still face systemic racism and sexism in education and at work. Democratic vice presidential nominee Kamala Harris backs the effort.

Opponents said the government should treat every person equally, and never use race, ethnicity or gender to promote or discriminate against an individual. T

Before the vote on Tuesday, public polling had indicated that Proposition 16 was struggling, suggesting that voters may not be ready to repeal a quarter-century-old ban on affirmative action in public hiring, contracting and college admissions.

Supporters raised $31 million and included chambers of commerce, tech companies, celebrities such as Rita Moreno and Issa Rae and Democratic leaders. They say affirmative action programs are critical to undoing generations of systemic racism and sexism that holds back people of color and women and ran ads likening opponents to white supremacists.

In contrast, opponents raised $1.6 million, fueled by smaller donations from a grassroots network that includes Chinese immigrants worried that public universities will bypass Asian American applicants with higher scores and grades in favor of lower-scoring African American and Latino students. They say discrimination should stay illegal.

Opponents celebrated via Zoom on Tuesday, cheering their David-versus-Goliath fight as results rolled in. The measure was leading in San Francisco and Los Angeles counties, but failing in other large Southern California counties.

Ward Connerly, the African American businessman who led the 1996 campaign to end affirmative action and to prohibit the state from granting preferences or discriminating against a person due to race or gender, said the campaign was “heartened” by the results.

“The people are saying we want to be treated as equals,” said Connerly, 81.

Supporters did not respond to requests for comment, although they acknowledged before Election Day that the race would be tight. They said they did not have enough time to campaign on what they called a complicated issue.

Angel Chavez, 45, a San Diego tattoo artist and supporter of President Donald Trump, said he voted against the affirmative action measure.

“I’m Mexican. Yet, I’ve never felt racism,” he said. “If I don’t get a job, it’s because somebody was more qualified.”

In San Francisco, Harry Rochester, who voted for Joe Biden for president, said he was sad when voters banned affirmative action.

“Being an African American man in America, I don’t think I would have gotten as far as I have gotten today if it wasn’t for affirmative action,” said Rochester, 40.

Mark DiCamillo, director of a poll conducted by the Institute of Governmental Studies at the University of California, Berkeley, said he was puzzled by the lack of support for the measure.

The survey of likely voters released Oct. 26 indicated 49% were opposed and 38% were in favor. A poll by the Public Policy Institute of California indicated similar trends.

“My only explanation is that it’s fallen between the cracks,” he said.

Lawmakers placed Proposition 16 on the ballot following the death of George Floyd, a Black man, by Minneapolis police. They pointed to his death as clear evidence of the barriers that hold back Black Americans and other people of color.

The coronavirus pandemic also has highlighted stark inequities among minority groups in health care, education and wages.

California voters banned affirmative action in 1996 through a ballot measure that was pushed by the Republican governor at the time, Pete Wilson. The most populous state in the country is more diverse and less Republican than it was 24 years ago.

Latinos make up 39% of the state’s population, followed by white people at nearly 37%, Asian Americans at almost 17% and African Americans at under 7%. The percentage of Republicans in the state has dropped from 36% in 1996 to 24% now.

The U.S. Supreme Court has long outlawed racial quotas, but it has ruled that universities may use tailored programs to promote diversity.

https://www.ktvu.com/news/prop-16-californias-affirmative-action-measure-fails.amp

 

[12ga.]

I feel bad for Asian dudes. Discriminated against in college admissions and in College bars with the girls.

 

[Hog-train]

As long as it's a private University they should be able to select however they seem fit. However, they shouldn't take stimulus checks paid by the tax payer then either.

All these universities get billions in Federal tax payer money annually.

 

[machidafan99]

Nothing can stop the full force of Tiger Moms.

 

[panamaican]

For whatever reason the recent appeals court decision in Harvard's favor didn't make it into this thread yet.

https://www.wbur.org/edify/2020/11/12/appeals-court-clears-harvard-of-racial-bias-in-admissions