Social The University of California System Is Being Sued By Students Who Think The SAT And ACT Are Racist

I don't think it's fair to compare students of unequal means using the same test. Every comparison that can impact a kid's future should be made on an ''apples to apples'' level as much as possible. In Canada, this is at the provincial level. In the U.S., because you fund your schools with municipal property tax dollars, that would be at the school district level.

Or you could change the way you fund schools. If schools were federally funded I would have no problem with a federal test like the SAT or ACT.
It's not about what's fair. It's about the standards a college is willing to accept. If a college is fine with lowering their standards to allow people who can't divide or write a sentence that's on them. But then again we want to make productive citizens and if you lower your standards for one particular area that area over the years is going to get worse and worse.
 
It's not about what's fair. It's about the standards a college is willing to accept. If a college is fine with lowering their standards to allow people who can't divide or write a sentence that's on them. But then again we want to make productive citizens and if you lower your standards for one particular area that area over the years is going to get worse and worse.

The decision of how to fund schools is (or ought to be) about what's fair. Like I said, if you funded school districts evenly on a federal level I would have no problem with a federal standard. But the very idea of using the same standard to judge people with very different lots in life that is beyond their control is ignominious to me. Comparisons that directly affect a kid's future should be made on an ''apples to apples'' basis as is possible.

I doubt the sincerity of the bolded if you disagree with what I'm proposing.
 
The decision of how to fund schools is (or ought to be) about what's fair. Like I said, if you funded school districts evenly on a federal level I would have no problem with a federal standard. But the very idea of using the same standard to judge people with very different lots in life that is beyond their control is ignominious to me. Comparisons that directly affect a kid's future should be made on an ''apples to apples'' basis as is possible.

I doubt the sincerity of the bolded if you disagree with what I'm proposing.
All schools do receive federal money. I also have no problem with school funding being done statewide as opposed to districts. I say statewide because a school in Mississippi or Texas wouldn't need as much money as a school in Cali dude to the cost of living.
 
All schools do receive federal money. I also have no problem with school funding being done statewide as opposed to districts. I say statewide because a school in Mississippi or Texas wouldn't need as much money as a school in Cali dude to the cost of living.

Bolded: you know what I mean. Statewide funding and testing may end up making the most sense for the reason you point out. But you would likely have to have some sort of a transfer program because Mississippi and the like wouldn't fare so well on their own.

In Canada, which does have such a system, I wouldn't have any problem with an SAT/ACT type test, although we don't have one.
 




A group of students, educators and advocates filed a lawsuit Tuesday against the University of California to stop the institution from requiring applicants from submitting standardized test scores it calls discriminatory as part of its admissions process.

The 105-page lawsuit, filed in the Alameda County by Public Counsel, Scheper Kim & Harris LLP and others on behalf of the plaintiffs, claims the SAT and ACT tests are "demonstrably discriminatory against the state's least privileged students," specifically minority and low-income applicants, and that the university's use of the tests in its admissions process constitutes illegal discrimination and violates the Equal Protection Clause of the California Constitution.

The importance of the standardized tests in the admissions process has spawned a test-preparation industry of tutors and cram schools that gives applicants from more affluent families a competitive advantage over poorer students, the lawyers argue.

"The UC admissions process ... creates formidable barriers to access to public higher education for deserving students from low-income families, students from historically underrepresented racial and ethnic groups and students with disabilities," the lawsuit said. "The requirement that all applicants submit SAT or ACT scores systematically and unlawfully denies talented and qualified students with less accumulated advantage a fair opportunity to pursue higher education."

Mark Rosenbaum, an attorney with Public Counsel, said these standardized tests damage the futures of tens of thousands of students a year.

"The UC system has no more constitutionally sacred obligation than to ensure equal access to all of California's young persons, to serve as a beacon of hope and opportunity," he said in a statement published on Public Counsel's Instagram account. "By its reliance on the SAT and ACT, the UC system subverts its mission and makes its campuses havens for concentrated privilege."

Lead plaintiff Kawika Smith, a black 17-year-old high school student, is a rape survivor and a murder witness who has suffered from house and food insecurity for much of his life. According to the lawsuit, these experiences put him at a disadvantage to perform well on the SAT and his current score makes it unlikely he will gain admission to any UC campus, despite being an active student advocate and organizer in South Los Angeles.

In a statement, Smith said the SAT does not take into consideration any of his life experiences and though he is scheduled to take the test again in December, he expects he will be attending a school out of state that does not require the "flawed" SAT.

"Standardized test like the SAT reminds me that racism and classism have only become more sophisticated," he said. "Instead of straight-out saying people of color and underprivileged people aren't allowed, a test is in place to illegitimately justify why such groups of people are not suitable for the UC system."

The lawsuit follows a letter sent to UC officials in October from Public Counsel, Scheper Kim & Harris and others demanding the university instruct all admissions officers to stop requiring the standardized tests scores or they'd take it to court.

College Board, which operates the SAT, rebuked the accusations as "false," stating it works to "shine a light on inequalities" in education.

"Regrettably, the letter and the lawsuit contain a number of false assertions and is counterproductive to the fact-based, data-driven discussion that students, parents and educators deserve," College Board spokesman Zachary Goldberg said in a statement.
 
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the SAT isn't racist, real life isn't Dawson's Creek, nobody speaks IRL in the manner the Vocab sections of the tests are conducted in

nobody
 
i’m white and the SAT is the only reason i got into college. i had horrible grades in high school but i scored near-perfect on the SAT so i was able to get into a good university.

inversely, it is possible to get into a good college with a bad SAT score, you just need good grades.

however, if somebody has bad grades and low SAT score, then they wont get into a good college in the first place. Grades and test-scores are both related to economic status and other social factors, which often depend in some way upon race.

what i’m saying is, if they want a truly level playing field they need to get rid of grades and tests. But then how would colleges determine who to admit?
 
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“I’m so upset because we have a nation of kids that are expecting to get paid and live their life just for showing up,” she said to WPTV, “and it’s not real.”

Imagine young people growing up with social media and daily seeing a tiny, entitled slice of kids born into wealthy families who never have to get a real job. And wanting a little piece of that for themselves... Crazy! What a curve ball!
 
i’m white and the SAT is the only reason i got into college. i had horrible grades in high school but i scored near-perfect on the SAT so i was able to get into a good university.

inversely, it is possible to get into a good college with a bad SAT score, you just need good grades.

however, if somebody has bad grades and low SAT score, then they wont get into a good college in the first place. Grades and test-scores are both related to economic status and other social factors, which often depend in some way upon race.

what i’m saying is, if they want a truly level playing field they need to get rid of grades and tests. But then how would colleges determine who to admit?
By % of the population adjusted for "oppression" of course. How else?
 
What I want to know is what will happen if they get in without doing the SAT or ACT? How will they pass the university? Will they have to make it easier to graduate the school? And then what happens? What if these people want doctorates, but it's too hard for them? Will they have to make it easier to get phDs?
College classes are already being graded on a curve.
 
Imagine young people growing up with social media and daily seeing a tiny, entitled slice of kids born into wealthy families who never have to get a real job. And wanting a little piece of that for themselves... Crazy! What a curve ball!

What a stupid argument, there's always going to be people richer than you, always going to be assholes who don't have to work, if you didn't get lucky enough to be born into that then tough shit. Those people are like 0.0001% of the population.
 
Will they still keep common core and standardized tests?

Now, I agree that we tend to go overboard in regards to testing in the US.

However, having school districts across the country take the same exam (or curriculum) is a good way to find out if your students are learning at the same pace as kids in other districts. What needs to be improved/what is going well.

Look at it this way:

I've taught at a bunch of schools both in the US and abroad. Quite a few of them were very independent within their curriculum and pedagogy. Teachers had complete autonomy and independence in how they conducted their classes. So, all parents had to gauge how well their children were doing was their kid's report card.

It didn't take long for some teachers to simply give their students "As" across the board and then pat themselves on the back and say "Look how great of a teacher I am because all my kids got "As".

On the other hand, I've also had colleagues who created "No student earns an 'A' in my class" rule. This made me scratch my head. After all, if you give a pop quiz to check if the kids did the reading assignment, and a child correctly answers all 10 questions.....how is a 10/10 a B?

Will the students within the article still have some kind of formal testing procedure to ensure to the child, parent, district, and colleges are learning what they need to know?

Are we going to be having high school graduates with 4.0s but:

- Confuse They're, There, and Their?
- Not know the details of the lead up and end of WWII?
- Be unable to solve this word problem: Sandra read 5 books, Deacon read 6 books and Breanna read 7 books. One book was read by all three children, but every other book was different. How many different books did the children read?
- Know the difference between a proton and a neutron?

I can't answer any of those questions but I can tell you why Jones had gyno a few years back.
 
Are we sure this has nothing to do with teachers not wanting to be judged on how good bad they are at teaching.

Get rid of testing by blaming the bad scores on anything but bad teachers
 
The decision of how to fund schools is (or ought to be) about what's fair. Like I said, if you funded school districts evenly on a federal level I would have no problem with a federal standard. But the very idea of using the same standard to judge people with very different lots in life that is beyond their control is ignominious to me. Comparisons that directly affect a kid's future should be made on an ''apples to apples'' basis as is possible.

I doubt the sincerity of the bolded if you disagree with what I'm proposing.
That's going to be a hard sell in the US. Lots of the worst performing school districts get more funding than some of the better performing ones.
 
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What a stupid argument, there's always going to be people richer than you, always going to be assholes who don't have to work, if you didn't get lucky enough to be born into that then tough shit. Those people are like 0.0001% of the population.

When kids grow up in a society that condones people possessing wealth they didn't labor for it stands to reason that those kids will be apathetic about working for their wealth.

Give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day
Teach a man to fish and he'll eat for a lifetime
Give a man a lifetime's worth of fish
And the guy who has to get up early and fish every day will say "fuck this" and become a soldier in the revolution
 
Why not be your own man and contribute your own thoughts on the actual subject matter, rather than concerning about what the liberals and conservatives think?

See my sig below? That applies to you.
 
ours is a world where one can be whatever one desires to be, regardless of talent, skill or intelligence.

"You've listed as preferred occupations 'jet pilot, astronaut, wall street tycoon, company CEO and rapper, is that right?"
"Yeah, cause I'm good at all that shit."
"Any formal training."
"Oh I see, now y'all gonna racist on me."
*lawsuit LOOMS
 
Having standards is racist now. Listen kids, the Ivy League isn't for everyone. Some people should go to trade school rather than getting another useless women's studies degree.
 
Having standards is racist now. Listen kids, the Ivy League isn't for everyone. Some people should go to trade school rather than getting another useless women's studies degree.

Look buddy, useless women have as much right to be studied as the useful ones.
 
I'm not too worried about the UC system, it's hardAF to get into a UC school currently. They are attracting great students, very competitive admissions. It's the best university system in the world I believe.
 
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